[Politics] Brexit

[Westdene Seagull]

Firstly: mindreader.
Secondly: following your logic answer me this. Why is Brussels telling us what to do any different from London telling us what to do?

Ah bless, Plooks the 6th former is back.

Firstly, I'm as much of a mindreader as the remainers that keep telling me I voted leave because I'm racist and xenophobic ..... oh and a little Englander.

Secondly, the UK electors can thow out a government. I challenge you to throw out the European Commission, or the European Council or the European President. But this has been highlighted to you before Plooks ..... you were just too stupid to take it in. *** awaits the inevitable references to the House of Lords and the Queen ***

 

[nicko31]

It's certainly not what they predicted, trouble is Brexit will be blamed for absolutely everything for many years to come, people will never hear the end of it.

Even if Brexit is now cancelled tremendous damage has been done to our reputation in the world. Some of the remainer forecasts were silly as things don't happen instantly, but the reality is its cost us £60B already, versus not going on this mad experiment. Despite the rise of populism in Europe, little surprise no one is looking to copy our mistakes

1 - nil to Putin

 

[Stat Brother]

Are you serious? Months of announcements about what would happen immediately with the British economy i.e. meltdown, huge increase in unemployment etc. All pretty much untrue and contested at the time.

That's true there could be quite a blow back in the first week of April when the world keeps turning.

It's certainly not what they predicted, trouble is Brexit will be blamed for absolutely everything for many years to come, people will never hear the end of it.

It is a rather big thing to happen which does effect pretty much every single aspect of the UK life

 

[WATFORD zero]

As the current choices stand - May's awful deal vs no deal, yes, I believe we should go for no deal ..... still. Now if we can get a better deal ( and yes that's like having unicorns being riden by fairies and guided by elves at the bottom of your garden ! ) then I may be tempted to change my mind.

Thanks for that.

So, if we were to go no deal, do you believe what the various manufacturing, agriculture and medical bodies are saying about the effects and that it would only be sustainable short term before we would have to rejoin ? (and I nearly forgot Pallets )

Or do you believe that all of these things have been overstated and that the issues raised will be resolved in a certain time period (and any idea what that time period would be ? and what would be the long term effects ?

*edit* I'm genuinely trying to understand your motivation, because unlike a lot of other 'no dealers' on here I do believe you understand the implications.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Thanks for that.

So, if we were to go no deal, do you believe what the various manufacturing, agriculture and medical bodies are saying about the effects and that it would only be sustainable short term before we would have to rejoin ? (and I nearly forgot Pallets )

Or do you believe that all of these things have been overstated and that the issues raised will be resolved in a certain time period (and any idea what that time period would be ? and what would be the long term effects ?

I believe that the effects of a no deal have been overstated ( and using that word is an understatement ). Both sides, the UK and the EU, currently have to be seen not to back down. Yet both sides have much to lose should no deal happen ( we can argue till the cows come home who has most to lose, and have ).

The harsh reality is that neither the UK nor the EU can afford a 'no deal' for very long and neither wants one long term. My guess is that we'll go no deal by default and all of a sudden new 'agreements' will happen but be fudged up as just legal 're-wording'. It will go to the wire.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I believe that the effects of a no deal have been overstated ( and using that word is an understatement ). Both sides, the UK and the EU, currently have to be seen not to back down. Yet both sides have much to lose should no deal happen ( we can argue till the cows come home who has most to lose, and have ).

The harsh reality is that neither the UK nor the EU can afford a 'no deal' for very long and neither wants one long term. My guess is that we'll go no deal by default and all of a sudden new 'agreements' will happen but be fudged up as just legal 're-wording'. It will go to the wire.

So you see it primarily as a negotiating tool rather than an end in itself

 

[Billy the Fish]

I read a piece the other day claiming that it encourages some of the bacteria it is supposed to kill, to form into a cyst which is harder to eradicate and is thought to be responsible for the five times higher rates of Salmonella infection in the US compared to the EU. For the UK, if we started experiencing US rates of infection, it would cost the NHS and hit national productivity. Cheap Chicken could be expensive.

Fair enough. Maybe I'll just stick to the hormone fed beef then!

 

[Westdene Seagull]

So you see it primarily as a negotiating tool rather than an end in itself

Indeed. But you have to be prepared to use that 'tool' if necessary ( otherwise it's pointless having it ) ..... I think as things stand it's necessary to use it.

I guess a good analogy is Trident ..... nobody wants us to use it but some argue it needs to be there 'just in case' and to focus enemies minds. We're never really going to use it though. *Cavet - I don't think we should renew Trident.

 

[Rodney Thomas]

I believe that the effects of a no deal have been overstated ( and using that word is an understatement ). Both sides, the UK and the EU, currently have to be seen not to back down. Yet both sides have much to lose should no deal happen ( we can argue till the cows come home who has most to lose, and have ).

The harsh reality is that neither the UK nor the EU can afford a 'no deal' for very long and neither wants one long term. My guess is that we'll go no deal by default and all of a sudden new 'agreements' will happen but be fudged up as just legal 're-wording'. It will go to the wire.

Seeing as were all being honest now (it’s really refreshing on this thread), can I ask that as you acknowledge that no deal means both us and the EU can afford a no deal scenario do you have much to lose yourself? I ask this as I personally have a lot to lose and thus I’m possibly (and probably) more pro remain than if my life had than a different path to date. Do you have much to lose personally by all this? (This is not a dig, I have no more right to decide brexit than you, I’m just interested)

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Seeing as were all being honest now (it’s really refreshing on this thread), can I ask that as you acknowledge that no deal means both us and the EU can afford a no deal scenario do you have much to lose yourself? I ask this as I personally have a lot to lose and thus I’m possibly (and probably) more pro remain than if my life had than a different path to date. Do you have much to lose personally by all this? (This is not a dig, I have no more right to decide brexit than you, I’m just interested)

Without wishing to sound like a politician - yes and no. I've already lost my job so it's rather academic to me currently if my job was at risk. That's the no bit. Yes is because I wish to sell my house ( no job to pay for it ! ) and buy a nice place France - found the place for 63k euros leaving me with rather a lot of money in equity to live for quite a number of years. Obviously awaiting the outcome of the current mess. My parents also have a place in France. So yes, I have something to lose - even if it's only a dream. Despite that I still strongly believe the UK is better off outside the EU.

 

[ManOfSussex]

I believe that the effects of a no deal have been overstated ( and using that word is an understatement ). Both sides, the UK and the EU, currently have to be seen not to back down. Yet both sides have much to lose should no deal happen ( we can argue till the cows come home who has most to lose, and have ).

The harsh reality is that neither the UK nor the EU can afford a 'no deal' for very long and neither wants one long term. My guess is that we'll go no deal by default and all of a sudden new 'agreements' will happen but be fudged up as just legal 're-wording'. It will go to the wire.

With the bad blood caused, diplomatic and reputational damage done to The UK, coupled with the political chaos here of no deal happening (on top of the everyday practical realities) it will be most unedifying. The worse it is, the less leverage we'll have. It's mutually assured damage, but it's going to hurt us the most, we caused it and it'll take a generation diplomatically to recover from, on top of the rest. The worse it is, the more we'll have to beg.

On top of everything else, how do you think putting at risk an international peace treaty makes us look as a country and what that does to our reputation?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Are you serious? Months of announcements about what would happen immediately with the British economy i.e. meltdown, huge increase in unemployment etc. All pretty much untrue and contested at the time.

How are those false promises? They are warnings of a no deal which hasn't happened yet. You need to find better examples of false promises.

 

[Stat Brother]

Indeed. But you have to be prepared to use that 'tool' if necessary ( otherwise it's pointless having it ) ..... I think as things stand it's necessary to use it.

I guess a good analogy is Trident ..... nobody wants us to use it but some argue it needs to be there 'just in case' and to focus enemies minds. We're never really going to use it though. *Cavet - I don't think we should renew Trident.

That's a moot point as we won't be able to afford and we won't have anything left to defend.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

We couldn't veto either of the directives I mentioned. They were passed on majority voting.

The Work-Life Balance Directive allows for more flexible working for parents and carers.

The Transparent and Predictable Working Conditions Directive is more complex but at a high level it gives new employees more rights.

IMHO both are good directives but that wasn't the point I was making as well you know.

I agree with that they're good directives but how do they differ from the 2004 directives? Why would we want to veto something that has been passed for a country's benefit?
There are different laws being passed all the time, of which some are mandatory ie no veto, and some we have a choice and we have a veto.
My point is we are not being ruled by the EU, nor forced into a Federal Europe.

 

[nicko31]

Indeed. But you have to be prepared to use that 'tool' if necessary ( otherwise it's pointless having it ) ..... I think as things stand it's necessary to use it.

I guess a good analogy is Trident ..... nobody wants us to use it but some argue it needs to be there 'just in case' and to focus enemies minds. We're never really going to use it though. *Cavet - I don't think we should renew Trident.

You basically you want us to say. Give us what we want or we'll shoot ourselves in the head and you guys will get covered in blood

Clearly you're not one of the 17m in this nation with less than £100 in savings, you can afford to ride it out if it all goes t*ts up. We go out with no deal and a lot people will lose their shirts. And that's before we look at the geo-political consequences

It is Brexit at any cost, its a cult now, nothing else...

 

[Stat Brother]

It is Brexit at any cost, its a cult now, nothing else...

You need to run that through spellcheck, I think you have an erroneous L but are missing an N.

 

[Springal]

I clearly don't have a heart then. What a load of B011ocks !!!! So she has to register for settled status .... a quick and easy process according to many of those that have done it. Really, that video is political claptrap.

Ignoring the fact the current set up for this is crap.... history tells us the government are pretty shit with this kind of data too.

I thought this news story was pretty apt - https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/03/06/home_office_windrush_data_slammed_mps/

 

[Baldseagull]

We couldn't veto either of the directives I mentioned. They were passed on majority voting.

The Work-Life Balance Directive allows for more flexible working for parents and carers.

The Transparent and Predictable Working Conditions Directive is more complex but at a high level it gives new employees more rights.

IMHO both are good directives but that wasn't the point I was making as well you know.

When were these voted on? As far as I can tell they are both still proposals from the Commission.

 

[nicko31]

You need to run that through spellcheck, I think you have an erroneous L but are missing an N.

Speaking of that adjective. Channel 4 News tonight, Part 3 investigation into Aaron Banks focuses on his role in the 2016 Referendum and the dark money.

Monday's part 1 was quite revealing.


https://youtu.be/gzlyXAKHkno

 

[ManOfSussex]

I read a piece the other day claiming that it encourages some of the bacteria it is supposed to kill, to form into a cyst which is harder to eradicate and is thought to be responsible for the five times higher rates of Salmonella infection in the US compared to the EU. For the UK, if we started experiencing US rates of infection, it would cost the NHS and hit national productivity. Cheap Chicken could be expensive.

I read in The Times earlier, per 1000 people, it says The US has 4X the amount of campylobacter/food poisoning than The UK does and 20X the cases of Salmonella.