[Politics] Brexit

[jaghebby]

More people = more cars, more cars = more pollution, that is how I see it anyway.
Be interested to see whether pollution levels have actually increased or decreased over the last say 10 years in the South East

I think you will find more people + more prosperity = more cars etc. The risk with brexiteers is the prosperity bit!

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

I am going insane over this accursed referendum now.

Everytime I turn on the radio or TV news.... "A row has broken out over claims ...."


FFS. Stop lying the lot of you.


I really want to scrawl ' Cameron and Boris are liars ' in blood over my ballot paper now.


Thank the heavens we've only got 2 1/2 more weeks of all this crap.

 

[pb21]

More people = more cars, more cars = more pollution, that is how I see it anyway.
Be interested to see whether pollution levels have actually increased or decreased over the last say 10 years in the South East

Just as well that you aren't in any kind of position of influencing policy then!

Better cars due to regulation (EU or whatever) = Less pollution than would otherwise be = Healthier people than would otherwise be = Less demand on the health service than would otherwise be = Better for everyone

 

[LlcoolJ]

I am going insane over this accursed referendum now.

Everytime I turn on the radio or TV news.... "A row has broken out over claims ...."


FFS. Stop lying the lot of you.


I really want to scrawl ' Cameron and Boris are liars ' in blood over my ballot paper now.


Thank the heavens we've only got 2 1/2 more weeks of all this crap.

Amen. And I've already voted so whatever they say is pointless. Not that anything those two complete BELLENDS could ever say would influence me on anything.

 

[Spiros]

Maybe we wouldn't, maybe we would. We can't even try at the moment. Consider this, if we were attempting to do a deal with China there would be two parties - us and China. The EU attempts to do a deal with China then it needs to try and balance the requirements and desires of 28 nations ( many pulling in different directions ). I know which I would think could be concluded the easiest.

I thought that was because the EU actually negotiates with China rather than just bending over and taking what's offered to get a deal? Our politicians don't exactly have a shining record when it comes to standing up to the likes of China

My concern is that the Leavers don't have a consistent answer for our trade situation after leaving. Will it be Norway-style (ie get free trade but still have to accept free movement and EU rules), or will it be Canada-style, or will it be WTO style with tariffs, etc? At the moment I fell like I know what I'm getting if I vote Remain but all I know about voting Leave is that it will be 'something else' and that something varies according to which Leave campaigner is talking

 

[Jim in the West]

In Athens and they are all asking us to vote out. They hate the EU here

You may have missed the piece by Yanis Varoufakis (former Finance Minister, and leader of Syriza) in the Guardian on Saturday....a hero for many Greeks fighting against austerity. He is desperate for the UK to Remain:

Dear Britain,
Last year I tried, and failed, to convince the EU top brass to behave humanely toward my long-suffering country. Now, I am writing to you with an odd plea: that you stay in this same EU – yes, the one that crushed our Athens spring and has been behaving abominably ever since. Some will deploy tabloid logic to explain my plea (“Varoufakis wants the UK to stay in to pay for Greece’s bailouts”). Others will accuse me of abandoning the fight for restoring democracy. Yet I trust that your Pythonesque appreciation of paradox will pierce through the seeming contradiction. The reason I want you to stay in is that voting to leave will not get you “out”. Rather than escaping the EU, Brexit will keep you tied to a Europe that is nastier, sadder and increasingly dangerous to itself, to you, indeed to the rest of the planet.

The masters of the City will never allow a new Boris Johnson government to even think of leaving the EU’s single market, despite Michael Gove’s musings. Which means that all the gadgets sold in your shops will have to abide by standards made in Brussels, your environmental protection rules will be drawn up in Brussels, and market regulation will be (yes you guessed it) determined in Brussels. So, even after Brexit, the majority of your laws will be written in the same dreary Brussels corridors as now, except you will have no say in their shaping. With your democracy as truncated as it is now, you will remain stuck, albeit less powerful, in a Europe whose fragmentation Brexit will accelerate. The EU is undoubtedly bureaucratic, opaque and contemptuous of the parliamentarianism that you and I cherish. You may, therefore, conclude that speeding up the EU’s fragmentation is not such a bad idea. Think again! Will its disintegration cause progressive democrats to rise up across Europe, empower their parliaments, usher in the forces of light and hope, and foster harmonious cooperation on the continent? Not likely.

The EU’s fragmentation will divide the continent in at least two parts, the major fault line running down the Rhine and across the Alps. In the north east, deflation will rule, with millions of working poor Germans, Poles and so on becoming unemployed. In the Latin part, the order of the day will be inflation with unemployment. Only political monsters will crawl out of this fault line, spreading xenophobic misanthropy everywhere and ensuring, through competitive devaluations, that you will also be drawn into the ensuing vortex.

This is why I am pleading with you to stay in our terrible EU. Europe’s democrats need you. And you need us. Together we have a chance of reviving democratic sovereignty across Europe. It won’t be easy. But it is worth a try. When I was student, a close friend who hated parties nevertheless never missed one just so that he would have something to bitch about the day after. Please do not be like him. Please stay in the EU with enthusiasm for our common cause: to take arms against a sea of troubles, and, by opposing, end them.

 

[5ways]

You may have missed the piece by Yanis Varoufakis (former Finance Minister, and leader of Syriza) in the Guardian on Saturday....a hero for many Greeks fighting against austerity. He is desperate for the UK to Remain:

Dear Britain,
Last year I tried, and failed, to convince the EU top brass to behave humanely toward my long-suffering country. Now, I am writing to you with an odd plea: that you stay in this same EU – yes, the one that crushed our Athens spring and has been behaving abominably ever since. Some will deploy tabloid logic to explain my plea (“Varoufakis wants the UK to stay in to pay for Greece’s bailouts”). Others will accuse me of abandoning the fight for restoring democracy. Yet I trust that your Pythonesque appreciation of paradox will pierce through the seeming contradiction. The reason I want you to stay in is that voting to leave will not get you “out”. Rather than escaping the EU, Brexit will keep you tied to a Europe that is nastier, sadder and increasingly dangerous to itself, to you, indeed to the rest of the planet.

The masters of the City will never allow a new Boris Johnson government to even think of leaving the EU’s single market, despite Michael Gove’s musings. Which means that all the gadgets sold in your shops will have to abide by standards made in Brussels, your environmental protection rules will be drawn up in Brussels, and market regulation will be (yes you guessed it) determined in Brussels. So, even after Brexit, the majority of your laws will be written in the same dreary Brussels corridors as now, except you will have no say in their shaping. With your democracy as truncated as it is now, you will remain stuck, albeit less powerful, in a Europe whose fragmentation Brexit will accelerate. The EU is undoubtedly bureaucratic, opaque and contemptuous of the parliamentarianism that you and I cherish. You may, therefore, conclude that speeding up the EU’s fragmentation is not such a bad idea. Think again! Will its disintegration cause progressive democrats to rise up across Europe, empower their parliaments, usher in the forces of light and hope, and foster harmonious cooperation on the continent? Not likely.

The EU’s fragmentation will divide the continent in at least two parts, the major fault line running down the Rhine and across the Alps. In the north east, deflation will rule, with millions of working poor Germans, Poles and so on becoming unemployed. In the Latin part, the order of the day will be inflation with unemployment. Only political monsters will crawl out of this fault line, spreading xenophobic misanthropy everywhere and ensuring, through competitive devaluations, that you will also be drawn into the ensuing vortex.

This is why I am pleading with you to stay in our terrible EU. Europe’s democrats need you. And you need us. Together we have a chance of reviving democratic sovereignty across Europe. It won’t be easy. But it is worth a try. When I was student, a close friend who hated parties nevertheless never missed one just so that he would have something to bitch about the day after. Please do not be like him. Please stay in the EU with enthusiasm for our common cause: to take arms against a sea of troubles, and, by opposing, end them.

Good points. This country has never shirked shared challenges before and shouldn't now.

 

[beorhthelm]

Good points. This country has never shirked shared challenges before and shouldn't now.

not really. our British Standard was the benchmark for standards before the EU, environmental protection is not governed by EU outside the EU and neither are market regulations. tell me, do Chinese importers or New York bankers have to match EU rules on environment or markets to do business with the world or the EU? no.

the rest is frankly a letter for leaving, we shouldnt be blackmailed to stay just to hold together a fracturing and imploding political and monetary union. really this highlights why so many international institutions want us to remain, to hold together the EU project, he's is just being more open about this. they could have been open to reform, they could have offered Cameron a proper deal to repatriate powers and halt the failure. they made their choice, they want to continue the project to further integration. we must now make our choice, join their project or leave to lead our own path.

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

Good points. This country has never shirked shared challenges before and shouldn't now.

Hardly a convincing argument to vote remain.

VOTE FOR THE EU, IT'S TERRIBLE!

It also is not our fault that the EU has caused many of the problems we now see today. Many of us have passionately argued against the way the EU has developed for forty years.

Sent from the boot of Lingard

 

[East Preston Gull]

In Athens and they are all asking us to vote out. They hate the EU here

And Italy. My cousin in Rome tells me there is an Italians for Brexit group.
Let's save Europe again!

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

 

[Two Professors]

Let's face it,if we don't vote leave the Brussels Mafia will never change a bit.With the slap round the face a Brexit causes,they might just wake up enough to offer us a deal they should have done when Camerbuffoon tried.Two years should be long enough for anybody to sort out an amicable divorce,or trial reconciliation.Well, apart from the people attempting to build a new airport for Berlin.Any news on the Remain front about that £670,000,000 fraud loss from 2015 yet?

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

My concern is that the Leavers don't have a consistent answer for our trade situation after leaving. Will it be Norway-style (ie get free trade but still have to accept free movement and EU rules), or will it be Canada-style, or will it be WTO style with tariffs, etc?

The remain campaign can reassure you with the status quo.

How on earth is it possible for the leave campaign to explain just what kind of agreements would be in place when they are not a government, yet alone a unified political force. Quite frankly, it is absurd that you would find that to be a problem.

Sent from the boot of Lingard

 

[sir albion]

Vote out for our independence and not to mention the other countries who are in dire straights around Europe...

 

[KZNSeagull]

Sky News reporting that they have uncovered evidence that huge amounts of assets have been taken out of the UK amid fears of the results of the referendum. 55bn quid left the UK in March alone, the largest amount of money to leave the UK since the financial crisis.

Make of that what you will.

 

[Wrong-Direction]

I summed the whole thing up to a mate yesterday on how I feel..
" imagine standing next to two pools that are both shark infested and someone saying, "yeah but you have to choose one" We're f***ed either way people!

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

[sir albion]

Let's face it,if we don't vote leave the Brussels Mafia will never change a bit.With the slap round the face a Brexit causes,they might just wake up enough to offer us a deal they should have done when Camerbuffoon tried.Two years should be long enough for anybody to sort out an amicable divorce,or trial reconciliation.Well, apart from the people attempting to build a new airport for Berlin.Any news on the Remain front about that £670,000,000 fraud loss from 2015 yet?

Every country should keep its individuality and control its own borders etc etc....The EU is run by Unknown people and unelected.
It's a failed project that will inevitably fall flat on its face.Its run by Germany,France and Brussels and other countries don't get a look in end of.

 

[Spiros]

The remain campaign can reassure you with the status quo.

How on earth is it possible for the leave campaign to explain just what kind of agreements would be in place when they are not a government, yet alone a unified political force. Quite frankly, it is absurd that you would find that to be a problem.

Sent from the boot of Lingard

Why is it absurd to want to know what they propose to go for? On this subject all I know is what they are against, not what they are in favour of. If they're looking to negotiate a deal based upon restricting movement into the UK and not having to comply with all EU legislation that is totally different to them proposing that we'll go for an 'easier' deal along the same lines of Norway. The former is a true difference to what we'll get if we remain whereas the latter is very similar to what we have now except we'll be excluded when the rules get discussed.

So no, I don't expect them to predict what agreements will be in place, but I would like them to say what they want to go for. It's called having a strategy

 

[sir albion]

Sky News reporting that they have uncovered evidence that huge amounts of assets have been taken out of the UK amid fears of the results of the referendum. 55bn quid left the UK in March alone, the largest amount of money to leave the UK since the financial crisis.

Make of that what you will.

Good as we only want investment that has faith in our economy if we leave....just hope they are not allowed back after the referendum

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

I summed the whole thing up to a mate yesterday on how I feel..
" imagine standing next to two pools that are both shark infested and someone saying, "yeah but you have to choose one" We're f***ed either way people!

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

Whichever group of tories wins this is going to have a massively difficult job persuading the ~48% that didn't agree with them that we are not heading for disaster.

 

[sir albion]

Why is it absurd to want to know what they propose to go for? On this subject all I know is what they are against, not what they are in favour of. If they're looking to negotiate a deal based upon restricting movement into the UK and not having to comply with all EU legislation that is totally different to them proposing that we'll go for an 'easier' deal along the same lines of Norway. The former is a true difference to what we'll get if we remain whereas the latter is very similar to what we have now except we'll be excluded when the rules get discussed.

So no, I don't expect them to predict what agreements will be in place, but I would like them to say what they want to go for. It's called having a strategy

The point is all the bumpkins want us "in" and will say anything bad regarding our re negotiations....it's blatantly obvious we will get the cream of the crop when negotiating.

It's a referendum not a election and nobody in the "out" camp can say what will happen as its impossible to forecast.

Also money shouldn't come into the referendum

Family comes before money?
Country comes before money?