[Politics] Brexit

[cunning fergus]

The hypocrisy of Cameron. This lowlife would go to any level to win the referendum.

To be fair they Cameron and Khan are as bad as each other.

Cameron must think the electorate are imbeciles after his monumental hatchet job on Khan's association with terrorist sympathisers only a couple of weeks ago.

Khan is as bad because his association today with Cameron is two fingers to Corbyn, who would not dare to share a platform with Cameron to preserve his political integrity.

So, the only conclusion that anyone with sense can draw is that both men's own personal ambition and ego overrides their commitment to their supposed political ideology.

They deserve each other.

 

[pastafarian]

A net benefit to the Treasury?

"the oft-made argument that migration makes a positive contribution to the Treasury and thus contributes to reducing the UK fiscal deficit is clearly not correct in respect of migration overall"

"In 2014/15, the cost to the Exchequer of immigration was £17 billion
The cost of European immigration was over £1 billion"

http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/press-release/448

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

A net benefit to the Treasury?

I would say no.............in this or any country.

 

[sir albion]

Looks as if the support for Brexit is falling in the polls. I guess they are going to accentuate the anti-immigration angle because having lost the economic argument the anti-immigration issue is all they have got left. Looks like the Remain In will walk this referendum.

The thing is us "outers" are not that interested in the economic side as unlike you "inners" we want our independence and sovereignty saved as well as our identity.This far out weighs the clap trap bull crap of economics that the "in" crowd always bleat on about as that's all they care about.

Us "outers" know we will prosper out of the EU as we always have done and we unlike the "inners" are proud of our country and strong minded to succeed away from this hideous EU organisation that favours the more wealthy of society.You "inners" like Cameron believe we can't stand and succeed on our own and voting "in" is the easy option and gutless option.

You like millions if we stay in will 100% regret your vote in years time as the French and German clowns as well as Brussels drum up more hideous policies and drain our recourses dry in which is already happening.

We've had a few tough recessions already in the EU and many countries in the EU are about to collapse and who's goner pick them up? It's unsustainable the way the EU is going and it really is a case of going back to basics as having 30 odd poor countries and a few wealthy can't ever work.Having the best workers around Europe flocking to a few countries while these countries are left with scraps is just idiotic.

Europe needs to go back to how it was and boy it was a happy continent compared to now

Economists this and that bla bla bla....this is GREAT BRITAIN and long may it continue that way without be run by idiots or leaders of other countries who we've never got on with and never will.

 

[Bakero]

cough




crikey, how mental extreme far left are you in that noggin of yours that you think RMT are hard right

7 April 2016
RMT Press Office:

TRANSPORT UNION RMT today set out six key reasons why it will be advising members to vote to the leave the EU in the forthcoming referendum:

1. Leave the EU to end attacks on rail workers

New EU rail policies are set to further entrench rail privatisation and fragmentation. That will also mean more attacks or jobs and conditions and EU laws will make it impossible to bring all of rail back into public ownership.

2. Leave the EU to end attacks on seafarers and the offshore workers

The EU has promoted undercutting and social dumping leading to the decimation of UK seafarers. The same is now happening in the offshore sector. EU directives also require the tendering our public ferry services.

3. Leave the EU to end attacks on workers’ rights

It’s a myth that the EU is in favour of workers. In fact the EU is developing a new policy framework to attack trade union rights, collective bargaining, job protections and wages. This is already being enforced in countries which have received EU “bailouts”.

4. Leave the EU to end Austerity

If you join a union you expect members of the union to protect each other in times of trouble. The European Union has done the opposite. It has used the economic crisis to impose austerity and privatization on member states. Instead of protecting jobs and investment EU austerity is driving UK austerity.

5. Leave the EU to stop the attack on our NHS

The Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) trade agreement being negotiated between the EU and the United States will promote big business at the expense government protections and organisations including our NHS! Environmental regulations, employment rights, food safety, privacy laws and many other safeguards will also be secondary to the right of corporations to make even bigger profits.

6. Leave the EU to support democracy

The vast majority of the laws that affects our lives are now made in the EU and not the UK. We have no say over those Laws. As the late Tony Benn said in 1991…

“We are discussing whether the British people are to be allowed to elect those who make the laws under which they are governed. The argument is nothing to do with whether we should get more maternity leave from Madame Papandreou [a European Commissioner].”


RMT will be promoting the six key points direct to members across all sectors of the transport industry through the union’s RMT NEWS, through branches and reps and through the union’s social media platforms.

RMT General Secretary Mick Cash said:

“RMT is proud to stand up for the tradition of progressive and socialist opposition to the European Union, an organisation wedded to privatisation, austerity and attacking democracy.

“It would be frankly ludicrous for a union like ours to support staying in a bosses club that seeks to ban the public ownership of our railways, attacks the shipping and offshore sectors and embraces the privatisation of the NHS and other essential services that our members depend on.

“RMT has set out the six core reasons for our members to vote to leave and we will be campaigning hard on this platform.”

A well argued case for Brexit from the RMT. It's a shame that the progressive Brexit voice has been completely overshadowed by Boris, Gove et al. The quality of debate from the mainstream on both sides has been pathetic yet depressingly predictable.

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

Corbyn, the hard left leader, campaigning for remain. Oh well

Brexit has shown us perhaps not a leader the electorate could trust in future....

 

[5ways]

How?

Take away the many migrants on minimum wage who don't pay tax and there are millions of them.They come here and take the low paid jobs.Take away the many migrants who work cash in hand.Take away the migrants who do pay tax but are just replacing the tax a British worker in the same job would have paid.It's not extra tax.Even if you did take into account their tax paid it's wiped out and more by how much they cost us to maintain.Housing,schools,NHS,police etc etc.Your argument is poor.

Take away your assumptions and guesses we can look at some some actual evidence:


Immigration. The impact of the UK leaving the EU on immigration from
outside the EU is highly uncertain. But it seems more likely than not that
immigration from within the EU would be reduced. Recent analysis of the
Labour Force Survey by researchers at the London School of Economics
(Wadsworth et al., 2016) shows that ‘Immigrants from the EU are younger
and more educated than the UK-born – for example, almost twice as many
have received some form of higher education. They are also more likely to be
in work, especially those entering from Eastern Europe.’ On average,
immigrants are found, at least at the moment, to pay more in tax, to receive
less in out-of-work benefits (but more in in-work benefits) and to place lower
demands on public services than the native population (Dustmann and
Frattini, 2014; Portes, 2015).77 While this could change if they remain in the
UK through their retirement, the OBR has estimated that lower immigration
would weaken the UK’s long-run public finance position.78


http://www.ifs.org.uk/uploads/publications/comms/r116.pdf


It says that European migrants made a net contribution of £20bn to UK public finances between 2000 and 2011. Those from the 15 countries which made up the EU before 2004, including France, Germany, Italy and Spain, contributed 64% – £15bn more in taxes than they received in welfare – while east European migrants contributed 12%, equivalent to £5bn more.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/nov/05/eu-migrants-uk-gains-20bn-ucl-study

 

[The Rivet]

Take away your assumptions and guesses we can look at some some actual evidence:


Immigration. The impact of the UK leaving the EU on immigration from
outside the EU is highly uncertain. But it seems more likely than not that
immigration from within the EU would be reduced. Recent analysis of the
Labour Force Survey by researchers at the London School of Economics
(Wadsworth et al., 2016) shows that ‘Immigrants from the EU are younger
and more educated than the UK-born – for example, almost twice as many
have received some form of higher education. They are also more likely to be
in work, especially those entering from Eastern Europe.’ On average,
immigrants are found, at least at the moment, to pay more in tax, to receive
less in out-of-work benefits (but more in in-work benefits) and to place lower
demands on public services than the native population (Dustmann and
Frattini, 2014; Portes, 2015).77 While this could change if they remain in the
UK through their retirement, the OBR has estimated that lower immigration
would weaken the UK’s long-run public finance position.78


http://www.ifs.org.uk/uploads/publications/comms/r116.pdf


It says that European migrants made a net contribution of £20bn to UK public finances between 2000 and 2011. Those from the 15 countries which made up the EU before 2004, including France, Germany, Italy and Spain, contributed 64% – £15bn more in taxes than they received in welfare – while east European migrants contributed 12%, equivalent to £5bn more.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/nov/05/eu-migrants-uk-gains-20bn-ucl-study

Two boats so far! Can't wait for the hoardes to think, 'heck we crossed the med, what is the English Channel?.
Wonder how that would affect the referendum vote.

 

[5ways]

I would say no.............in this or any country.

Nope. They're young, they pay taxes, they pay into the economy and subsidise the natives who pay less into the system than migrants do.

 

[brighton fella]

Exactly. A typical Brexit response when anyone challenges their weak hard-right agenda. He lost the argument. What a thicko numpty.

So i have lost the argument when not one of you can answer a simple question. not the first time it's been asked either.
hard right
. .

 

[The Rivet]

Nope. They're young, they pay taxes, they pay into the economy and subsidise the natives who pay less into the system than migrants do.

Delusional.

 

[cunning fergus]

Nope. They're young, they pay taxes, they pay into the economy and subsidise the natives who pay less into the system than migrants do.

Not this again, 88% of EU migrant workers in the UK earn less than 21k..........they are no Great Gatsbys'..........try again.

 

[portslade seagull]

Take away your assumptions and guesses we can look at some some actual evidence:


Immigration. The impact of the UK leaving the EU on immigration from
outside the EU is highly uncertain. But it seems more likely than not that
immigration from within the EU would be reduced. Recent analysis of the
Labour Force Survey by researchers at the London School of Economics
(Wadsworth et al., 2016) shows that ‘Immigrants from the EU are younger
and more educated than the UK-born – for example, almost twice as many
have received some form of higher education. They are also more likely to be
in work, especially those entering from Eastern Europe.’ On average,
immigrants are found, at least at the moment, to pay more in tax, to receive
less in out-of-work benefits (but more in in-work benefits) and to place lower
demands on public services than the native population (Dustmann and
Frattini, 2014; Portes, 2015).77 While this could change if they remain in the
UK through their retirement, the OBR has estimated that lower immigration
would weaken the UK’s long-run public finance position.78


http://www.ifs.org.uk/uploads/publications/comms/r116.pdf


It says that European migrants made a net contribution of £20bn to UK public finances between 2000 and 2011. Those from the 15 countries which made up the EU before 2004, including France, Germany, Italy and Spain, contributed 64% – £15bn more in taxes than they received in welfare – while east European migrants contributed 12%, equivalent to £5bn more.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/nov/05/eu-migrants-uk-gains-20bn-ucl-study

Sadly that argument was blown out of the water as it was agreed that they cost more but there you go.

 

[Soulman]

Sadly that argument was blown out of the water as it was agreed that they cost more but there you go.

Most of 5ways arguments are blown out of the water, but he still keeps repeating them, hoping they will either stick or convince the gullible i suppose.

 

[portslade seagull]

Nope. They're young, they pay taxes, they pay into the economy and subsidise the natives who pay less into the system than migrants do.

Have you visited the ritz lately and seen the campsite outside two sides to all stories this is the one they keep quiet

 

[The Rivet]

Sadly that argument was blown out of the water as it was agreed that they cost more but there you go.

Don't worry he will catch up in ten years time.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Taking away evidence only showing one view ... other studies show a net cost (EEA migrants) ranging between -£0.3bn to -£13.6bn.

http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/key-topics/economics

http://www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/briefings/fiscal-impact-immigration-uk

The Dustmann and Frattini paper is also unlikely to be accurate or is misleading for numerous reasons, see link.

http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/347

And round and round we go.

 

[GoldWithFalmer]

Nope. They're young, they pay taxes, they pay into the economy and subsidise the natives who pay less into the system than migrants do.

Perhaps they should be made to earn over £25000/year before they can bring spouses and family members over to the UK rather than the current £18600 that's where the indirect drain starts to appear......the real costs..

Face it many people in this country can earn what migrant workers do....

 

[portslade seagull]

Don't worry he will catch up in ten years time.

By then it will be colossal. The breaks need to be applied now for the future generations not to be saddled with mountains of debt much worse than it is presently

 

[5ways]

Not this again, 88% of EU migrant workers in the UK earn less than 21k..........they are no Great Gatsbys'..........try again.

CEP BREXIT ANALYSIS NO. 5 Brexit and the impact of immigration on the UK

• Between 1995 and 2015, the number of immigrants from other European Union (EU) countries living in the UK tripled from 0.9 million to 3.3 million. In 2015, EU net immigration to the UK was 172,000, only just below the figure of 191,000 for non-EU immigrants.

• The big increase in EU immigration occurred after the ‘A8’ East European countries joined in 2004. In 2015 29% of EU immigrants were Polish.

• EU immigrants are more educated, younger, more likely to be in work and less likely to claim benefits than the UK-born. About 44% have some form of higher education compared with only 23% of the UK-born. About a third of EU immigrants live in London, compared with only 11% of the UK-born.

• Many people are concerned that immigration reduces the pay and job chances of the UKborn due to more competition for jobs. But immigrants consume goods and services and this increased demand helps to create more employment opportunities. Immigrants also might have skills that complement UK-born workers. So we need empirical evidence to settle the issue of whether the economic impact of immigration is negative or positive for the UK-born.

• New evidence in this Report shows that the areas of the UK with large increases in EU immigration did not suffer greater falls in the jobs and pay of UK-born workers. The big falls in wages after 2008 are due to the global financial crisis and a weak economic recovery, not to immigration.

• There is also little effect of EU immigration on inequality through reducing the pay and jobs of less skilled UK workers. Changes in wages and joblessness for less educated UKborn workers show little correlation with changes in EU immigration.

• EU immigrants pay more in taxes than they take out in welfare and the use of public services. They therefore help reduce the budget deficit. Immigrants do not have a negative effect on local services such as crime, education, health, or social housing
• European countries with access to the Single Market must allow free movement of EU citizens whether in the EU (like the UK) or outside it (like Norway and Switzerland).

• The refugee crisis has nothing to do with EU membership. Refugees admitted to Germany have no right to live in the UK. The UK is not in the Schengen passport-free travel agreement so there are border checks on migrants.

http://cep.lse.ac.uk/pubs/download/brexit05.pdf