Big Ron Quits ITV

[Hungry Joe.]

What Ron said was clearly unacceptable and he had to go. Fair play to him for resigning and I do feel sad for him in that he is obviously genuinley gutted. I'm sure he didn't intend to offend anymore than my Granddad did when he refered to black people as Spades (my Granddad for the record was a life long socialist and Labour supporter). It's easy for the younger of us who have been raised in world where any such language is considered offensive and stamped on to forget that this was not always the case and the use of such words was not neccessarily delivered to cause offense.
It has already been mentioned but there is also massive hypocracy at work here. We as Brighton supporters are continualy subjected to homophobic offensive chants and comments. Similar chants or comments aimed at a clubs ethnic minorities would lead to bans, sanctions, fines abd arrests (and rightly so). I fail to see the difference. Also bald or balding and overweight players, officials, managers and supporters are constantly the subject of offensive comments and chants (we're as guilty as anyone on that count) and yet this is seen as harmless fun poking. I'm sure many of the recipients of these comments don't see them as inoffensive.
My problem isn't with political correctness but the subjective application of it. Sure there's a difference between a race of peoples who have undoubtedly suffered centuries of open discrimination and persecution (a claim that can equally be claimed by Jewish people who, at some clubs, are still 'fair game') and individuals who may happen to be overweight or have less hair but the discrimation faced by these people is still just that; discrimination. Recently there was even a serious debate on Radio 5 regarding Ian Duncan Smith and the percieved fact that his lack of hair made him unelectable. So racism - NO!, body fascism/homophobia - OK, it's just a laugh, toughen up. Bollocks.

 

[Easy 10]

Big Ron is precisely inherently racist. He has maintained his views and language, obviously, from a time when it was more acceptable to speak like that. He has not changed and seems to have no interest in doing so.

I think its harsh to automatically brand Ron an out and out racist based on that remark last night. The basic definition of a racist is someone who believes that their race is superior to another - does Ron Atkinson really believe that whites are superior to blacks ? Or was it just a highly offensive and ill-thought of comment said in the heat of the moment ?

Only he will know. Now he's come out with that remark, everyone else now seems convinced of the fact that the guy IS a racist, but who hasn't said something in the heat of the moment that we don't actually mean ? I'm not excusing him - after what he said, he HAD to go. But I would still hesitate to brand him a racist.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Great point Phaedrus.

I recall last season vs Preston at the Withdean, some extreme anti-Scottish comments were shouted at Craig Brown from the terraces, and my pal who happens to be Scottish and normally very mild-mannered, was extremely upset and close to having it out with the people shouting.

Banter is one thing, abuse is another.

Big Ron has done the right thing in stepping down. He would have had to be sacked anyway. He's demonstrated in his deeds that he's not inherently racist, and losing his job and the public shame is punishment enough.

Personally, I hope he returns to our screens after a long period for reflection because I, for one, cannot stand the banalities of Townshend, McCoist and Earle.

 

[Blackadder]

Desailly Quits In Big Ron Row

Apr 22 2004

French legend Marcel Desailly's football career is over after an amazing six letter outburst directed at TV pundit Big 'Ron' Atkinson.

The Chelsea centre back stunned ITV viewers with a tirade against Atkinson during Tuesday night's live coverage of his side's Champions

league semi-final defeat in Monaco.

With the game slipping away from Chelsea in the second half, Desailly was clearly seen to mouth a derogatory statement about Atkinson.

Although this is a family-oriented website, we have decided to publish that tirade in full.

Desailly called Atkinson 'Cheap Orange Trash' and a 'Fake Tan Chunky Boy' before laying out Fernando Morientes with a casually misplaced elbow to the head.

Pressure groups were last night up in arms over Desailly's comments.

The South Florida Orange Growers' Association called the outburst 'A blatant attempt to demonise all things orangey' and a spokesperson for Outspan added that 'This was fruitism of the very worst kind which leaves a nasty taste in the mouth, unlike our consistently juicy and delicious products.'

Atkinson himself was unavailable for comment as he was holed up in a tanning booth with six kilos of jewellery and a karaoke machine.

But a contrite Desailly issued the following statement: "I made a
stupid statement which I regret.

"It left me no option but to resign. At the moment I can't believe I
did it. It was just a moment of stupidity.

"I was very frustrated during the game because I thought Cheslea could have won. I regret making the comments and I apologise to anyone I may have offended.

"If you look at my track record as a player, I was one of the first in the game to give oranges a chance, especially at half time."

Desailly's manager, Claudio Ranieri, confirmed that he had received a letter of resignation from Marcel.

It is understood that he then turned it into a plane and then a hat and then a paper chain.

 

[Dave the OAP]

Yes but Mickey,, Sheppherd was just stating a fact,Geordi woman are all fat slappers and look like pregnant hippo's whereas Big Ron was making an opinion...there is a difference

 

[Meade's Ball]

I think its harsh to automatically brand Ron an out and out racist based on that remark last night. The basic definition of a racist is someone who believes that their race is superior to another - does Ron Atkinson really believe that whites are superior to blacks ? Or was it just a highly offensive and ill-thought of comment said in the heat of the moment ?

Only he will know. Now he's come out with that remark, everyone else now seems convinced of the fact that the guy IS a racist, but who hasn't said something in the heat of the moment that we don't actually mean ? I'm not excusing him - after what he said, he HAD to go. But I would still hesitate to brand him a racist.

Big Ronald was not in the heat of any moment. He waited for sound to go off and spoke his mind.
As we see in this thread, there have been a number of occasions in which he has passed comment on skin colour. It is a theme. I'm not sure how developed his views on white supremacy are (i doubt any of his views are that well-considered), but that doesn't stop him being an old racist idiot.
He's not a Big Problem for society and obviously represents a different era, but i think, once again, he's sat in the wrong dugout and he should be chastised.

I will be glad to never have to listen to his endless stereotyping of the French and Germans again or his repetitive joking at the expense of Scots.

Saying that, he was quite funny sometimes.

 

[Jambo Seagull]

I think Phaedrus makes a fair point about the age group issue. Ron comes from an era when the use of the word "******" was not regarded as anything like as taboo as it is now. I can vividly remember watching, and laughing at, Love thy Neighbour whose main premise was a black West Indian family moving next door to a white racist.

I do not think his use of the word marks him out to be a card-carrying member of the BNP. It shows however that his language, and probably his prejudices, are outmoded and unacceptable in todays society. However they are probably used, and held, by a large swathe of white men in the UK over the age of 50. I think a reasonable description is racist with a small R. I would include my Dad (who is no longer with us), my uncles and my father-in-law in this. I do not mean this is the sort of language which they would use all the time to describe black people but in certain circumstances they probably would whereas I, from a different generation most definitely would not.

I heard him on Five live this morning and whilst I admire him for coming on the radio and fronting up to it I think his excuses were a little lame. He said he would never use this language even if he was in private company. That is clearly shite.

I think it is ironic also that he was a pioneer of the use of black players when they were very, very thin on the ground, so again I think that would confirm that he is not someone who has a difficulty dealing with black people. He deserves some credit for that. I remember a few years ago when there was a discussion about gay players coing out on football. I'm pretty sure that the doyenne of English football, Bobby Robson said he would not sign a player he knew to be gay "because it would affect the morale of the dressing room" (ie because he was a homophobe) where as Big Ron said he would play aplayer solely on ability alone and whether he was pink with yellow spots and from Mars that would make no difference to him.

Having said this what he said was unacceptable and he had to go. I applaud him for immediately resigning and will miss him and his Ronglish but he did the right thing.

 

[Dave the OAP]

The white neighbour in Love Thy Neighbour and also Alf Garnett did not regards themselves as racist though. That is the problem the "older" generation have with the current pre-occupation with race.

Mt grandmother, who is 90 lives in a housing association development in West Yorkshire which when she moved in about 20 years ago had 100% white pensioners living in it. The road she lives in was mostly mixed race white and asian. Now the road and surrounding area is 100% asian, and the residents face abuse, intimidation and physical attack for living in the area. The local asian population want the houses for their ever increasing families/community and see the houses as perfect for this.

Now, can some of the liberals on here tell me why she and the residents should not harbour views of loathing for these people when she cannot go out of her front door without being called a "white bitch", spat at, and abused?

We are very fortunate in we live in Brighton which is basically a very tollerant area ( apart from the attacks on the gay community) and we have not the social problems other parts of the country face

 

[Tooting Gull]

It certainly makes you see his World Cup-stylee comments - "Cameroon, lovely smiles, wonderful athletes, great rhythm, but no tactical awareness" in a whole new light.

 

[Meade's Ball]

Mt grandmother, who is 90 lives in a housing association development in West Yorkshire which when she moved in about 20 years ago had 100% white pensioners living in it. The road she lives in was mostly mixed race white and asian. Now the road and surrounding area is 100% asian, and the residents face abuse, intimidation and physical attack for living in the area. The local asian population want the houses for their ever increasing families/community and see the houses as perfect for this.

Now, can some of the liberals on here tell me why she and the residents should not harbour views of loathing for these people when she cannot go out of her front door without being called a "white bitch", spat at, and abused?

Of course it's not wrong to loathe those particular people. They sound like utter bastards. But if you then suggest that all Asians are like that or that they are only acting like that because they are Asian, then it's racism isn't it.

 

[Deano's Right Foot]

Now, can some of the liberals on here tell me why she and the residents should not harbour views of loathing for these people when she cannot go out of her front door without being called a "white bitch", spat at, and abused?

"these people"? The people who abuse her or all asians?

I see that it is quite justified that she is angry at the people who abuse her. It would not make any logical sense to extend this anger to a whole race though. I don't hate all white people or all doctors because of what Harold Shipman did.

 

[Hungry Joe.]

Now, can some of the liberals on here tell me why she and the residents should not harbour views of loathing for these people when she cannot go out of her front door without being called a "white bitch", spat at, and abused?
[/B]

Fair point but a massive can of worms to open. Yes I can understand your Grandmother and her fellow residents hating those who abuse and intimidate them but this only becomes racsim if she/they apply that hatred to all Asian people on the assumption that all Asian people do/would behave the same which, of course, they wouldn't. My ex wifes Grandmother lives in Manchester and gets on fine with all her mixed race neighbours but won't let her son park his Toyota in her street due to the hatred she still holds for all Japanese people for the torture of her husband in WWII. Whether or not it's understandable how she feels it is still irrational and racist.

 

[Dave the OAP]

Whilst I take your very well made points about the "whole asian population" and I agree with them 100%, one of the residents I was talking to, nice old chap, approached a few of these yoofs who were banging on his door and he said something like "piss off and leave me alone you b**** b*******'s and he was visited by the black community officer who said it had been reported to him that this old bloke was being racist to the youths. When he explained that he had to put up with being called evertything under the sun including racist comments, the police officer suggested that as he hadn't reported it, he was lying and he issue him with a "warning about future conduct".

Try telling him about the fairness of the system.

 

[Lammy]

The only 'race' of people that have absolutely no protection form the law are white, heterosexual married men.

 

[Hungry Joe.]

Try telling him about the fairness of the system. [/B]

The system is fundamentaly flawed I agree. The average white person has to spend so much time treading on eggshells due to our collective guilt over the action of past generations it's untrue, yet we recieve very little protection from abuse of our rights. Positive discrimination in the 80's bread and fuelled racism due to it's soemtimes real and sometimes percieved unfairness and now the post 9/11 world is breeding more paranoia and mistrust than for many years.

 

[On the Left Wing]

Dinosaurs falling on their swords

... or hoisted by their own petard .... to mix a metaphor or three

Must admit to feeling quite smug about Big Ron's gaff and his need to resign from ITV.
I really can't stand the man and his appearance last night on Room 101, in which his 19th century chauvanism was also evidence, underlined the reason why he won't be missed.

His gaff and enforced resignation comes only a couple of months after that other TV dinosaur Robert Kilroy Silk did something similar.

It only needs Terry Wogan to put both his feet in his mouth (rather than the usual one) and that will be all the TV dinosaurs killed off.

Then we can hope that some of the other younger never-off-the-box pains-in-the-backside, namely Alan Hansen, Gordon "he must score" Smith, Charlie Dimmick, Anne Robinson and Shane Richie will follow suit ...

 

[Wozza]

The Guardian have sacked him now too.

 

[Dandyman]

The system is fundamentaly flawed I agree. The average white person has to spend so much time treading on eggshells due to our collective guilt over the action of past generations it's untrue, yet we recieve very little protection from abuse of our rights. Positive discrimination in the 80's bread and fuelled racism due to it's soemtimes real and sometimes percieved unfairness and now the post 9/11 world is breeding more paranoia and mistrust than for many years. In the words of Michael Stipe "I'm very scared for this world, I'm very scared for me" (World Leader Pretend)

I agree that (media fulled) perceptions do fuel racism but I am unaware on any widespread anti-white discrimination and I live in an area of london with a multitude of ethnic minorities.

If elderly white people are being attacked by young Asian or other non-white kids is it not more likely to be general thuggish behaviour rather than racism per se ? I suspect there may also be an issue about the general level of support working class areas receive from the police as well.

 

[Hungry Joe.]

I agree that (media fulled) perceptions do fuel racism but I am unaware on any widespread anti-white discrimination and I live in an area of london with a multitude of ethnic minorities.

If elderly white people are being attacked by young Asian or other non-white kids is it not more likely to be general thuggish behaviour rather than racism per se ? I suspect there may also be an issue about the general level of support working class areas receive from the police as well.

Good points. I'm not saying there is widespread anti-white discrimination here though, but it is true that legally we are disadvantaged when it comes to allegations of discrimination which is the point Dave and Lammy were making I think. The class issue is very relevant. When it comes to the system protecting it's citizens the working class white person is way down the list after those who own and control wealth and their property.

 

[Wozza]

Big Ron's chalk board...