"Bendy-buses, like atheism, are a danger to the public at large"

[Mellotron]

It's so obvious to me that god had to be created by man solely in order to explain away stuff that couldn't be understood by people who were of course more ignorant than we are now. Where's my dead relative gone? Don't worry, they're in heaven. And they're there because they were good people. How come there are such things as plants, animals? Ah, well, god made all of them.

Well, now we know that that's not true. I don't think my dead ancestors exist anywhere, sadly, other than partly in my own genes. And plants weren't made because some entity fancied making them, they happened because of cell division. Can't remember who said it, but religion really is nothing more than a very effective advertising agency for a product that doesn't exist. IMHO.

I think that's a very basic way of looking at the life and death and the earth, which is an unbelievably complex mechanism. For me it comes down to the fact it makes more sense to me that there was some kind of will behind the very first energy, anywhere in existence, than no will whatsoever.

I'd love to find the link (and will continue to look), but a group of American scientists recently (NOT Christians) enacted a number of theorems to show how LIKELY the Universe came about by chance.

It worked out at the same odds as one man winning the Lottery every single week for 14.4 million years. Hmm.

So...that ^^^ or there's a reason behind all of it? I know which one sounds more likely and less absurd.

note: - consequently a number of those Scientists became Christians, you can look up a book, The Case For Christ on Amazon, which is the story of one such staunch atheist scientist who became a believer due to his scientific exploration.

 

[Mellotron]

Ah, you forget: he was obviously just TESTING PEOPLE'S FAITH. Which was nice.

Nah, nothing to do with free will or any of that?

 

[Rusthall Seagull]

They all believe in the validity of the Koran, like all Christians believe in the bible. So yes, in my view. The moderate muslims should be held accountable for the extremists to some extent.

to what 'extent' ?

so, if you as a supporter, go to a football match, knowing that part of the culture of football is hooliganism and a fellow supporter starts raining punches down on a another, ultimately resulting in the the other guy/girl receiving serious injuries, should you be held accountable?

 

[Benny Seagull]

I've never seen the wind, but I'm certain that exists.

You could say you've seen the EFFECTS of wind, but I could say I believe I've seen the effects of God. Even in the smallest things.

i can FEEL the wind every day. i can't FEEL god doing anything. that's becuase there's no such thing.

 

[Lokki 7]

to what 'extent' ?

so, if you as a supporter, go to a football match, knowing that part of the culture of football is hooliganism and a fellow supporter starts raining punches down on a another, ultimately resulting in the the other guy/girl receiving serious injuries, should you be held accountable?

Dick Knight is not telling us to cause violence though is he? If he SUGGESTED that Palace fans be punched on sight then your analogy may have some substance. If I disagreed with DK's stance but continued to follow the Albion and stood idly by whilst others committed violence then yes I should be held accountable for their actions to some extent. All that evil men need to prosper is for good men to do nothing.

 

[Rusthall Seagull]

Dick Knight is not telling us to cause violence though is he? If he SUGGESTED that Palace fans be punched on sight then your analogy may have some substance. If I disagreed with DK's stance but continued to follow the Albion and stood idly by whilst others committed violence then yes I should be held accountable for their actions to some extent. All that evil men need to prosper is for good men to do nothing.

but the Koran is not directly telling people to go out and strap bombs to themselves and blow people up and the bible did not directly say go out and find homosexuals and murder them. It's all about interpretation and association - you associate yourself with the Club and it's supporters, some good and some bad, so using your argument, to some extent, you should be held accountable.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

What a f***ing waste of money is all I can say.

If Dawkins wasn't so full of his own self importance he'd have used the money for something actually worth while.

Like maybe saving the Red Squirrel.

 

[Lokki 7]

but the Koran is not directly telling people to go out and strap bombs to themselves and blow people up and the bible did not directly say go out and find homosexuals and murder them. It's all about interpretation and association - you associate yourself with the Club and it's supporters, some good and some bad, so using your argument, to some extent, you should be held accountable.

I associate myself with the club and their message is clear, violence will not be tolerated. If only 'God's' message were so clear.
Of the fans, it is my choice who I associate with. If I want a ruck it may be a different set to if I don't want a ruck but that is down to me, I'm not following an outdated manual. I really don't see your point. If you had been arguing throughout this thread that some Christians are indeed nutters then I might be more sympathetic, but you can't argue that because they are the ones that believe in the bible. You defend Christianity therefore you are defending all it's ills. I am not condoning football violence.

 

[MattBackHome]

I think that's a very basic way of looking at the life and death and the earth, which is an unbelievably complex mechanism. For me it comes down to the fact it makes more sense to me that there was some kind of will behind the very first energy, anywhere in existence, than no will whatsoever.

I'd love to find the link (and will continue to look), but a group of American scientists recently (NOT Christians) enacted a number of theorems to show how LIKELY the Universe came about by chance.

It worked out at the same odds as one man winning the Lottery every single week for 14.4 million years. Hmm.

So...that ^^^ or there's a reason behind all of it? I know which one sounds more likely and less absurd.

note: - consequently a number of those Scientists became Christians, you can look up a book, The Case For Christ on Amazon, which is the story of one such staunch atheist scientist who became a believer due to his scientific exploration.

Anthropic principle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Pavilionaire]

Over time I believe the world is becoming a more secular, less religious place, and I believe this is a good thing.

 

[Curious Orange]

I think that's a very basic way of looking at the life and death and the earth, which is an unbelievably complex mechanism. For me it comes down to the fact it makes more sense to me that there was some kind of will behind the very first energy, anywhere in existence, than no will whatsoever.

I'd love to find the link (and will continue to look), but a group of American scientists recently (NOT Christians) enacted a number of theorems to show how LIKELY the Universe came about by chance.

It worked out at the same odds as one man winning the Lottery every single week for 14.4 million years. Hmm.

So...that ^^^ or there's a reason behind all of it? I know which one sounds more likely and less absurd.

note: - consequently a number of those Scientists became Christians, you can look up a book, The Case For Christ on Amazon, which is the story of one such staunch atheist scientist who became a believer due to his scientific exploration.

Congratulations you got lucky... either that or you are actually in a computer program, as some other study concluded.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Should we not believe in physics because alot of it is only a theory devised by a human who doesnt actually know the factual truth?

 

[Notters]

ANYWAY, and I don't think anyone's mentioned this yet... An important point the Richard Dawkins repeatedly makes in the God Delusion is that Athiests cannot be lumped together. We do no have "faith", we are all different, whereas Christians essentially can. The reason that this messages on a bus idea seems strange is it's one of the first examples EVER of athiests coming together in the public eye.

 

[butchy]

qualla

YouTube - Dan Le Sac vs. Scroobius Pip - Letter from God

 

[Notters]

qualla

YouTube - Dan Le Sac vs. Scroobius Pip - Letter from God

That's... weird...

 

[Herne Hill Seagull]

This kind of debate is, I suspect, the sort of thing that drives Dawkins to place the ads. With the possible exception of the bit about bollocks.

Quite apart from the theological or moral argument themselves, on the most basic and pragmatic level, if the Church can place posters, billboards and the like promoting their message all over the place (and it's not just their own places of worship which they use, as anybody who uses the tube will attest), then so can anybody with the opposite view.

Edit: ambiguity. Sparking this kind of debate is I suspect what drives him.

 

[Biscuit]

This is one of those threads where everyone speaks and no one listens..

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

You know what, this is one of those threads where everyone speaks and no-one listens.

 

[DTES]

to what 'extent' ?

so, if you as a supporter, go to a football match, knowing that part of the culture of football is hooliganism and a fellow supporter starts raining punches down on a another, ultimately resulting in the the other guy/girl receiving serious injuries, should you be held accountable?

Actually, there's a fair case to say "Yes". If you regularly followed a club where there was violence - if there was massive hooliganism at Withdean every fortnight - and you completely ignored it and never spoke out against it, then yes I think that could be argued. If it were happening, we'd all have a duty to speak out against those involved.

Similarly, "moderate" religious people have a duty to speak out against those who commit atrocities in the name of "their" God.

 

[Gully]

You know what, this is one of those threads where everyone speaks and no-one listens.

You know what, this is one of those threads where everyone speaks and no-one listens.

It is also one where people keep repeating themselves.

It is also one where people keep repeating themselves.