"Bendy-buses, like atheism, are a danger to the public at large"

[Soton Seagull]

Religion is just nuts (sometimes literally as there is often a strong link between fundamentalism and mental illness).

If the bible is open to interpretation, then clearly it is not 'the word of God' as there would be no disagreeent if it were. Not to mention the gap in time between alleged events and them making it on to paper (chinese whispers anyone?)

I can understand that people have trouble dealing with the idea that when you die, that is it; and that there is no grand plan or reason for being other than chance.

Humans have been looking for answers since we left the caves, however until recently we could not even explain the spread of disease etc. As such, in the absence of rational explanation it is not suprising that people were superstitous in the past. They should clearly have grown out of it by now.

One doesn't need to believe in fairies at the bottom of the garden to appreciate its beauty.

 

[DTES]

Religion is just nuts (sometimes literally as there is often a strong link between fundamentalism and mental illness).

If the bible is open to interpretation, then clearly it is not 'the word of God' as there would be no disagreeent if it were. Not to mention the gap in time between alleged events and them making it on to paper (chinese whispers anyone?)

I can understand that people have trouble dealing with the idea that when you die, that is it; and that there is no grand plan or reason for being other than chance.

Humans have been looking for answers since we left the caves, however until recently we could not even explain the spread of disease etc. As such, in the absence of rational explanation it is not suprising that people were superstitous in the past. They should clearly have grown out of it by now.

One doesn't need to believe in fairies at the bottom of the garden to appreciate its beauty.

Word. (Every word, actually).

 

[Chesney Christ]

I think that's a very basic way of looking at the life and death and the earth, which is an unbelievably complex mechanism. For me it comes down to the fact it makes more sense to me that there was some kind of will behind the very first energy, anywhere in existence, than no will whatsoever.

I'd love to find the link (and will continue to look), but a group of American scientists recently (NOT Christians) enacted a number of theorems to show how LIKELY the Universe came about by chance.

It worked out at the same odds as one man winning the Lottery every single week for 14.4 million years. Hmm.

So...that ^^^ or there's a reason behind all of it? I know which one sounds more likely and less absurd.

note: - consequently a number of those Scientists became Christians, you can look up a book, The Case For Christ on Amazon, which is the story of one such staunch atheist scientist who became a believer due to his scientific exploration.

Right, couple of points from me. I feel weird talking you about this on a message board when we have had opportunities to do it in person, but f*** it.

1. The point you make about the lottery - we both agreed recently that whichever theory is true it is still utterly absurd and incredibly unlikely, so that doesn't really prove a lot.

2. The whole "free will" thing. Right, well this is a major reason why I have turned my back on the whole thing. I have heard Christians say things before like "we were in stormy seas and the boat started rocking and we were all really worried we were gonna die, but then it stopped, the seas calmed and you could tell the hand of God had saved us. Praise the lord!" This I don't get. If God saved them, why the hell did he let the boat rock in the first place? I have heard people talking about witnessing "miracles" because they found a bowl of fruit on a train when they were really hungry (no, seriously) and other examples of "miracles" where God "steps in". Yet he has allowed wars and famine to rage for years and years. I don't get this idea that we have free will, but that every now and then God steps in - perhaps when he's a bit bored or run out of things to do in heaven - and helps out, then takes a backseat again for ages while communities are destroyed by natural disasters and people die of famine in third world countries., popping up here and there to leave bowls of fruit on trains.

So, do we have free will or not? Because it would appear we don't...

 

[DTES]

So, do we have free will or not? Because it would appear we don't...

My initial reaction here is "WOAH! Entirely different topic, time for a new thread!"

But to answer the question, I think... no.

It may sound simplistic, but... the laws of physics are the laws of the physics. We don't need to have discovered/explained them for them to exist. They are unbreakable - on the macro scale and the micro scale, whatever they are. And as such, every single particle inside every atom inside every cell inside every neuron of you body, including your brain is following only pre-set rules... it's all got to flow with the laws.

It's entirely unpredictable for us, but it's set.

 

[ben andrews' girlfriend]

Religion is just nuts (sometimes literally as there is often a strong link between fundamentalism and mental illness).

If the bible is open to interpretation, then clearly it is not 'the word of God' as there would be no disagreeent if it were. Not to mention the gap in time between alleged events and them making it on to paper (chinese whispers anyone?)

I can understand that people have trouble dealing with the idea that when you die, that is it; and that there is no grand plan or reason for being other than chance.

Humans have been looking for answers since we left the caves, however until recently we could not even explain the spread of disease etc. As such, in the absence of rational explanation it is not suprising that people were superstitous in the past. They should clearly have grown out of it by now.

One doesn't need to believe in fairies at the bottom of the garden to appreciate its beauty.

Top post there!!!

 

[Twinkle Toes]

Maybe we could have a few local buses with the slogan 'I'm NOT On the bus' on the side of them? The cheeky slogan can then be augmented with a drenched & pissed-off looking Albion supporter as he/she stands forlornly in a long, post-match bus que: waiting for a double-decker that takes half a sodding hour to turn up...

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

ANYWAY, and I don't think anyone's mentioned this yet... An important point the Richard Dawkins repeatedly makes in the God Delusion is that Athiests cannot be lumped together. We do no have "faith", we are all different, whereas Christians essentially can. The reason that this messages on a bus idea seems strange is it's one of the first examples EVER of athiests coming together in the public eye.

Christians can't all be lumped together.

There's so many different ideals and thoughts there's no way they should be lumped together.

Do you think a Lutheran shares the same views the Mormans do and that Jesus visited America?

I doubt they would.

Faith comes in many forms and variations.

To make it black and white it's simply believer and non-believers and the agnostics in the middle.

 

[Billy Mays]

I think it was Brian who said it best.

You've all got to work it out for yourselves. You are all individuals.

Reporting live from the bible belt.
Billy Mays
Channel 4
The local station.

 

[goldstone]

Religion is just nuts (sometimes literally as there is often a strong link between fundamentalism and mental illness).

If the bible is open to interpretation, then clearly it is not 'the word of God' as there would be no disagreeent if it were. Not to mention the gap in time between alleged events and them making it on to paper (chinese whispers anyone?)

I can understand that people have trouble dealing with the idea that when you die, that is it; and that there is no grand plan or reason for being other than chance.

Humans have been looking for answers since we left the caves, however until recently we could not even explain the spread of disease etc. As such, in the absence of rational explanation it is not suprising that people were superstitous in the past. They should clearly have grown out of it by now.

One doesn't need to believe in fairies at the bottom of the garden to appreciate its beauty.

Brilliant! Well said that man!

 

[goldstone]

Right, couple of points from me. I feel weird talking you about this on a message board when we have had opportunities to do it in person, but f*** it.

1. The point you make about the lottery - we both agreed recently that whichever theory is true it is still utterly absurd and incredibly unlikely, so that doesn't really prove a lot.

2. The whole "free will" thing. Right, well this is a major reason why I have turned my back on the whole thing. I have heard Christians say things before like "we were in stormy seas and the boat started rocking and we were all really worried we were gonna die, but then it stopped, the seas calmed and you could tell the hand of God had saved us. Praise the lord!" This I don't get. If God saved them, why the hell did he let the boat rock in the first place? I have heard people talking about witnessing "miracles" because they found a bowl of fruit on a train when they were really hungry (no, seriously) and other examples of "miracles" where God "steps in". Yet he has allowed wars and famine to rage for years and years. I don't get this idea that we have free will, but that every now and then God steps in - perhaps when he's a bit bored or run out of things to do in heaven - and helps out, then takes a backseat again for ages while communities are destroyed by natural disasters and people die of famine in third world countries., popping up here and there to leave bowls of fruit on trains.

So, do we have free will or not? Because it would appear we don't...

And another great post.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

How many universes are there? And which universe do you BELIEVE we live in?

Choose from this list of possible accounts of our universe:-


The absurd universe
It just happens to be that way.

The unique universe
There is a deep underlying unity in physics which necessitates the universe being this way. Some 'Theory of Everything' will explain why the various features of the Universe must have exactly the values that we see.

The multiverse
Multiple Universes exist which have all possible combinations of characteristics, and we naturally find ourselves within the one that supports our existence.

Creationism
A "Creator" designed the Universe specifically to support complexity and the emergence of Intelligence.

The life principle
There is an underlying principle that constrains the universe to evolve towards life and mind.

The self-explaining universe
A closed explanatory or causal loop: 'perhaps only universes with a capacity for consciousness can exist'.

The fake universe
We are living in a virtual reality simulation.


And when you've decided, explain what makes your "belief" different from some sort of religious explanation .

 

[DJ Leon]

How many universes are there? And which universe do you BELIEVE we live in?

Choose from this list of possible accounts of our universe:-


The absurd universe
It just happens to be that way.

The unique universe
There is a deep underlying unity in physics which necessitates the universe being this way. Some 'Theory of Everything' will explain why the various features of the Universe must have exactly the values that we see.

The multiverse
Multiple Universes exist which have all possible combinations of characteristics, and we naturally find ourselves within the one that supports our existence.

Creationism
A "Creator" designed the Universe specifically to support complexity and the emergence of Intelligence.

The life principle
There is an underlying principle that constrains the universe to evolve towards life and mind.

The self-explaining universe
A closed explanatory or causal loop: 'perhaps only universes with a capacity for consciousness can exist'.

The fake universe
We are living in a virtual reality simulation.


And when you've decided, explain what makes your "belief" different from some sort of religious explanation .

It's the absurd universe (for now anyway), that's where the burden of proof is. My belief in this IS of higher value than someone who believes in Creationism because there is no proof whatsoever, the idea that we're in a virtual reality simulation is probably of more value.

 

[Notters]

Maybe we could have a few local buses with the slogan 'I'm NOT On the bus' on the side of them? The cheeky slogan can then be augmented with a drenched & pissed-off looking Albion supporter as he/she stands forlornly in a long, post-match bus que: waiting for a double-decker that takes half a sodding hour to turn up...

Or they could walk back into town like I always do?

I realise that's not possible for a few people, but it is only 30 minutes walk

 

[Notters]

Top post there!!!

What is this? A convention of the Southampton massive?

 

[sten_super]

Religion is just nuts (sometimes literally as there is often a strong link between

Can I just say at this point you had me SALIVATING at the prospect of someone drawing a link between Jesus and a dried seed. Tragically, the link failed to appear.

Oh and LB, I think the most likely (and, conveniently, I would say the easiest to defend) of those is the multiverse. Then all you are looking at is the result of a probability; if enough universes are created, then eventually you will get one that is conducive to life. In the same way that our planet and we were created; as the result of billions of things going our way, whereas in numerous other solar systems and planets, they haven't.

I've never been religious, and don't think I ever will be, so forgive me if this is a stupid question. I understand the idea of intelligent design, and I understand that many many things had to happen to create the universe this way. But if the universe (or multiverses) was/were created by something, who created that? Ultimately we're all looking at something of a leap of faith (poor choice of words) that something, at some point, came into being with no prior intervention. Some people believe it was the universe that came into existence, some believe it was God. But ultimately it's the same problem that we face.

 

[Biscuit]

How many universes are there? And which universe do you BELIEVE we live in?

Choose from this list of possible accounts of our universe:-


The absurd universe
It just happens to be that way.

The unique universe
There is a deep underlying unity in physics which necessitates the universe being this way. Some 'Theory of Everything' will explain why the various features of the Universe must have exactly the values that we see.

The multiverse
Multiple Universes exist which have all possible combinations of characteristics, and we naturally find ourselves within the one that supports our existence.

Creationism
A "Creator" designed the Universe specifically to support complexity and the emergence of Intelligence.

The life principle
There is an underlying principle that constrains the universe to evolve towards life and mind.

The self-explaining universe
A closed explanatory or causal loop: 'perhaps only universes with a capacity for consciousness can exist'.

The fake universe
We are living in a virtual reality simulation.


And when you've decided, explain what makes your "belief" different from some sort of religious explanation .

Sweet. I'm going for the self-explanatory universe because it sounds cool and Gods lovely.

Nailed.