[Albion] Backs to the wall in Premier League or Brazil 1970 in The Championship?

[Guinness Boy]

That's good news (the first bit - your recovery). Very good news.

Thinking about your subtext....and I will add caveats (I would, wouldn't I?), I want the lovely football to continue, and the club to imprint a DNA via the owner and manager in the way that Klopp has transformed the DNA of Liverpool and, until Levien and Kaplan took over the club, how Jenkins changed the DNA of Swansea. Yes, the lovely football may take us down....

In my line of work, I could have cut corners, been a 'flash Harry' (sic) and would be looking at retiring now as a professor with a legacy of dozens of grumpy former students and a reputation as a higher achiever, but who had in fact discovered nothing of value, published nothing that was credible, and succeeded in doing nothing more than warming the air in the local region. I would rather be relatively unknown but highly regarded by a small number of people I respect*. I have still paid the bills and my finest academic achievement looks like being my last rather than my first. Whatever, I will look back at my career with full satisfaction. I'd like to think that Tony Bloom will do the same at his tenure as BHA owner, perhaps with G-Pott instrumental in that satisfaction.

We are all good here, with (yes more) caveats (Christmas....relatives....etc.). Amazon has been my friend. The house is big enough for we three. And the Kent countryside and coasts have many empty spaces. I have put on a stone, but I was already a stone overweight, so it's . . . disappointing, as G-Pott would say. Among the many surprising events of the year is I have discovered that I'm not quite the ticket in the old mind tank ('on the spectrum' apparently) which, paradoxically, has helped me keep sane because, frankly, I find interacting with people, in a 'room full of human flesh and hot breath' situation, not to my taste, so the relative solitude has been soothing. On the other hand, well, you've probably seen that some of my NSC posts have been a bit, angry and emotional
.
I look forward to beers on the W Upper concourse towards the end of this season, after we old fuggers (I mean me not you) have been vaccinated. I'm sure Boris can't cock that up, can he?

Take care and have a lovely Christmas with your family. HTW

*unfortunately they all think I'm a ****

Thank you matey. Maybe a bit off topic but that's a lovely, honest and funny post. I can't wait until we're chewing the fat over beer instead with a big crowd building up behind us. All the best again

 

[Guinness Boy]

No idea I stopped listening to the Roar after it became very repetitive. Is it one their cliquey guests?

Anyway, of course I would prefer to be playing defensive football in a higher league than attacking football in a lower poorer league, like I said I am a fan and want us to be the best we can possibly be.

Cliquey guests? No. It was Henry Winter, the chief football writer of The Times

I've quoted the question verbatim as well so it has not changed at all. You've misunderstood it. Probably because you are terrible at critical thinking. Twist it all you want, everyone on NSC knows it.

Still, it's nice to see you coming out in favour of Potter Out - unless you're looking for him to become more pragmatic? Brazil '70 is the Potter answer.

 

[Guinness Boy]

What’s Pele up to these days ?


Could do a job .

Is the answer "not losing 7-0"?

 

[Icy Gull]

Are all other clubs as angsty as us?

Did I say it’s a shit poll? Since when have we been playing defensive football under Potter? I wonder how many others have chosen not to vote in this very slewed poll.

I’d like to have seen an option for “continue playing as we are and hope we can turn it around” or suchlike. That would have got my vote

 

[neilbard]

Think Lamptey, away at Spurs...

Yes, I had forgotten that, must be all the dross since then that's addled my brain.

 

[zefarelly]

Think Lamptey, away at Spurs...

or mirror it, edit the ball ricochet off the bar/post/defender/other post/hit a seagull/bottle top/flying pie and it's Manure at home

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Are all other clubs as angsty as us?

Did I say it’s a shit poll? Since when have we been playing defensive football under Potter? I wonder how many others have chosen not to vote in this very slewed poll.

I’d like to have seen an option for “continue playing as we are and hope we can turn it around” or suchlike. That would have got my vote

I made the same mistake initially, but @Guiness boy has actually asked a very precise and nuanced question. I'm not sure it can be answered by most of us without caveats, though, I must admit.

Regarding caveats, perception and process are everything: people seem to see different things during a game, and even when they see the same thing they can process their assessment quite differently. For example, I see all the subtle little things Ali J does, and I think that he can be coached to give a lot to the side. Others see nothing but a little boy lost who isn't even an actual footballer. Likewise, VAR....some only remember the spuds and Manu 'robberies' and forget the Liverpool and Villa games.

My point? We often feel an imperative to be decisive. Maybe it's a bloke thing. But usually it's better to to take a measured view. I appreciate that this isn't why most of us watch football though.

All the best

 

[Icy Gull]

I made the same mistake initially, but @Guiness boy has actually asked a very precise and nuanced question. I'm not sure it can be answered by most of us without caveats, though, I must admit.

Regarding caveats, perception and process are everything: people seem to see different things during a game, and even when they see the same thing they can process their assessment quite differently. For example, I see all the subtle little things Ali J does, and I think that he can be coached to give a lot to the side. Others see nothing but a little boy lost who isn't even an actual footballer. Likewise, VAR....some only remember the spuds and Manu 'robberies' and forget the Liverpool and Villa games.

My point? We often feel an imperative to be decisive. Maybe it's a bloke thing. But usually it's better to to take a measured view. I appreciate that this isn't why most of us watch football though.

All the best

Perhaps I’m being thick here then! So this poll has absolutely no relevance to who is currently managing us and is just a random poll with two options concerning the style and level you’d choose to see the Albion playing at ?

 

[Guinness Boy]

Are all other clubs as angsty as us?

Did I say it’s a shit poll? Since when have we been playing defensive football under Potter? I wonder how many others have chosen not to vote in this very slewed poll.

I’d like to have seen an option for “continue playing as we are and hope we can turn it around” or suchlike. That would have got my vote

No one's forcing you to vote. As I said to Plooks the question was posed to Brighton fans by one of the most senior football journalists in this country. He's on twitter if you want to call him shit but I wouldn't expect an answer.

Surely you can see that if we get to March and we are in or around the relegation zone we face a choice between pragmatism and carry on regardless. I had you in the latter camp from all your posts on here because you've often said we should keep Potter if we go down. Surely that's the whole point of the Brazil answer?

Of course, it would be great to stay up playing our way but it's not happening right now is it

 

[Icy Gull]

No one's forcing you to vote. As I said to Plooks the question was posed to Brighton fans by one of the most senior football journalists in this country. He's on twitter if you want to call him shit but I wouldn't expect an answer.

Surely you can see that if we get to March and we are in or around the relegation zone we face a choice between pragmatism and carry on regardless. I had you in the latter camp from all your posts on here because you've often said we should keep Potter if we go down. Surely that's the whole point of the Brazil answer?

Of course, it would be great to stay up playing our way but it's not happening right now is it

I’ll wait until March to vote then but as things stand right now I’ll go for Keep Calm and Carry On Regardless

Of course we would need to be pragmatic if we are in and around the zone in March, isn’t that how we played in the last few games last season?

 

[Guinness Boy]

I’ll wait until March to vote then but as things stand right now I’ll go for Keep Calm and Carry On Regardless

Fair enough Icy.

Three things FWIW. 1) 6 points from West Ham and Arsenal and things look different and they are two sides that suit us - two wins are entirely possible, though I have dialled down my expectations in the hope I don't have a tantrum on here if we fail in both. 2) Though we don't agree I do think that whenever fans get back in the ground in bigger numbers we need to massively get behind the team, whoever is in charge. We can debate on here, and people do because no one is going to games and the pubs are shut. But if this vaccine kicks in we need to make the Amex a cauldron of positive noise.3) Happy Xmas.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Perhaps I’m being thick here then! So this poll has absolutely no relevance to who is currently managing us and is just a random poll with two options concerning the style and level you’d choose to see the Albion playing at ?

Yyyyy.....yes. I think so.

 

[jamie the seagull]

Premier League all day long.
Aston Villa showing how a teams fortunes can change quickly from one season to another.
Championship is too many games midweek so i would miss the majority.
Less is more game wise....
Those wanting the Championship would need us to lose to ensure we do not get promoted again so the point of that is......

 

[zefarelly]

Pragmatism has been mentioned a few times, and what I alluded to elsewhere . . . . at what point do we park the Brazil approach and do a WImbledon to ensure our safety/future. I'd have thought the last 2 games were that time. ROme wasn't built in a day, and thery must have had a few repairs to make along the way.

 

[BeHereNow]

This obsession fans have with being in The Championship is strange. VERY strange.

I dread the thought of having to go to places like Barnsley knowing that anything other than a win on our way to an expected promotion will be deemed a failure.

I really don’t miss playing at The Amex with smaller crowds either. Yes, we had some of the highest crowds for the league, but I don’t miss the swathes of empty seats around the away end. It really isn’t a good look.

If the only thing you care about is winning, then support a team that does a lot more,

We could quite easily be in League 1 again, destroying teams like Fleetwood Town and Portsmouth every week. That would be nowhere near as exciting or as competitive as beating Arsenal home and away in the PL.

Since we’ve been in the PL, we’ve pretty much exceeded most expectations and fans still aren’t happy. We’ve beaten Manchester United, Tottenham Hotspur and Arsenal, but no, there are fans that would rather us be beating Bristol City on a Tuesday night in front of 12,000.

To me, it’s about being at the best possible level we can be. Yes, it means losing a lot of games, but it makes the wins so much more sweeter.

 

[Arthur]

This obsession fans have with being in The Championship is strange. VERY strange.

I don't find it strange at all. Championship is a great league, more games, more competitive and most importantly no VAR!

I dread the thought of having to go to places like Barnsley knowing that anything other than a win on our way to an expected promotion will be deemed a failure.

Barnsley is a great day out, proper football ground, serving the community that supports it in a proper football town. Loads of those days out in the lower leagues. Very few in the prem.

I really don’t miss playing at The Amex with smaller crowds either. Yes, we had some of the highest crowds for the league, but I don’t miss the swathes of empty seats around the away end. It really isn’t a good look.

Good look for who? Who sits and looks at their telly and goes "ooooooooh look at all those empty seats in the away end"?

If the only thing you care about is winning, then support a team that does a lot more,

No thanks, I've invested 30+ years of following this football club through more thin than thick. Bloody well wouldn't have swapped any of it.

We could quite easily be in League 1 again, destroying teams like Fleetwood Town and Portsmouth every week. That would be nowhere near as exciting or as competitive as beating Arsenal home and away in the PL.

But beating Arsenal happens once a season and yes it is brilliant but like any result its forgotten when the next game comes along.

Since we’ve been in the PL, we’ve pretty much exceeded most expectations and fans still aren’t happy. We’ve beaten Manchester United, Tottenham Hotspur and Arsenal, but no, there are fans that would rather us be beating Bristol City on a Tuesday night in front of 12,000.

How have we exceeded expectations? First year was about staying up, we did it.....just. Second season stay up again maybe kick on a little.....stayed up but didn't kick on. Likewise the third season. Fourth season looks like being more of the same. At no point since we've been in the premier league do I think we've exceeded expectations. If we are only ever going to have a relegation battle then **** that.

To me, it’s about being at the best possible level we can be. Yes, it means losing a lot of games, but it makes the wins so much more sweeter.

Fair enough and I can understand that but you also need to understand many of us fell in love with a game that is very different to the one we are watching now. The premier league whilst it is a brilliant competition with some of the best players in a the world and is a great spectacle its not where we have ever or probably ever will belong. I can't ever seeing us being competitive in it and therefore its pretty ****ing boring truth be told. For all the good stuff the premier league has to offer it also has some of the worst.

I have a decision to make at the end of this season as my season ticket is up for renewal. Do I want to commit for another 5 years of this? Probably not. VAR has been the final nail in the coffin for me but my interest had waned before it. I'd rather go and watch county league football.

 

[sydney]

Championship is the highest level of football in the world as all of the best leagues have converted into VARball. If Safe Standing is implemented in the Championship in a few years, they should also implement the system they have in the Dutch third league - if you win you dont need to be promoted, you could just choose to keep chilling in a league where things are more fun and less expensive.

(I'm half joking.. but top leagues are generally not that fun if you're not a top team)

i get ya . i watched the sheff u game with daughters bf a man u fan .....he couldn't get why we were so shit compared to when we played them which we also watched together , an equal amount of shouting and foul language was involved.

here's the rub .......mr bloom has pumped nigh on 300 million pounds into this set up ......IF he were to sell a 40% share in the business for say 160 million .... feasible , he recoups half his losses and has enough money to buy 3 "marque players" the likes of grealish , ward prowse , ings.....notice ..! ronaldo , messi , mbappe , neymar youre looking at 80 million at least each ....soooooooooo....bloom sells a major stake in the club , buys 3 marque or 2 world class players , is back where he started financially and now owns minus 40% of the club and still has to pay all those new lads astronomical wages.....it'll sink in soon ..

 

[zefarelly]

You clearly weren't around in the Goldstone days.

This obsession fans have with being in The Championship is strange. VERY strange.

I dread the thought of having to go to places like Barnsley knowing that anything other than a win on our way to an expected promotion will be deemed a failure.

I really don’t miss playing at The Amex with smaller crowds either. Yes, we had some of the highest crowds for the league, but I don’t miss the swathes of empty seats around the away end. It really isn’t a good look.

If the only thing you care about is winning, then support a team that does a lot more,

We could quite easily be in League 1 again, destroying teams like Fleetwood Town and Portsmouth every week. That would be nowhere near as exciting or as competitive as beating Arsenal home and away in the PL.

Since we’ve been in the PL, we’ve pretty much exceeded most expectations and fans still aren’t happy. We’ve beaten Manchester United, Tottenham Hotspur and Arsenal, but no, there are fans that would rather us be beating Bristol City on a Tuesday night in front of 12,000.

To me, it’s about being at the best possible level we can be. Yes, it means losing a lot of games, but it makes the wins so much more sweeter.

 

[BeHereNow]

I don't find it strange at all. Championship is a great league, more games, more competitive and most importantly no VAR!



Barnsley is a great day out, proper football ground, serving the community that supports it in a proper football town. Loads of those days out in the lower leagues. Very few in the prem.



Good look for who? Who sits and looks at their telly and goes "ooooooooh look at all those empty seats in the away end"?



No thanks, I've invested 30+ years of following this football club through more thin than thick. Bloody well wouldn't have swapped any of it.



But beating Arsenal happens once a season and yes it is brilliant but like any result its forgotten when the next game comes along.



How have we exceeded expectations? First year was about staying up, we did it.....just. Second season stay up again maybe kick on a little.....stayed up but didn't kick on. Likewise the third season. Fourth season looks like being more of the same. At no point since we've been in the premier league do I think we've exceeded expectations. If we are only ever going to have a relegation battle then **** that.



Fair enough and I can understand that but you also need to understand many of us fell in love with a game that is very different to the one we are watching now. The premier league whilst it is a brilliant competition with some of the best players in a the world and is a great spectacle its not where we have ever or probably ever will belong. I can't ever seeing us being competitive in it and therefore its pretty ****ing boring truth be told. For all the good stuff the premier league has to offer it also has some of the worst.

I have a decision to make at the end of this season as my season ticket is up for renewal. Do I want to commit for another 5 years of this? Probably not. VAR has been the final nail in the coffin for me but my interest had waned before it. I'd rather go and watch county league football.

Well, I think it is strange, you want us to be competitive...in a lower league. That is small time mentality, that’s like being a middleweight and wanting to fight a featherweight. We’ve moved on from that level, our level now is trying to get a foothold in the PL, that’s going to take time, you have to be patient, the club realise that.

Barnsley may be a great day out, but I bet it would still be a great day out in the PL, you say as if it wouldn’t be though.

I said empty seats AROUND the away end, and yes, when I see empty seats I think it looks a bit shit compared to having fans in them.

Well, beating Arsenal or teams like Arsenal hasn’t happened just once a season, if it had you may have a point.

Since being in the PL:
Beaten Manchester United 2 times
Beaten Arsenal 3 times and drawn 2 times
Beaten Tottenham Hotspur once and drawn once
Drawn with the champions Liverpool
Drawn with Chelsea
Beaten Everton twice and drawn once
and quite a few other games against the big teams where we came very close to getting results. If someone told me we would do that in nearly 3 and a half season when we were in The Championship, I would’ve thought they were mad! So, yes, we’ve exceeded our expectations in terms of big results. I 100% believed we would be in a relegation battle for at least 5 season once we got promoted.

You say ‘**** that’ for staying in the best league in the world. **** winning away at Bristol City in The Championship and pretending it means as much as winning away in the PL. Presumably you’d be happy to see us in The Conference because we’ll be the big boys smashing teams week in, week out, I’d just feel sorry for the opponents tbh.

We’ve been brilliantly competitive against the top teams in probably about 80% of the games, that, to me, is the best we could’ve hoped for. I really don’t know what you expected. We’ve even got to the semi final of the FA Cup, that wouldn’t have happened if we were in The Championship and I expect us to do a lot better in the cups whilst in the PL.

I understand that football is different to when you started going, but I think that is football in general, sure the PL does have a few more evils, but I don’t think VAR will last, not in the way it currently is anyway. Don’t let the losing get you down, we’ve been so close to getting better results this season and with a bit more luck we’d be on at least 6 more points.

At the end of the day, it’s about how you look at it, we’re at the start of our PL journey, it’s going to take a lot of time and building to progress, but I’m ready to wait. I’m quite content with us winning 10-12 games a season (as long as we stay up) and don’t need 30+ wins to make me enjoy it.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I don't find it strange at all. Championship is a great league, more games, more competitive and most importantly no VAR!



Barnsley is a great day out, proper football ground, serving the community that supports it in a proper football town. Loads of those days out in the lower leagues. Very few in the prem.



Good look for who? Who sits and looks at their telly and goes "ooooooooh look at all those empty seats in the away end"?



No thanks, I've invested 30+ years of following this football club through more thin than thick. Bloody well wouldn't have swapped any of it.



But beating Arsenal happens once a season and yes it is brilliant but like any result its forgotten when the next game comes along.



How have we exceeded expectations? First year was about staying up, we did it.....just. Second season stay up again maybe kick on a little.....stayed up but didn't kick on. Likewise the third season. Fourth season looks like being more of the same. At no point since we've been in the premier league do I think we've exceeded expectations. If we are only ever going to have a relegation battle then **** that.



Fair enough and I can understand that but you also need to understand many of us fell in love with a game that is very different to the one we are watching now. The premier league whilst it is a brilliant competition with some of the best players in a the world and is a great spectacle its not where we have ever or probably ever will belong. I can't ever seeing us being competitive in it and therefore its pretty ****ing boring truth be told. For all the good stuff the premier league has to offer it also has some of the worst.

I have a decision to make at the end of this season as my season ticket is up for renewal. Do I want to commit for another 5 years of this? Probably not. VAR has been the final nail in the coffin for me but my interest had waned before it. I'd rather go and watch county league football.

This in bucket loads.