Nonsense -Bendtner's meant to be a giant whose far too soft. Barnes is about as opposite of him as you can get, early last seson whenever he missed he kept going in there. Sorry but Gus' view and 20 league one goals means that all those who have gone on about him are wrong; pity they cant take being proved to be wrong though.
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Ashley Barnes - Your opinion
- Thread starter OSRGull
- Start date
Nonsense -Bendtner's meant to be a giant whose far too soft. Barnes is about as opposite of him as you can get, early last seson whenever he missed he kept going in there. Sorry but Gus' view and 20 league one goals means that all those who have gone on about him are wrong; pity they cant take being proved to be wrong though.
He's scoring goals, improving every game, works hard and never gives up....ok, his first touch and hold up play could be better but they are working on that. With CMS alongside him, if one doesn't score the other one will...I see at least 15 goals from him this season.
You really cant fault Barnes. His job is to score goals and thats exactly what he's done since the day he got here.
He's already proved he can do it in the Champ so I think the debate should really be over. He's got the knack of getting in the right place at the right time and he's improving every week. Case closed.
He's already proved he can do it in the Champ so I think the debate should really be over. He's got the knack of getting in the right place at the right time and he's improving every week. Case closed.
Dick Knights Mumm
Take me Home Falmer Road
Nice thought - but this will run and run and run and run. We could be in the Champions League and Barnes has scored a hat-trick against Real Madrid and some people will think he should have scored five.
- Thread starter
- #106
Because I wanted to know peoples opinion on Barnes, is that so bad?
Hotchilidog
Well-known member
- Jan 24, 2009
- 8,816
Good to see plenty of comments supporting Barnes for a change. I think he has been superb for us since his arrival.
For me Barnes is primarily a space player and he looks at his least effective when he is asked to lead the line. At this stage in his career he has neither the strength or the pace to lead the line. However when he has had to fulfil this role he has just got on with it and for me that shows his attitude is spot on and he will learn.
Then there is his first touch. Some players the ball seems to stick to their feet, with Barnes his first touch often looks a little awkward. He seems to push the ball into his own space rather than trap it. The net result is he draws a lot of fouls, but also does an excellent job of retaining possession in key areas.
For those who say he is a little one dimensional, I think you are really missing the point. I watched Joe Gatting play a number of times in the first team and he was a penalty box player. Gatting was very good at losing his marker around the back post and got in some great positions. Sadly at Div 1 level he was able to demonstrate little else. Barnes on the other hand is going from strength to strength and if he can stay injury free and continue to develop, yes he COULD become a premiership player. Let's see how he measure up tonight.
Then there is his first touch. Some players the ball seems to stick to their feet, with Barnes his first touch often looks a little awkward. He seems to push the ball into his own space rather than trap it. The net result is he draws a lot of fouls, but also does an excellent job of retaining possession in key areas.
For those who say he is a little one dimensional, I think you are really missing the point. I watched Joe Gatting play a number of times in the first team and he was a penalty box player. Gatting was very good at losing his marker around the back post and got in some great positions. Sadly at Div 1 level he was able to demonstrate little else. Barnes on the other hand is going from strength to strength and if he can stay injury free and continue to develop, yes he COULD become a premiership player. Let's see how he measure up tonight.
I don't see how you can fault him. Hes paid to score goals and he does that on a regular basis. Thats his job and he does it well, anything else he contributes is a bonus.
Mr Burns
New member
Glad you aint my lawyer!! Case closed. I think its far from that.
I've been impressed this season with Barnes work rate, definately up on last year.
His 4 goals in 5 is an incrtedible return, but I bet most you have once again used his goals ratio haven't seen alll the games this season.
His first touch is still very poor, and for a team that knock the ball around as we do, thats not good.
He still goes down far to frequently and easily and he needs to stop that as soon as poss.
Less not kid ourselves though that Barnes would be in the team if it wasn't for Hoskins injury, and this new striker if he comes, is likely to be above Barnes in the pecking order, so if we end up with 4 fit strikers, I still see Barnes on the bench at best.
Now the goals. As I said 4 in 5 is great, but lets not get carried away. 2 have been pens. And be honest with yourselves, they have been very poor pens. If the keeper went the right way, both would be saved. The Gillingham one was hit at pace, but in a perfect position for a falling keeper, the Cardiff one looked stuffed and again perfect for a keeper going the right way. I would bet if the away team does there homework, the next pen, the keeper will stand tall and dive after its taken. You cannot get away from the fact the pens have been poor.
The goal against Blackpool was class. Well worked, arrived late, and the perfect goal. Full marks for that one.
What about the 35 yarder at Cardiff. Well good that he took the shot on, but how many of us, myself included, would have been very very diappointed if that had got past super Casper? It looked a great goal, but seriosuly a championship keeper should save them all day long. The keepers reaction afterwards said it all.
Time will tell, but has he done enough to convince this poster. Nowhere near, although I admit he is improving, he's still head and shoulders below the rest of the squad, and when the injuries clear up and new striker arrives and the dust settles, then we'll have a clearer picture.
Whether you agree or disagree, try and debate and not start with the patethic name calling, cause I'll deliver it back with interest.
For £60,000, he represents fantastic value. For a third choice striker to score 20 in his first season is an incredible return. Gus had five strikers at the end of last season, he let four go, and Gus has consistently proved us wrong in the past (El Abd, Nicky Forster etc), so I will certainly give him full support in respect of Digger.
Would I rather Murray have stayed and Barnes left, YES.
Would I rather have Ricky Lambert in the team, YES, but he would cost another £3 million.
He is difficult to pigeon hole as a striker, not great in the air (compared to the likes of Murray), yet he scores his fair number of headed goals. Not a human dynamo like CMS, but he still closes down defenders. Not a thunderbolt shot like Lambert, but he still knows where the back of the net is.
Would I rather Murray have stayed and Barnes left, YES.
Would I rather have Ricky Lambert in the team, YES, but he would cost another £3 million.
He is difficult to pigeon hole as a striker, not great in the air (compared to the likes of Murray), yet he scores his fair number of headed goals. Not a human dynamo like CMS, but he still closes down defenders. Not a thunderbolt shot like Lambert, but he still knows where the back of the net is.
You cannot get away from the fact the pens have been poor.
.
Interesting use of the term fact. FYI a good penalty is one that results in a goal. Any other result could be construed as poor, but you may require westy as your lawyer to argue that case.
Mr Burns
New member
So you've never seen a class penalty, resulting in an even classier save?
FYI a good penalty is one that goes in an gives the keeper no chance. A good penalty is one that goes in even if the keeper dives the right way and can't get near it.
IMO a poor penalty is one a keeper could easily save if he dives the right way. Both so far imo fall firmly in this category, and have been lucky... 50/50 lucky as if the keeper guessed the right way, he'd have saved them.
Look at it this way. If the keeper had guessed different and dived the other way and saved them, then what. Would they still have been good penalties in your opinion, even though Barnes' would have done exactly the same?
Next.
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Dick Knights Mumm
Take me Home Falmer Road
Mr B - it is not lucky if you send the keeper the wrong way shirley ?
I don't think it's so easy to categorise penalties as good or bad, because there are so many ways they are taken or faced.
Sometimes the taker decideds where he's aiming and sticks to it. Sometimes they wait for the keeper to move.
Sometimes the keeper facing it picks a side to dive to, sometimes they wait to see where the taker kicks it.
Sometimes mind games come into play, with stuttering run ups, with jiggly legs. Some strikers like to look at one particular area of the goal as if they are determined to hit it there, then go the other way, some keepers try to read the eyes and determine if it's focus or a bluff. When I was in goal I preferred the tactic of all through the build up subtly favouring one side, making it look like I'd made up my mind to go one way then diving the other way. You then get into a game with the taker as to whether you're really going that way or not, particularly if they take more than one.
No penalty is unsaveable if you are in the right place and move fast enough/jump well enough.
How can you know whether the keepers in both Ashley's penalties went the way they did because they were guessing, because they were thrown by his eyes, because they tried to force him to go that way and failed?
You don't. If he threw them with his eyes, if he saw threw their attempts to sway him and slotted it where he knew they wouldn't be the penalty would appear exactly as it would if he just go lucky.
Sometimes the taker decideds where he's aiming and sticks to it. Sometimes they wait for the keeper to move.
Sometimes the keeper facing it picks a side to dive to, sometimes they wait to see where the taker kicks it.
Sometimes mind games come into play, with stuttering run ups, with jiggly legs. Some strikers like to look at one particular area of the goal as if they are determined to hit it there, then go the other way, some keepers try to read the eyes and determine if it's focus or a bluff. When I was in goal I preferred the tactic of all through the build up subtly favouring one side, making it look like I'd made up my mind to go one way then diving the other way. You then get into a game with the taker as to whether you're really going that way or not, particularly if they take more than one.
No penalty is unsaveable if you are in the right place and move fast enough/jump well enough.
How can you know whether the keepers in both Ashley's penalties went the way they did because they were guessing, because they were thrown by his eyes, because they tried to force him to go that way and failed?
You don't. If he threw them with his eyes, if he saw threw their attempts to sway him and slotted it where he knew they wouldn't be the penalty would appear exactly as it would if he just go lucky.
Mr Burns
New member
Time will well with that in this case.
I think there is a certain amount of luck, as so many bluffs and double bluffs goes on, I think a certain amount of luck comes into it, absolutely.... and don't call me Shirley
Falmer Flutter ©
Well-known member
Exactly. Both times he's waited for the keeper to move and calmly stuck it the other side. How can you honestly not see that? 
What a load of utter shit.
Taking a penalty is a duel between you and the keeper. Its not only about where you place it, or how hard you hit it (unless you favour the Julian Dicks 'style'). Its about using your eyes, and / or your body shape, to send the keeper the wrong way. If you can successfully do this, then you are better to keep the ball a yard inside the post, at a comfortable height, than to aim right for the corner and risk hitting the post.
I play at a piss poor Sunday League level - I'd never suggest anything different, but the principles are the same. I've scored 22 of 24 penalties I've taken, and the keeper goes the wrong way at LEAST 80% of the time. Its very little to do with luck.
You score, its a good penalty. FACT.
Mr Burns
New member
I think you've proved my point really. There are so many varibles, bluffs and double bluffs, is does all come down to chance. The penalty against Gillingham, was hit with so much power, I would be 99.9% certain Ashley's picked that spot very early on and went for it. I wouldn't have thought he could have changed his mind if the keeper went that way very very early. The one at Cardiff looked liked a skuff from where I was int he stand, and also looks that way on telly. As both were very saveable and closer to the center of the goal than the corners, I stick with what I said and say they were poor penalties, particaully the Cardiff one.