[Politics] Are Labour going to turn this country around?

[Chicken Run]

They really are.

Especially given the circumstances, Starmer and his government are really doing a phenomenal job. They are doing what they can to address all the key issues that we are all concerned about. It is really refreshing, and exciting.

But what I find genuinely depressing is that the right-wing media is SO influencial, that people can't see what a phenomenal effort this is.

It wouldn't surprise me if our idiotic morons that make up our electorate f*** things up for generations by voting in Reform at the next election. I am praying that, somehow, the truth prevails and this Labour government gets a second term.

Nope, Retard UK will never form a Government in this country, purely a protest party

 

[jcdenton08]

Nope, Retard UK will never form a Government in this country, purely a protest party

Not so sure per my last post in this thread.

(Ignoring your clever substitution of the word “Reform” for “Retard”).

 

[armchairclubber]

Starmer continues to be one of the most unprincipled and dishonest people in politics.

This

It is. He completely misrepresented himself and his politics to gain leadership of the party and now uses language that would have Enoch Powell in delight. I don't really know how Labour party MPs/members can accept this lurch to the hard right.

There has been no lurch. They elected a member of the establishment and self proclaimed zionist as Leader and PM.
Also finding safe seats and positions for others in alignment.
They, in general with a few exceptions, have exactly what they voted for (and will continue to defend it)

 

[Bodian]

So will you put a figure on migration?

No.

Why not?

Because previous Prime Ministers have, and you can see they've failed.

Can't fault his logic though!

Starmer or Farage? They both seem to have said the same thing really.

 

[Bodian]

You seem to be ignoring the word 'soaring'.

One of the things I like about Starmer is the precision of his language. Not a word is wasted, he rarely makes an ambiguous statement.

It is a wondrous contrast to the bluster of Boris, the fantasising of Farage and the tripe from Trump.

He didn't actually use the word 'soaring' either. His actual words were in the White Paper. He's basically said 'no-one voted for immigration levels to rise to four times the level they were in 2019, and we wish to bring those levels back down'

In 2023, under the previous government, inward migration exploded to over a million people a year – four times the level compared with 2019. This was a political choice that was never put before the British people. In fact, quite the opposite – the previous government repeatedly promised inward migration would be brought under control. Instead, Britain became a one-nation experiment in open borders.

The damage this has done to our country is incalculable. Public services and housing access have been placed under too much pressure. Our economy has been distorted by perverse incentives to import workers rather than invest in our own skills. In sectors like engineering, for example, apprenticeships have almost halved while visas doubled.

But arguably even worse is the wound this failure has opened when it comes to trust in politics. It is a wound, as I said on my first day as prime minister, that can only be healed by actions not words. This white paper is just that.

 

[BenGarfield]

What is 'newly created money'? You dont seriously mean just printing more do you?

The government creates new money whenever it spends as do commercial banks when they issue loans. It’s all new money. Money is withdrawn from the economy by taxation

 

[Hugo Rune]

SKS is now repeating concerns that many have raised by many over the past few years.

Such people were called racists and bigots.

The conservatives inherited large net migration figures in 2010.

Net migration to UK in 2010 at record high - BBC News

Annual net migration to the UK was 252,000 in 2010 - the highest calendar year figure on record, Office for National Statistics figures show.

www.bbc.co.uk

Through 14 years of government, as they turned the figure from +250k to +906k, I heard a lot of their MPs, ministers and supporters parrot concerns about immigration. However, as true conservatives, their concerns were generally only for their own wealth and career progression as they finally achieved the thing that has had the greatest affect on immigration in their time in office, Brexit. Workers from EU countries such as Poland would come and go depending on the job market. As soon as this tap was turned off, the country was exposed to migrants who will never return to their countries of origin.

Whilst when the likes of Johnson and Farridge gave the EU two fingers, we lost their support in terms of keeping non-EU migrants out of the country, it's the legal migration that has overwhelmingly caused the figures to sky rocket whilst the right wing media and right wing populists blamed 'the boats'.

If Labour can reduce net migration by 100k per year in office, they'll be doing very well but I'm keen to see how they'll be replenishing the workforce.

With over 11 million working age people in the UK without a job, surely we already have the bodies to fill the vacancies:

Who are the millions of Britons not working, and why? - BBC News

About a quarter of the working age population - those aged 16 to 64 - do not currently have a job.

www.bbc.co.uk

How do we get them back to work? Well Farridge wants to pay them £30 a month more (or so) whilst stripping them of various workers rights. That's obviously not going to work. I await with interest to see how the current government will try and incentivise and inspire those who 'can work but won't' into careers. It may well be (as the Tories demonstrated with extraordinary generational increases in net migration) cheaper and more practical to continue to ship in many more legal migrants.

 

[clapham_gull]

Brexit.

Workers from the EU coming in and out as the market dictated. Just a short flight home.

Replaced by workers from much further afield from poorer backgrounds who needed an incentive (the right to bring their families here) and were willing to work for low wages.

If you voted leave own it.

 

[mr sheen]

I'd have to see the detail regarding the care sector, something I know a little about.

Post Brexit there was a mad rush to import carers and a number fell into a trap of no fault of their own. Basically they were scammed.

They are saying these people are an "available" pool, but I really like to see how many have been identified or came forward.

You've had a lack of investment in community nursing. If a carer can't get hold of a doctor or nurse, they will call an ambulance and the person ends up (sometimes necessarily) in A&E.

.. and round and round we go.

I do think so (where possible) families need to take a bigger responsibility in looking after their elderly relatives and the system should make it so.

This would alleviate strain on the care system. It's no coincidence that many carers from abroad come from cultures where they simply move the relative in.

'Scrapping social care worker visas is a reasonable evidence-based move' - LabourList

Today’s attacks on Labour for scrapping care worker visas are over-blown.

labourlist-org.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[Chicken Run]

It seems our Prime Minister is quite literally on fire ( well two of his properties are)

Police probe fires at two properties linked to Starmer https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c9wgrngplnro

 

[darkwolf666]

The conservatives inherited large net migration figures in 2010.

Net migration to UK in 2010 at record high - BBC News

Annual net migration to the UK was 252,000 in 2010 - the highest calendar year figure on record, Office for National Statistics figures show.

www.bbc.co.uk

Through 14 years of government, as they turned the figure from +250k to +906k, I heard a lot of their MPs, ministers and supporters parrot concerns about immigration. However, as true conservatives, their concerns were generally only for their own wealth and career progression as they finally achieved the thing that has had the greatest affect on immigration in their time in office, Brexit. Workers from EU countries such as Poland would come and go depending on the job market. As soon as this tap was turned off, the country was exposed to migrants who will never return to their countries of origin.

Whilst when the likes of Johnson and Farridge gave the EU two fingers, we lost their support in terms of keeping non-EU migrants out of the country, it's the legal migration that has overwhelmingly caused the figures to sky rocket whilst the right wing media and right wing populists blamed 'the boats'.

If Labour can reduce net migration by 100k per year in office, they'll be doing very well but I'm keen to see how they'll be replenishing the workforce.

With over 11 million working age people in the UK without a job, surely we already have the bodies to fill the vacancies:

Who are the millions of Britons not working, and why? - BBC News

About a quarter of the working age population - those aged 16 to 64 - do not currently have a job.

www.bbc.co.uk

How do we get them back to work? Well Farridge wants to pay them £30 a month more (or so) whilst stripping them of various workers rights. That's obviously not going to work. I await with interest to see how the current government will try and incentivise and inspire those who 'can work but won't' into careers. It may well be (as the Tories demonstrated with extraordinary generational increases in net migration) cheaper and more practical to continue to ship in many more legal migrants.

While statistically true, you are just repeating the lazy trope put forward by the media regarding the numbers who are inactive in the employment market.

For example, in the figures you linked to over a millionn of the 50+ age group are retired, so I assume aren't drawing on the public purse strings?
1.6 million are 'unpaid' carers, saving the country billions a year in care costs.
2.4 million are students.
2.75 million are sick/disabled - unless one believes they are all shirking?

That's a total of nearly 8 million knocked off that 11 million figure, straight away. Then, the next thing is that those who want to work may not live in areas where the vacancies are or may not be able to uproot their family to start work elsewhere, potentially for a job with little security! Or their disabilities may mean they need special adaptations JUST to be able to work or even get to work.

It's far to easy to just parrot the tired lines to beat those out of work with*.


*As a matter of context, I fall into the inactive category myself, as a carer to a young man with multiple health challenges - I calculate if I were to work a 40 hour week, caring for him (I don't, it is more like 100 hours + per week - with no holidays), that I would be saving the government a minimum of £20,000 per year and more like £50,000 based on my actual hours, so currently somewhere between £160,000 and £400,000 saved. Yet, at the same time I fall into the inactive figures and are used a sledgehammer to crack the nut of those that do play the system, which again, are statistically few!

Just to further add insult to injury, I do actually become a pensioner next January, at which point I will lose the £83.30 a week Carer's Allowance I currently receive for looking after our young man, as you can't claim CA while a pensioner, as government (off all colour) don't understand or appreciate that some grandparents care for young people, thinking instead they care for those of similar ages or older than themselves, i.e. partners, parents, etc. However, he will still get my unreserved attention and love - just for free!!!

 

[Jim in the West]

I’m really starting to become extremely impressed with the Labour Government, and after perhaps a shaky start look to be getting a real handle on the things that are important to the electorate, the Conservative’s will disappear for at least 15 years at this rate.

It looks like they are VERY focused on the two things which will decide the next election - the economy and immigration. I’m not a fan of some of the rhetoric, but if Labour is to win a second term it absolutely MUST demonstrate that it has brought down net migration. The Tories will struggle to win many arguments, as their track record in government was so appalling.

 

[The Clamp]

We all know what happened the last time a PM tried to play this game with Farage.

We ended up having a ludicrous referendum on EU membership. Lost it. And crashed the UK.

Keir Starmer was so promising. Turns out he is a Tory.

 

[Hugo Rune]

While statistically true, you are just repeating the lazy trope put forward by the media regarding the numbers who are inactive in the employment market.

For example, in the figures you linked to over a millionn of the 50+ age group are retired, so I assume aren't drawing on the public purse strings?
1.6 million are 'unpaid' carers, saving the country billions a year in care costs.
2.4 million are students.
2.75 million are sick/disabled - unless one believes they are all shirking?

That's a total of nearly 8 million knocked off that 11 million figure, straight away. Then, the next thing is that those who want to work may not live in areas where the vacancies are or may not be able to uproot their family to start work elsewhere, potentially for a job with little security! Or their disabilities may mean they need special adaptations JUST to be able to work or even get to work.

It's far to easy to just parrot the tired lines to beat those out of work with*.


*As a matter of context, I fall into the inactive category myself, as a carer to a young man with multiple health challenges - I calculate if I were to work a 40 hour week, caring for him (I don't, it is more like 100 hours + per week - with no holidays), that I would be saving the government a minimum of £20,000 per year and more like £50,000 based on my actual hours, so currently somewhere between £160,000 and £400,000 saved. Yet, at the same time I fall into the inactive figures and are used a sledgehammer to crack the nut of those that do play the system, which again, are statistically few!

Just to further add insult to injury, I do actually become a pensioner next January, at which point I will lose the £83.30 a week Carer's Allowance I currently receive for looking after our young man, as you can't claim CA while a pensioner, as government (off all colour) don't understand or appreciate that some grandparents care for young people, thinking instead they care for those of similar ages or older than themselves, i.e. partners, parents, etc. However, he will still get my unreserved attention and love - just for free!!!

Thanks for adding that context. I shouldn't have quoted the 11 million figure as the details of who exactly those people are, are the very important. It's a lazy trope as you say.

I think we absolutely need net immigration but I'm sure we could get the figures a lot closer to the 1/4 million the Tories inherited if we created better opportunities, incentives, training and pay for the 3 million or so that are actually available to work. I dare say rejoining the EU would massively help too.

In terms of full time careers, I acknowledge that the government gets tremendous value out of people who look after family members full time and would absolutely support the extension of the carers allowance to pensioners.

 

[beorhthelm]

While statistically true, you are just repeating the lazy trope put forward by the media regarding the numbers who are inactive in the employment market.

For example, in the figures you linked to over a millionn of the 50+ age group are retired, so I assume aren't drawing on the public purse strings?
1.6 million are 'unpaid' carers, saving the country billions a year in care costs.
2.4 million are students.
2.75 million are sick/disabled - unless one believes they are all shirking?

That's a total of nearly 8 million knocked off that 11 million figure, straight away. Then, the next thing is that those who want to work may not live in areas where the vacancies are or may not be able to uproot their family to start work elsewhere, potentially for a job with little security! Or their disabilities may mean they need special adaptations JUST to be able to work or even get to work.

It's far to easy to just parrot the tired lines to beat those out of work with*.


*As a matter of context, I fall into the inactive category myself, as a carer to a young man with multiple health challenges - I calculate if I were to work a 40 hour week, caring for him (I don't, it is more like 100 hours + per week - with no holidays), that I would be saving the government a minimum of £20,000 per year and more like £50,000 based on my actual hours, so currently somewhere between £160,000 and £400,000 saved. Yet, at the same time I fall into the inactive figures and are used a sledgehammer to crack the nut of those that do play the system, which again, are statistically few!

Just to further add insult to injury, I do actually become a pensioner next January, at which point I will lose the £83.30 a week Carer's Allowance I currently receive for looking after our young man, as you can't claim CA while a pensioner, as government (off all colour) don't understand or appreciate that some grandparents care for young people, thinking instead they care for those of similar ages or older than themselves, i.e. partners, parents, etc. However, he will still get my unreserved attention and love - just for free!!!

its 6.75 according to those numbers. you're left with ~4 million people, shouldn't we at least start some conversation with how do we get a few million people into work when there is a shortage of people in jobs? just 1/4 would be enough to cover numbers floated for shortages in caring and building and leave many over for training in to NHS. and why cant people move to where work is, that's what people did for generations?

 

[carlzeiss]

More than 500 migrants arrived by boat yesterday , I wonder if any of these new folk could be persuaded that a career in the care industry could be a smart move

 

[darkwolf666]

Thanks for adding that context. I shouldn't have quoted the 11 million figure as the details of who exactly those people are, are the very important. It's a lazy trope as you say.

I think we absolutely need net immigration but I'm sure we could get the figures a lot closer to the 1/4 million the Tories inherited if we created better opportunities, incentives, training and pay for the 3 million or so that are actually available to work. I dare say rejoining the EU would massively help too.

In terms of full time careers, I acknowledge that the government gets tremendous value out of people who look after family members full time and would absolutely support the extension of the carers allowance to pensioners.

You get my vote...

 

[darkwolf666]

its 6.75 according to those numbers. you're left with ~4 million people, shouldn't we at least start some conversation with how do we get a few million people into work when there is a shortage of people in jobs? just 1/4 would be enough to cover numbers floated for shortages in caring and building and leave many over for training in to NHS. and why cant people move to where work is, that's what people did for generations?

I think you missed the 1 million "retired" in my earlier figures ..

Of course there should be attempts to get people into work, but again saying "people did it for generations" completely ignores the changes in employment security, zero hours contracts, housing costs, etc.

Even when Norman Tebbit delivered his "get on your bike" speech in 1981 he was shown to be out of step with modern life - and that was over 40 years ago!

 

[The Clamp]

We do need to be stricter with who we allow into our country and quicker to deport people.

Some cultures / faiths fit better in the U.K. than others.

Secular and moderate Christian cultures obviously work better and they have established great communities here. I’m thinking your Chinese, your Greeks.

Some not so much. The Muslim and fundamentalist Christian faiths don’t work so well. Middle Eastern and North African cultures seem to be at odds with ours.

It’s causing problems.


We need to reduce the amount of small boat crossings and get stricter and more efficient with our asylum process.

We need to be checking up on people housed in hotels. Make sure they are not working delivery jobs etc
And more importantly making sure (difficult) known offenders are sent home asap and while they are here, keep them locked up.

These people are not coming here to nurse your sick Mother. Trust me.

Something seriously needs to be done but while we have Starmer making hollow speeches to try and placate Reform voters and thus save his own career, we are doomed to fail.

 

[darkwolf666]

We do need to be stricter with who we allow into our country and quicker to deport people.

Some cultures / faiths fit better in the U.K. than others.

Secular and moderate Christian cultures obviously work better and they have established great communities here. I’m thinking your Chinese, your Greeks.

Some not so much. The Muslim and fundamentalist Christian faiths don’t work so well. Middle Eastern and North African cultures seem to be at odds with ours.

It’s causing problems.


We need to reduce the amount of small boat crossings and get stricter and more efficient with our asylum process.

We need to be checking up on people housed in hotels. Make sure they are not working delivery jobs etc
And more importantly making sure (difficult) known offenders are sent home asap and while they are here, keep them locked up.

These people are not coming here to nurse your sick Mother. Trust me.

Something seriously needs to be done but while we have Starmer making hollow speeches to try and placate Reform voters and thus save his own career, we are doomed to fail.

"These people", which people is that and what ARE they coming here for?