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Another one O/T - The Falklands 30 years on - genuine views please



This lady has got it nailed right on for me fleet street fox: Take a proper gander.

THIRTY years ago today Britain got its knickers in a twist about some islands which are 7,877 miles away.

The Argentinians, living a mere 1,192 miles away, thought they had more right to be in charge of them - influenced not just by geography but an economic crisis, domestic unrest and a military junta keen to deflect attention from its failings - and so they invaded.

Britain suddenly remembered those islands existed, that they were just about all that remained of its empire, and that more importantly the people who lived there didn't much fancy learning Spanish. The UN backed Blighty's right to repel invaders, and off a task force sailed.

There followed a two month war which was the last time we fought anyone without outside help. In total 907 people lost their lives, most of them Argentine conscripts who didn't have any choice about being there, and three of them Falkland Islanders who died in what has since become oxymoronically known as 'friendly fire'.

Alongside the soldiers were journalists who were armed only with pens, cameras, and an unquenchable thirst for pictures of Prince Andrew in a helicopter. Twenty four British journos were picked to join the task force, and had to deal not just with being bombed and shot at but with military officers who censored their reports and expected to use them as a tool for propaganda.

Most did their best to be polite to their hosts while also doing their jobs, reporting the war objectively but with the passion their audiences expected. When BBC reporter Brian Hanrahan was banned from saying that 12 Sea Harrier fighter jets had left aircraft carrier HMS Hermes on a raid, he famously found an even better way of reporting the story, saying: "I counted them all out, and I counted them all back."

On top of that, pictures for TV and newspapers had to be sent back home via early forms of satellite and broadband communications which the military didn't want to let anyone use and involved huge delays. Press reporters merely had to find a phone line to file copy to London, but have you ever tried to find a phone line, in the middle of the sea, during a war, when a dozen other hacks will kill you to file first?

Of course the Argies did things differently. Three British hacks sent to Argentina to cover 'their end' of the war were jailed on the spot for the entire duration of the conflict, and the Argentine press reached levels of jingoistic fantasy which would make Kelvin Mackenzie blush. They faked photographs, made up eyewitness accounts of valiant Argentine troops winning every battle, and reported the sinking of HMS Invincible on an almost daily basis.

Thirty years on, and it's clear that journalism was not only the first draft of history but the most accurate, too.

We can sit and pick apart the reporting of the Scum, the Glimmer or the Wail, or the TV newsgatherers of the Boring Broadcasting Corporation or the Incredibly Twatty Network. The fact is that taken as a whole the Brit journos beat the Argies, were democratic, free and fair, and more importantly they were right. Just as the war was.

There are people - yes, Sean Penn, I'm looking at you - who say that because the Falkland Islands are so far away attempting to keep hold of them is colonialist, that it's all about the oil which has recently been discovered and besides, we can't afford to defend some windswept rocks on the other side of the world.

Yes, to some extent. And no in quite a lot of others.

If the Falklands can't be British because they're a long way away, then Hawaii isn't American, and nor is Alaska. France isn't allowed Corsica, Guadeloupe, or Clipperton Island which is off the coast of Mexico. Russia and Denmark have to stop arguing about who owns the North Pole, and the Dutch can wave goodbye to cheap holidays in the Caribbean Antilles.

More importantly, if the Brits can't have the Falklands because they're too far away, then seven nations currently claiming a piece of the South Pole - which includes our old friends the Argies - would need to wind their necks in too. Seeing as none of those things are going to happen, we are left with the fact that 3,140 Falkland Islanders are British and want to stay that way. If they had a vote for independence, or an urge to eat tapas on a regular basis, there'd be no real argument for not letting them do so. But the Argentinian government insists these people don't have the right to choose who runs the place, which if you ask me means the Argies shouldn't be allowed to run a tap, much less an entire country.

War is never nice. People die and blood is spilled and it often, in hindsight, seems like an horrendous waste of time, effort, money and human beings. A lot like journalism, but with less booze. Very occasionally - and the Falklands is one of those cases - it's the entirely right, decent, moral thing to do. The fact that today a few thousand people get to choose who runs the bit of the planet where they live makes those two months in 1982 entirely worthwhile. It's not colonialism. It's freedom.
 




daveinprague

New member
Oct 1, 2009
12,572
Prague, Czech Republic
None of the places mentioned as similer cases are similer cases though are they?...
To be honest, the Falklands isnt going to feature much in my life. I just think its an incredible waste of money for the priveledge of people moving from Britain to get away from Britain to some windswept shithole in the South Atlantic, as most have...theres not many actual Falkland Islanders there from what ive been told, for the people left in Britain to fund a gigantic defence budget for the place.....forever.
 
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daveinprague

New member
Oct 1, 2009
12,572
Prague, Czech Republic
Ive no problem with the Falkland Islanders, and im not particularly looking for an answer... its an interesting discussion, but I wont be solving it, neither will anybody else on NSC, the only real answer will be joint ownership... and it most likely will come to that in the end...as for the Falkland Islanders making the decision, as most of them are immigrants in recent years from Britain, then I would imagine they would want to keep it British. What percentage of the population is 'Falkland Islander'? A lot of them left after the war and moved to Britain, Australia, and New Zealand.
 






daveinprague

New member
Oct 1, 2009
12,572
Prague, Czech Republic
Well, as thats been embedded in the Falkland Island constitution...since the war...its not always been the case. Previously, as I understand it, the year before the war, Falkland Islanders came to speak to the government re their status, and were pretty much told to feck off. I still think its a waste of money, in a time, when Britain is not exactly flush. Eventually, it will be a partnership between the countries...
Theres certainly no threat from the Argentine military.
 
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So? Right now, the British Government has explicitly confirmed Falkland Islanders as full British subjects with the right to self-determination. It's an important principle and is very much under attack in this cold war against the Falklands that Argentina is now waging. Just because they aren't sending conscripts out it doesn't mean that Argentina isn't a threat. This is very cut and dried - the British have made their position clear and have vowed to protect its people. It's actually one of the few very principled things that this Government have not even wavered an inch from.

Self-determination is paramount and the only thing the UN will consider therefore Argentina will never set foot in the Falklands. Your arguments about 'true' Falkland Islanders is as meaningless as saying that only 'true' Englishmen (whatever that means) should vote in English elections.
 


daveinprague

New member
Oct 1, 2009
12,572
Prague, Czech Republic
but thats my point...The Argentinians, other than diplomatic rows, wont invade, and wont attack... which makes the defence of the islands a bit daft.
In the future, If and when they get militarily aggressive, then yeah, but now??? Not really gong to happen is it.
 




Not overtly but they've been making lots of moves behind the scenes to undermine the British position. We have been unequivocal in our stance and need to remain so until Argentina take the Spanish position about Gibraltar ie. making claims in principle but absolutely no proactive steps to back up their claims. Right now, Argentina is a long way from there.
 


daveinprague

New member
Oct 1, 2009
12,572
Prague, Czech Republic
A long, long way...which is what I mean....theres no military threat from them...at all... the only people interested are their version of the nationalists.. and they are a minority.. I speak to Argentinians every day....not one person has mentioned the Falklands...not one... the people there are not interested in having a war over it. I believe that in the future, there will be a joint ownership. Anyway, tidying up from work before I speak to our 'enemies' in Argentina :)
Good weekend etc.
 


User removed 4

New member
May 9, 2008
13,331
Haywards Heath
None of the places mentioned as similer cases are similer cases though are they?...
To be honest, the Falklands isnt going to feature much in my life. I just think its an incredible waste of money for the priveledge of people moving from Britain to get away from Britain to some windswept shithole in the South Atlantic, as most have...theres not many actual Falkland Islanders there from what ive been told, for the people left in Britain to fund a gigantic defence budget for the place.....forever.
you've been told complete and utter rubbish then.
 




User removed 4

New member
May 9, 2008
13,331
Haywards Heath
Ive no problem with the Falkland Islanders, and im not particularly looking for an answer... its an interesting discussion, but I wont be solving it, neither will anybody else on NSC, the only real answer will be joint ownership... and it most likely will come to that in the end...as for the Falkland Islanders making the decision, as most of them are immigrants in recent years from Britain, then I would imagine they would want to keep it British. What percentage of the population is 'Falkland Islander'? A lot of them left after the war and moved to Britain, Australia, and New Zealand.
where are you getting this from ? its complete fantasy.
 


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