Another one O/T - The Falklands 30 years on - genuine views please

[Trufflehound]

we only nicked them whilst "Argentinians" was nicking "Argentina" from the native indians.

I think if we nicked them from anyone it was from Spain, as Argentina was still a colony then.

I find this outline of the parallel histories fascinating: BBC News - Falkland Islands: What are the competing claims? Because we have such differing views of what actually happened in the 18th/19th centuries, I can't see the two governments ever agreeing completely. Which (if either) of those histories is correct we will never know for sure. The truth is lost in the mists of time.

A more likely outcome in my expectation is there will be some fudge whereby we retain sovereignty, but pay Argentina some percentage of any oil/gas revenues. Whatever you think of that, it would at least avoid any more unnecessary bloodshed.

Thanks by the way to everyone who has taken and is taking the trouble to reply, both here and via PM.

 

[daveinprague]

The huge loss of life of the war means that it can't be given to Argentina now, otherwise it will be as if people died for nothing.

It was a tragic loss for both sides, and sadly unnecessary really at the end of the day. If we stay on because members of our military died, something that has to be expected of life in the military, then we will never leave Afghanistan.

 

[Don Quixote]

It was a tragic loss for both sides, and sadly unnecessary really at the end of the day. If we stay on because members of our military died, something that has to be expected of life in the military, then we will never leave Afghanistan.

Surely it is slightly different in Afganistan as it is a country, and we went in there for reasons I can't even remember to resolve something that I am not sure ever truly existed, but with the Falklands it belonged to Britain so it was in defence of the country that the war was fought. I don't think it can be compared with the conflict in Afganistan.

 

[Garry Nelson's Left Foot]

I saw something on BBC World News the other day & hadn't realized it was 30 years ago, blimey! I remember a copper knocking on the door & asking my Mum if Naval Airman Smith of HMS Invincible was in. I thought I was right in the shit! Anyway, clerical f*** up cos I was leave on draft from Invince, it was Easter, so ended up with a very cushy number compared to my mates on grey funnel's as I was sent on the QEII to work on the flight decks, (one fwd, one aft). It was all very exciting, until I heard of ships getting sunk & friends getting killed & injured. Made friends with a lot of the Welsh Guards & Scots Guards on the way down; many tinnies were sunk with great banter between the services, (which the RN always won of course). I remember transferring some of the Taffs at South Georgia to Canberra & Norlund, only to find out a few days later how many had perished onboard Sir Galahad. Makes you think I can tell you. As does air raid warning red!

What I think of today is how would my best mate from those days be now if he hadn't died. Budgie Marsden from Blackburn, one of the funniest blokes you'd ever meet & a run ashore oppo that I got in to so many scrapes with. I wonder what he'd be doing now; like I say, makes you think.

Was it right, was it wrong? Don't know. Waste of young lives though.

This, in a nutshell, says everything about the Falklands war, IMO. It's a story that can be repeated for over 900 different people from both sides of the conflict. What an awful, shameful(by that I mean for those in power who so needlessly fell into the war) waste of life.

I had my second birthday during the Falklands war, so obviously have no memories of it at all. The thing that strikes me whenever I think or read about it is how absolutely pointless it all was. A bunch of dickheads playing politics and costing nearly 1,000 people there lives, and for what? And now the current Argentinian President is (IMO) recklessly raking over the ashes. It's so headbangingly frustrating.

 

[daveinprague]

Surely it is slightly different in Afganistan as it is a country, and we went in there for reasons I can't even remember to resolve something that I am not sure ever truly existed, but with the Falklands it belonged to Britain so it was in defence of the country that the war was fought. I don't think it can be compared with the conflict in Afganistan.

fair enough.... but...soldiers, sailors and airmen die in wars...its part of the job....I just dont see how its got any economic sense, when the country is financially crippled, to spend the amount of money we spend defending these people in the Falklands...ship them to Scotland, Wales, New Zealand... nobody dies, we dont lose a fortune every year. If they find oil/gas there, well, thats how it goes...it will be British companies that benefit anyway, not Argentinian..

 

[SULLY COULDNT SHOOT]

At the time I thought it was terrible idea and hating Thatcher firmly believed we only entered the war to save her government.

Today (I still hate Thatcher), with a lot more knowledge I dont think we had a choice in the end and we cant just give it back now especially as the people living there want to stay British. If we are a democracy we have to respect that.

 

[ditchy]

So if we hand back the Falklands and ignore the wishes of the people , should we not hand over Jersey to the French ?

 

[daveinprague]

We handed it over to the Germans, so why not?

Not sure what the Jersey defence budget is, but personally, I think over 60 million a year just to defend 3000 people in the Falklands into perpetuity is a bit steep.

Before the war with Argentina...did the Falkland islanders enjoy full British status? I seem to remember a change in their status after the war.

 

[Hampden Park]

dont want to start a binfest but here are my thoughts:-
joined up in 1977 to hopefully go on many jollies on grey war canoes to as many foreign countries as possible. going to war never crossed my mind.
argies invaded islands that were not theirs? sent to war to take them back. did that, lost friends and colleagues. was it right? pass. was it wrong? pass.
would i do it again? yes. should we give them back? no. stayed in the R.N. until 1996. cannot believe the conflict was 30 years ago!!!!!!!!
regards
Hampden
p.s. like your post Smudge, says it all really m8y.

 

[daveinprague]

:-D Havnt heard the 'war canoe' reference since I was on the old Ark Royal haha..

 

[Hampden Park]

:-D Havnt heard the 'war canoe' reference since I was on the old Ark Royal haha..

it's your age d.i.p. (old sea dog).

 

[daveinprague]

definitely old...I still cant get my head around women serving on ships.. ive nothing against it at all, would have loved it I think, but I left before it happened, and I just cant imagine it..joined a year after they ditched the Rum and a year before women?... poor timing on my part.

 

[User removed 4]

definitely old...I still cant get my head around women serving on ships.. ive nothing against it at all, would have loved it I think, but I left before it happened, and I just cant imagine it..joined a year after they ditched the Rum and a year before women?... poor timing on my part.

you missed rum, what about sodomy and the lash ?


PS Did you ever see the golden rivet ?

 

[Hampden Park]

definitely old...I still cant get my head around women serving on ships.. ive nothing against it at all, would have loved it I think, but I left before it happened, and I just cant imagine it..

a nightmare dave, no disrepect to any (cough splits cough) wrens who may read this site. women at sea, in the beginning was just a no no. when on the Fearless they were either targets for the bootnecks (to knock off) or they would sniff around the senior rates (me included) to see who they could knock off. left in 96 and i am glad i did. too many changes and wrens at sea was the final straw. sorry ladies.......

 

[Hampden Park]

you missed rum, what about sodomy and the lash ?


PS Did you ever see the golden rivet ?

Golden Rivet? now there's a dit. pull up a bollard and prepare yourself for a sea shanty.

 

[Triggaaar]

I was in Argentina in March and managed to get some pretty honest and balanced opinions from them.

Do tell, I'd be interested to hear what they think.

Was a bit shocked earlier seeing we are sending out best war ship around that way, i know we are not giving it back but i feel where being a bit provocative at the moment

Provocative? It's our land and waters, we should be able to do what we like there. Where better to put our ships. Do you think it's provocative that police cars park at the police station?

Geographically the Falklands should be Argentinian

What?

For the life of me I cannot fathom why people quote the 'geographical' factor. Based on that, Ireland should be part of England but then again England should be part of France. The islands are also outside any recognised international territorial waters. They were uninhabited when discovered by europeans. They could have been discovered by the Spanish or maybe the English, it doesn't seem clear. What is known is that Patagonians did not inhabit the islands.

Exactly. And Alaska should belong to Canada, etc etc.

100 years from now it'll be Argentinian, same as Hong Kong is now Chinese.

What? I also refer you to drew:

Hong Kong was part of a lease that was handed back when the lease expired.

Hong Kong is part of China, and always was, we just leased it. The Falklands have never been part of Argentina.


I constantly amazed by the stupidity of those who think Argentina have a claim to the Falklands.

 

[daveinprague]

Actually Bushy, and this isnt a dig at your Guards past, but the major sex scandal going on in Britain when I was in the Navy was a Scots Guards rent boy ring...seriously...Used to get lashed often ;-)
Didnt actually spot anybody who may have been gay when I was in navy..I guess as they kept it quiet.

 

[drew]

"those islands the other side of the planet are ours! we must place our flag there! they will live as we do! we will even kill people for our demands ans use tax money to pay for missiles and weapons."

sounds kinda silly really.

It does sound silly but not in the way I think you intended!

 

[Trufflehound]

Do tell, I'd be interested to hear what they think.

• There are a few stencilled graffiti signs around Buenos Aires saying the 'Malvinas were are and always will be Argentina's." I suspect the government paid for these.
• There are few anti-British pieces in the press, but from what I gather it's simply toeing the government line. I'm not sure how free the press is down there.
• There is a "permanent Malvinas demonstration" on the Plaza de Mayo, the main square in front of the presidential palace, but the real gripe there seems to be they are demanding proper recognition for the war veterans, and proper compensation for the families of the Argentine dead. Pretty legitimate in my opinion.

But for the people I managed to speak to (and my wife speaks fluent Spanish, so there was nothing lost in translation), the Malvinas/Falklands simply doesn't feature in their daily lives. They generally view the government's current shit-stirring as little more than a deliberate attempt to distract everyone from the real issues, like the economy.

I think part of it is also down to a woman president trying to impose herself on a generally male and macho-dominated country. She has portraits of various strong women leaders all around her office (I did the tour, I've seen them), with Evita taking pride of place...

There was not a single sharp intake of breath whenever we mentioned we were English. Got treated with as much friendliness and respect as anyone else (and considerably more friendliness than I was expecting, having read about the people of Buenos Aires's supposed off-hand snobbishness towards anyone who isn't 'from those parts'...).

 

[daveinprague]

I hand over my work at the end of my working day to Buenos Aries every day...nobody has mentioned it at all. I think the Brit press also made more of a story out of it than was actually necessary, as well as the Argentininian president.
I still dont think its worth 60 million a year for a defence budget for 3000 people, many of whom moved there from UK and not necessarily born there.