12000+ empty seats at Falmer

[Superphil]

I fear also that you are probably right

What if they did all that, and the planning permission was granted on the basis that no cash tickets were allowed to be purchased on the day at the ground?

 

[Jamie]

FFS, The planning does not allow that, get over it, it is not going to happen. And it doesn't happen in many other places any more either, it is history.

I liked it when a pint cost 40p, and £5 of four star filled your car up, I also liked going tothe Goldstone and paying a pound to get in.

Things have changed, and the comments on here about the club missing a trick, the Albion scoring an own goal, nothing of the sort has happened. Please rememebr what has happened since 1996, and how long it took to get permission to build the new ground. The planning permission that was secured DOES NOT ALLOW FOR CASH TICKET PURCHASE ON THE DAY. The club should be roundly applauded for coming up with a system that effectively circumnavigates that "problem"

Apply to vary the planning permission. It happens all over the country on a daily basis. No need to swear, its just called a difference of opinion. I agree with Tooting Gull, I also expect the horse has bolted but the wrong decision has been made. It is a pointless planning permission, and is a nonsense that gets on people's nerves. Football clubs should think about what they are selling, its more than just football.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Apply to vary the planning permission.

Simple innit. I wonder why the club didn;t think of it?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Apply to vary the planning permission. It happens all over the country on a daily basis. No need to swear, its just called a difference of opinion. I agree with Tooting Gull, I also expect the horse has bolted but the wrong decision has been made. It is a pointless planning permission, and is a nonsense that gets on people's nerves. Football clubs should think about what they are selling, its more than just football.

Have you ever personally tried to get planning permission / building regs for anything ? If you had you'd realise you have NO control over it - you either do what the authorities say / ask or you don't get your planning permission.

Anyone who can't get to grips with at least one of the many ways of paying just because they want to use cash at the gates quite frankly is probably too stupid to even understand the rules of football, making it rather pointless going !!!!

 

[Brovion]

Fair points. Although with your state of mind on this scenario, why don't you add in 'stadium collapse' while you're at it?

Boxing Day at Falmer could prove to be interesting. I was, however, surprised at your question (or rather the pre-amble to the question) last week when you said there's only two trains an hour to Falmer. Where did that little nugget come from?

As someone who travels to Lewes every day, I can tell you there are five trains an hour during the morning rush hour. From Brighton. And probably four or five from Lewes.

However, I do find B&H Buses' reasoning regarding last week utterly pathetic, and hopefully that will be sorted out.

The reason I didn't mention 'stadium collapse' is because, contrary to what you might think, I'm not some Jeremiah who sees Doom and Gloom in every scenario. I think stadium collapse is a pretty unlikely occurence, whereas the events I did mention (congestion, bad weather, rail problems) are quite common. In other words I'm not expecting that stadium collapse will ever be an issue, whereas common or garden failures in the public transport network are with us all the time. I don't think pointing them out deserves bracketing me in with the negative moaners.

Regarding Brighton to Lewes (via Falmer) trains, there are two an hour in the evening. (I know because I used to get back from London at about 8:00pm and catch one to London Road). I take your point that there are more in the weekday rush hour - but what about Saturdays and after 9:00pm in the week?

 

[The Large One]

Yes, there are. It's just that it's not your view. Which is the way you always argue on here, try and ridicule anyone who doesn't agree with you/the club. It's getting very boring.

Oh, behave.

I'm allowed an opinion, as is he. I'm merely pointing out in the minimum of terms that I don't agree. You think I'm ridiculing him just because I disagree? Deary me.

Actually, I've had a great idea. I'll agree with him for the sake of it, and then you can be happy. Hooray! Please tell me you're not one of those air-headed numpties who thinks I have my head stuck up the club's backside, because that would be a pity.

Let me re-phrase the previous answer.

"No there isn't a convincing argument to say the club has scored an own goal but not allowing people to pay on the gate..."

He appears to be speaking for (let's assume he agrees with LA1972) 12,000 people who won't come because they can't pay cash on the gate. His evidence for that is...? I haven't heard a convincing argument to say that is going to happen. Have you? And if that's the case, how can he say the club has scored an own goal?

LA1972's original post doesn't convince me that there will be 12,000 empty seats on the back of that one reason. I'm sure a few might be stubborn enough not to come on the back of that, but 12,000?

That's what I meant by "no there isn't." But I suspect you knew that, and just wanted a meaningless and unnecessary pop at someone.

 

[Jamie]

Simple innit. I wonder why the club didn;t think of it?

because they dont want to. I expct there is revenue in texting to buy a ticket, and that is fair enough, given TB has spent £90 Million on a football ground. But it is a shame. There is no point hiding behind a pointless planning condition however as if its pointless, it can and will get varied. t is pointless because if you can turn up to the ground anyway without a ticket then you may as well have a tunstile

 

[Tooting Gull]

What if they did all that, and the planning permission was granted on the basis that no cash tickets were allowed to be purchased on the day at the ground?

That is my understanding. Like Jamie, I think it was a wrong decision, arrived at by people who didn't really understand the implications. I think we should have battled harder on that point, and a wider canvassing of views would have been helpful. But maybe as you've hinted earlier, we were so paranoid about not getting the bloody thing at all, we quickly agreed on that point.

We are where we are though, and I also agree that given what is a very unhelpful decision, the club are doing everything they can to mitigate the effects and make buying tickets and getting in at short notice as easy as possible.

 

[dougdeep]

. t is pointless because if you can turn up to the ground anyway without a ticket then you may as well have a tunstile

And employ 50 people to man them?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

because they dont want to.

More like they know it would be a pointless and EXPENSIVE battle. Call me odd but I'd rather the, say £500k they would spend on trying to change it, was spent on a cracking new defender that might help us get promotion

 

[Thunder Bolt]

There is no point hiding behind a pointless planning condition however as if its pointless, it can and will get varied.

Good luck.

 

[The Large One]

The reason I didn't mention 'stadium collapse' is because, contrary to what you might think, I'm not some Jeremiah who sees Doom and Gloom in every scenario. I think stadium collapse is a pretty unlikely occurence, whereas the events I did mention (congestion, bad weather, rail problems) are quite common. In other words I'm not expecting that stadium collapse will ever be an issue, whereas common or garden failures in the public transport network are with us all the time. I don't think pointing them out deserves bracketing me in with the negative moaners.

Blimey, Tim. I was only joking.

Regarding Brighton to Lewes (via Falmer) trains, there are two an hour in the evening. (I know because I used to get back from London at about 8:00pm and catch one to London Road). I take your point that there are more in the weekday rush hour - but what about Saturdays and after 9:00pm in the week?

From one o'clock-ish on a Saturday, there is a train from Brighton to Falmer at, 1258, 1311, 1337, 1343, 1358, 1410, 1437 and 1443 - all of which will get you to the ground in time for kick-off. From Lewes, there are trains at 1258, 1314, 1329, 1344, 1358, 1414, 1429 and 1444. It's about the same frequency after the game. This, plus more trains that Martin Perry is hoping to get, does work out a bit more than 'two an hour'.

Whether this is enough is another matter.

For the evening matches, there does only appear to be three trains an hour going back to Brighton. A big concern, of course, and one which we hope will be sorted. Real ale at the ground would help of course...

 

[The Large One]

From what Martin Perry said last week (off-air), I understand the legal advice regarding the planning was that if they wanted 'pay-on-the-gate', they wouldn't have got planning approval. Simple as that.

Whether that can be changed at a later date is another matter. But it will be expensive to undertake, difficult to achieve and the club would have to consider whether it would be cost-effective to do so in the first place.

 

[dougdeep]

From what Martin Perry said last week (off-air), I understand the legal advice regarding the planning was that if they wanted 'pay-on-the-gate', they wouldn't have got planning approval. Simple as that.

Whether that can be changed at a later date is another matter. But it will be expensive to undertake, and the club would have to consider whether it would be cost-effective to do so.

There you go again TLO, talking well informed sense. You'll get nowhere on here if you carry on like that sir.

 

[Jamie]

Good luck.

why do i need luck? i am the customer. Always be careful what you wish for. A future that incorporates the past and makes things easier for the customer should and no doubt is the goal of the club. There is probable revenue in texting to buy a ticket, and its that, not a pointless health and safety planning condition (pointless because you can turn up at the ground without a ticket) might be why this horse has bolted

 

[Westdene Seagull]

why do i need luck? i am the customer. Always be careful what you wish for. A future that incorporates the past and makes things easier for the customer should and no doubt is the goal of the club. There is probable revenue in texting to buy a ticket, and its that, not a pointless health and safety planning condition (pointless because you can turn up at the ground without a ticket) might be why this horse has bolted

err... show me exactly where the condition of no cash sales at the gate was linked to H&S ?

Also, it actually costs businesses more to handle cash than anyother sort of payment so in effect the condition has allowed the club to lower its running costs.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

why do i need luck? i am the customer. Always be careful what you wish for. A future that incorporates the past and makes things easier for the customer should and no doubt is the goal of the club. There is probable revenue in texting to buy a ticket, and its that, not a pointless health and safety planning condition (pointless because you can turn up at the ground without a ticket) might be why this horse has bolted

I thought you were going to apply to get it changed yoursel the way you were posting that it will get changed.
Withdean is cashless if you hadn't noticed, it's just a follow on from there. If you don't want to top up your card by text then ring the club shop or go in person.

 

[Tooting Gull]

From what Martin Perry said last week (off-air), I understand the legal advice regarding the planning was that if they wanted 'pay-on-the-gate', they wouldn't have got planning approval. Simple as that.

Whether that can be changed at a later date is another matter. But it will be expensive to undertake, difficult to achieve and the club would have to consider whether it would be cost-effective to do so in the first place.

I'm sure that's what happened, but where do the planners get off, holding a gun to the club's head like that. How can that one single point be the difference between it being a good idea or a bad idea? They did after all agree to have the stadium built for 22,000 fans, it's almost like they've said 'Have your 22,000 capacity, but we're also going to make it very difficult for you to get that number. Enjoy your half-empty stadium'. Utterly ridiculous.

I think it would be worth asking the question informally of the planners about an alteration, but if it looks like being another massive and expensive fight, maybe it's not worth it.

 

[The Large One]

I'm sure that's what happened, but where do the planners get off, holding a gun to the club's head like that. How can that one single point be the difference between it being a good idea or a bad idea? They did after all agree to have the stadium built for 22,000 fans, it's almost like they've said 'Have your 22,000 capacity, but we're also going to make it very difficult for you to get that number. Enjoy your half-empty stadium'. Utterly ridiculous.

I think it would be worth asking the question informally of the planners about an alteration, but if it looks like being another massive and expensive fight, maybe it's not worth it.

Planners only operate to planning law. Yes, there can be some interpretation. What the specifics of the law which led to the decision to not have 'pay-on-the-gate' was I don't know.

But I just don't buy this 'It's going to be difficult to get tickets if you can't get them on the door' opinion. You could, if you felt like it, stand on the concourse outside the stadium and get your 'tickets' that way - just by phoning up (assuming you have your card with you). Notwithstanding whatever planning laws have kicked in, queuing to pay on the gate is going to be the SLOWEST method for people to enter the stadium.

I have no problem if we had pay on the gate, I have (now I've heard how it's going to work) no problem that we don't. But what purpose is served by boycotting the stadium for that one reason?

 

[Jamie]

I'm sure that's what happened, but where do the planners get off, holding a gun to the club's head like that. How can that one single point be the difference between it being a good idea or a bad idea? They did after all agree to have the stadium built for 22,000 fans, it's almost like they've said 'Have your 22,000 capacity, but we're also going to make it very difficult for you to get that number. Enjoy your half-empty stadium'. Utterly ridiculous.

I think it would be worth asking the question informally of the planners about an alteration, but if it looks like being another massive and expensive fight, maybe it's not worth it.

Of course its pointless tooting gull, but i do agree that it will likely result in having to get the stupidity before a court to get it reversed. The club wot fear that f that is what they want as its a distinct issue and the cost involved would not be very large to apply to vary. However it would be nice if the planning officer and the club got together to chat through the pointless nature of the condition. But i think you hit the nail on the head with the revenue stream from the texting system, and actually, i can understand that, but it might result in lower crowds, i put it no higher than that. I just miss a proper football experience, and you know im allowed to.