[Football] Will Lewis Dunk ever play for England again?

[Stato]

Article in The Athletic today says Dunk performed poorly in training which is why he hasn't been called up again.

Remember that Dunk was only called up because Maguire was injured. By the time the next squad came, Maguire was fit again. The reaction after the incident in Greece shows that Southgate will always pick Maguire regardless of his form or his behaviour, or the form of other players who would compete in his position. Dunk has since proven himself far more suited to play in a back three than Maguire who looks about as comfortable as Shane Duffy did. This doesn't matter, Southgate still hasn't been to the Amex and Maguire always gets picked despite how poorly he may play for his club. As Southgate sees Dunk as merely a substitute Maguire, Dunk doesn't get picked. His only chance would be a long term injury to Maguire.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

His only chance would be a long term injury to Maguire.

Or prison

 

[Springal]

Yes the training footage didn't paint Dunk in the best light really. Dunk also looked a bit awkward in some of the group photos etc, and the video of being welcomed into the camp so maybe just didn't really fit.

 

[Frankie]

The way I would quantify Dunks inclusion into the England squad for the Euros would be this , have the pundits at Sky Sports changed their minds and think Dunk is better than Mings or Stones .

No Dunk will never play for England again , but and without my Blue and White specs on , if Stones and Mings played for us , I'd still prefer Dunk and that's in all honesty.

 

[Stato]

The pundits will only talk around the players in contention. None have the imagination or bravery to suggest that Southgate's approach is heading England for certain failure at the Euros.

In terms of centre halves, Neville and Carragher are arguing around whether Dier or Coady should be included as backup rather than saying "What is this idiot doing? Why are Maguire and Mings guaranteed selection regardless of how badly they play for their clubs? Why have players at unfashionable clubs like Tarkowski and Dunk been discarded after barely a chance? Why did he never give Coady a chance when he was playing very well, but selects him all the time now that he's playing poorly? With all the time he has spent at Villa Park, why hasn't this idiot noticed that Konza is far more mobile and reliable than Mings?"

None of them would question the continued selection of Phillips and Ward Prowse, neither of whom bring anything at all to the squad. As far as the right back question of TAA, James or Trippier is concerned, I'm reminded of an old radio phone in where Tommy Docherty was discussing why Alan Hansen got comparatively few caps for Scotland. When a caller suggested that McLeish and Miller at Aberdeen were picked because they were a pairing, Docherty started to say "Willie Miller and Alec McLeish, together..." and I thought he was going to say something like "were a fine partnership," but instead shouted "WEREN'T FIT TO LACE HANSEN'S BOOTS!!!" The same applies to Trippier and James. Both decent full backs, but neither of them close to being the match winner that TAA can be. No other nation in Europe would be debating whether TAA or Grealish should be in their first eleven, with this suit in charge, we are in the unbelievable situation where there is a discussion of whether TAA should make the squad. If his defensive limitations don't suit your system, don't discard him, change your stupid system, you utter fraud.

 

[Mr Banana]

The pundits will only talk around the players in contention. None have the imagination or bravery to suggest that Southgate's approach is heading England for certain failure at the Euros.

In terms of centre halves, Neville and Carragher are arguing around whether Dier or Coady should be included as backup rather than saying "What is this idiot doing? Why are Maguire and Mings guaranteed selection regardless of how badly they play for their clubs? Why have players at unfashionable clubs like Tarkowski and Dunk been discarded after barely a chance? Why did he never give Coady a chance when he was playing very well, but selects him all the time now that he's playing poorly? With all the time he has spent at Villa Park, why hasn't this idiot noticed that Konza is far more mobile and reliable than Mings?"

None of them would question the continued selection of Phillips and Ward Prowse, neither of whom bring anything at all to the squad. As far as the right back question of TAA, James or Trippier is concerned, I'm reminded of an old radio phone in where Tommy Docherty was discussing why Alan Hansen got comparatively few caps for Scotland. When a caller suggested that McLeish and Miller at Aberdeen were picked because they were a pairing, Docherty started to say "Willie Miller and Alec McLeish, together..." and I thought he was going to say something like "were a fine partnership," but instead shouted "WEREN'T FIT TO LACE HANSEN'S BOOTS!!!" The same applies to Trippier and James. Both decent full backs, but neither of them close to being the match winner that TAA can be. No other nation in Europe would be debating whether TAA or Grealish should be in their first eleven, with this suit in charge, we are in the unbelievable situation where there is a discussion of whether TAA should make the squad. If his defensive limitations don't suit your system, don't discard him, change your stupid system, you utter fraud.

Walker is consistently excellent but as you suggest, a drop in TAA's level still puts him miles ahead of the others. He should be in every squad with a view to becoming captain in future.

Stones is the only centre-back whose stats are even vaguely comparable to Dunk's this season. But then you're back into the old argument that Stones has much less to do and a far better team around him.

The suggestion that Dier, who hasn't even been picked by Spurs for almost two months and with whom they average a couple of goals conceded when he plays at centre-back, is a better option than Dunk because Rashford got the better of him in training - which can happen to any defender, not least Ben White at the Amex - is ludicrous.

 

[blue-shifted]

The pundits will only talk around the players in contention. None have the imagination or bravery to suggest that Southgate's approach is heading England for certain failure at the Euros.

In terms of centre halves, Neville and Carragher are arguing around whether Dier or Coady should be included as backup rather than saying "What is this idiot doing? Why are Maguire and Mings guaranteed selection regardless of how badly they play for their clubs? Why have players at unfashionable clubs like Tarkowski and Dunk been discarded after barely a chance? Why did he never give Coady a chance when he was playing very well, but selects him all the time now that he's playing poorly? With all the time he has spent at Villa Park, why hasn't this idiot noticed that Konza is far more mobile and reliable than Mings?"

None of them would question the continued selection of Phillips and Ward Prowse, neither of whom bring anything at all to the squad. As far as the right back question of TAA, James or Trippier is concerned, I'm reminded of an old radio phone in where Tommy Docherty was discussing why Alan Hansen got comparatively few caps for Scotland. When a caller suggested that McLeish and Miller at Aberdeen were picked because they were a pairing, Docherty started to say "Willie Miller and Alec McLeish, together..." and I thought he was going to say something like "were a fine partnership," but instead shouted "WEREN'T FIT TO LACE HANSEN'S BOOTS!!!" The same applies to Trippier and James. Both decent full backs, but neither of them close to being the match winner that TAA can be. No other nation in Europe would be debating whether TAA or Grealish should be in their first eleven, with this suit in charge, we are in the unbelievable situation where there is a discussion of whether TAA should make the squad. If his defensive limitations don't suit your system, don't discard him, change your stupid system, you utter fraud.

Overly harsh at this stage.

TAA has just been given a kick up the arse, (the whole squad has) and it looks as if it worked. I believe he'll go to the tournament (James will miss out, Trippier may make it in due to versatility)

Kyle Walker will be first choice RB and I think few can argue with this.

Grealish was in the team before injury and if he proves himself fit will go as well. I think there's a starting spot between him Rashford and Foden. (Sterling, Mount and Kane will start every game if fit). Don't see Grealish as a starter, but I think he'll get decent time off the bench

 

[Stato]

Overly harsh at this stage.

TAA has just been given a kick up the arse, (the whole squad has) and it looks as if it worked. I believe he'll go to the tournament (James will miss out, Trippier may make it in due to versatility)

Kyle Walker will be first choice RB and I think few can argue with this.

Grealish was in the team before injury and if he proves himself fit will go as well. I think there's a starting spot between him Rashford and Foden. (Sterling, Mount and Kane will start every game if fit). Don't see Grealish as a starter, but I think he'll get decent time off the bench

We'll see. Twenty outfield players to be picked. Southgate has suggested that he'll only take eight defenders. We can assume Shaw and Chilwell as the only options at LB, we know that he'll take Maguire, Stones, Mings and Walker. From his recent squads, that means only two of TAA, Trippier, James, Dier and Coady. He could take two of the three right backs if he sees Walker, Rice or Phillips as cover at CB, but two of those are defensive midfielders, and he has shown that he wants to play two of them. If Jordan Henderson is not fit, I'd say its very likely that Dier will be in because Southgate will see him as cover at DM. That would leave one place for TAA, Trippier or James.

 

[DarrenFreemansPerm]

Yes the training footage didn't paint Dunk in the best light really. Dunk also looked a bit awkward in some of the group photos etc, and the video of being welcomed into the camp so maybe just didn't really fit.

Jeez weez, fancy looking a bit awkward and nervous whilst fulfilling a childhood dream of playing for your country. Seriously, if the reason he’s never been picked again is because he looked awkward and got done a few times by Rashford IN TRAINING then Southgate is even more of a prick than I thought.

 

[blue-shifted]

We'll see. Twenty outfield players to be picked. Southgate has suggested that he'll only take eight defenders. We can assume Shaw and Chilwell as the only options at LB, we know that he'll take Maguire, Stones, Mings and Walker. From his recent squads, that means only two of TAA, Trippier, James, Dier and Coady. He could take two of the three right backs if he sees Walker, Rice or Phillips as cover at CB, but two of those are defensive midfielders, and he has shown that he wants to play two of them. If Jordan Henderson is not fit, I'd say its very likely that Dier will be in because Southgate will see him as cover at DM. That would leave one place for TAA, Trippier or James.

Agree that a lot hinges on Jordan Henderson. If fit this could mean that GS might be confidence of only taking 3 CB's knowing that Henderson can cover if two get injured.

Personally i'd still be surprised if Dier makes the squad

 

[DarrenFreemansPerm]

We'll see. Twenty outfield players to be picked. Southgate has suggested that he'll only take eight defenders. We can assume Shaw and Chilwell as the only options at LB, we know that he'll take Maguire, Stones, Mings and Walker. From his recent squads, that means only two of TAA, Trippier, James, Dier and Coady. He could take two of the three right backs if he sees Walker, Rice or Phillips as cover at CB, but two of those are defensive midfielders, and he has shown that he wants to play two of them. If Jordan Henderson is not fit, I'd say its very likely that Dier will be in because Southgate will see him as cover at DM. That would leave one place for TAA, Trippier or James.

The very fact that Mings is a shoo-in is just not right, he’s awful, he’s not even the best English centre back for his club side. Pathetic.

 

[Stato]

The very fact that Mings is a shoo-in is just not right, he’s awful, he’s not even the best English centre back for his club side. Pathetic.

I wouldn't be taking Stones either. He is an excellent footballer, but he is still making the kind of mistakes that Dunky made in the Championship when Warren Aspinall described him as 'always having a rick in him.' I'd take good quality defenders rather than having some obsession with producing a Beckenbauer or Bobby Moore. Dunk and Tarkowski are easily good enough to do the job that this England team needs from centre halves: Stay positionally aware, dominate in the air, block, organise the defence, win the ball and give it to the midfield and full backs. A year or so back, I would have said the same about Maguire, but his organisation, awareness and leadership have been very questionable since his move to Manchester United. With a choice of Mings, Maguire and Stones, it is not a case of whether unforced errors will cost us, but of how many will there be.

 

[vagabond]

The way I would quantify Dunks inclusion into the England squad for the Euros would be this , have the pundits at Sky Sports changed their minds and think Dunk is better than Mings or Stones .

No Dunk will never play for England again , but and without my Blue and White specs on , if Stones and Mings played for us , I'd still prefer Dunk and that's in all honesty.

I can see lots of good qualities with Stones. Technical, good at bringing it out and switching play. Not too dissimilar to Webster, would probably be a good Graham Potter type player.

But for the life of me don’t get what people see in Mings. Poor on the ball, clunky, not very mobile and very flimsy defensively. He does come across well in interviews so wonder if it’s his character that Southgate likes. I wouldn’t swap Dunk for Mings in a month of Sundays though, and I bet Potter wouldn’t either.

 

[vagabond]

The pundits will only talk around the players in contention. None have the imagination or bravery to suggest that Southgate's approach is heading England for certain failure at the Euros.

In terms of centre halves, Neville and Carragher are arguing around whether Dier or Coady should be included as backup rather than saying "What is this idiot doing? Why are Maguire and Mings guaranteed selection regardless of how badly they play for their clubs? Why have players at unfashionable clubs like Tarkowski and Dunk been discarded after barely a chance? Why did he never give Coady a chance when he was playing very well, but selects him all the time now that he's playing poorly? With all the time he has spent at Villa Park, why hasn't this idiot noticed that Konza is far more mobile and reliable than Mings?"

Couldn’t agree with you more.

 

[Mellotron]

Southgate made a rod for his own back with the "I will pick players on form" line. Eric Dier has been utter dogshit for years, as an example.

It was a complete lie and I've lost a bit of respect for him since. Better to just be honest and say something like "I have certain players that understand what I want them to do/I feel work best in the system I want to play etc".

 

[Driver8]

If Southgate goes after the all too predictable failure at the Euros this year he may have a chance. Otherwise no.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Yes the training footage didn't paint Dunk in the best light really. Dunk also looked a bit awkward in some of the group photos etc, and the video of being welcomed into the camp so maybe just didn't really fit.

So if Dunk had tackled the petal as he would in a match and snapped him what would have been said?

 

[Stato]

With apologies to [MENTION=14054]MJsGhost[/MENTION] who's idea I have just nicked. (He did it for Maupay in this thread: https://www.northstandchat.com/showthread.php?387161-Striker/page9), here is a comparison of Lewis Dunk and the central defenders who are in contention for a place in Southgate's squad.

This is Lewis from this season playing Potter's style of football, where he outranks all of the others in nearly half of the performance, defensive and passing stats:



This is Lewis from 2017/18 playing Hughton's type of defending, included to show that when you ask him to block, intercept and clear, he outranks them at those three stats too, making him able to outrank all of them in 10 of 15 performance, passing and defending stats:



I have only done this for Dunk because he's ours. I suspect that there are a few other players in the league who would also outdo Southgate's favourites.

 

[Beanstalk]

The very fact that Mings is a shoo-in is just not right, he’s awful, he’s not even the best English centre back for his club side. Pathetic.

A friend of mine is a Villa STH and said that Mings isn't even the best CB there any more. Konsa is leagues ahead already apparently. 5 years younger, from the England set up (U20 and U21s) and 51 PL appearances so far (to Mings 79). Baffling that Southgate would choose Mings over him for me.

 

[DarrenFreemansPerm]

A friend of mine is a Villa STH and said that Mings isn't even the best CB there any more. Konsa is leagues ahead already apparently. 5 years younger, from the England set up (U20 and U21s) and 51 PL appearances so far (to Mings 79). Baffling that Southgate would choose Mings over him for me.

Yep, my in-laws are all Villa fans and agree with what you’ve posted. Southgate is a nob.