Main Coronavirus / Covid-19 Discussion Thread

[dsr-burnley]

long covid is affecting a lot of younger people.

How many? I've seen anecdotal evidence quoted all over, but surely someone has made an estimate of what proportion of people who get this particular virus get "long Covid", and how that compares with the proportion of people with other viruses that get post viral fatigue syndrome?

 

[Notters]

How many? I've seen anecdotal evidence quoted all over, but surely someone has made an estimate of what proportion of people who get this particular virus get "long Covid", and how that compares with the proportion of people with other viruses that get post viral fatigue syndrome?

No idea what proportion. There have been loads of high profile cases though. E.g. Chris Morris (BBC correspondent) and Dr Xand, both of whom have had heart problems.

 

[crodonilson]

https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1351313981894483970?s=20

March becomes April, which is drifting into May

Nothing less than what can be reasonably expected, the pressure on the NHS will continue for quite some time and even though cases aree now decreasing they are still more than 3 times higher than when we went into lockdown in November and we now have a more transmissible version of the virus. Tight restrictions will be needed for some time, we don't want Easter to be Xmas all over again with another big spike in cases so we should learn our lesson and not ease restrictions then if as expected the pressure on the NHS is high and cases are still in the many thousands. Hopefully by May, if we maintain our discipline and no other variants emerge, with the majority of the 25m in the first tranche of vaccinations have had at least one jab and the changing of the seasons we can begin some limited outdoor contact in small numbers with family and friends.

 

[crodonilson]

How many? I've seen anecdotal evidence quoted all over, but surely someone has made an estimate of what proportion of people who get this particular virus get "long Covid", and how that compares with the proportion of people with other viruses that get post viral fatigue syndrome?

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55331166

1 in 10 or possibly more are still suffering some 12 weeks after, this is a frightening statistic and for these people potentially life changing and possibly permanent damage. We can't just focus on deaths from the elderly many young people are crippled by this too, and whislt they miay not die the impact is still very, very serious.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Scotland extend lockdown till mid feb

 

[dsr-burnley]

Nothing less than what can be reasonably expected, the pressure on the NHS will continue for quite some time and even though cases aree now decreasing they are still more than 3 times higher than when we went into lockdown in November and we now have a more transmissible version of the virus. Tight restrictions will be needed for some time, we don't want Easter to be Xmas all over again with another big spike in cases so we should learn our lesson and not ease restrictions then if as expected the pressure on the NHS is high and cases are still in the many thousands. Hopefully by May, if we maintain our discipline and no other variants emerge, with the majority of the 25m in the first tranche of vaccinations have had at least one jab and the changing of the seasons we can begin some limited outdoor contact in small numbers with family and friends.

The problem with your plan is that the effect on the minds of old people is not being considered at all. The first lockdown was new and supposedly short term, and people could cope. Then in summer we had some good weather early on and the cafes were open later on, so people could get out and about and meet other people. The third lockdown is in winter and it is sheer bloody hell for old people who are bored senseless with nothing to live for. (I am bored as well but I am younger and my mind is not facing dementia caused by old age.)

When do you propose that two friends can visit each others' house for a cup of coffee? You obviously don't have it mind for this summer. You've said before that you don't think winter is a goer because there might be a mutation. Do you think that by summer 2022 that people might be allowed to meet again, or am I being too optimistic?

A million or so will die before summer 2022 anyway, so I suppose they don't matter as long as it isn't coronavirus that they die of. But what about the rest? If a million people lose their minds to save the lives of 10,000, is that a benefit?

I'll tell you one thing. When my time comes, if I was offered instant death or 5 more years when I couldn't remember my name and have forgotten how to go to the toilet, I'll vote for instant. In spite of what people might say about all lives being equal, the life of someone with severe dementia is not (IMHO) a good life at all. While we are trying to ensure people die from something other than coronavirus, we need also to consider the health of the people we save and the health of the people who didn't need saving.

 

[dsr-burnley]

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55331166

1 in 10 or possibly more are still suffering some 12 weeks after, this is a frightening statistic and for these people potentially life changing and possibly permanent damage. We can't just focus on deaths from the elderly many young people are crippled by this too, and whislt they miay not die the impact is still very, very serious.

Or possibly less. 150,000, even as at 16th December, was a lot less than 1 in 10 of those who have had the disease.

What about the impact after 6 months?

 

[beorhthelm]

Nothing less than what can be reasonably expected, the pressure on the NHS will continue for quite some time...

fortunatly, once the vulnerable and over 70s get vaccinated the hospitalisations will drop off sharply, and restrictions can ease. it'll only be politics that keep us from seeing other households at easter. (16-20m vaccinated by then)

 

[dazzer6666]

fortunatly, once the vulnerable and over 70s get vaccinated the hospitalisations will drop off sharply, and restrictions can ease. it'll only be politics that keep us from seeing other households at easter. (16-20m vaccinated by then)

We need to wait for infection rates and then hospitalization and death rates to be on a sustainable and clear downward trend until the real pressure is off the NHS and it's seen to be coping. Good news is the infection rates have already started to drop here (over 22% in the last 7 days rolling despite more testing), and we know from Israel (essentially a pilot nation as they are further ahead with their vacc programme) already that this will soon lead to falls in the hospitalization and death rates as those far more likely to end up in hospital get jabbed.

It's a question of timing now - Bungle is a libertarian, he'll be itching to loosen the screws as soon as he can get away with it (and also for the sake of the economy). I think we'll see some modest tier reversals in some areas during March.

 

[The Wizard]

It turns out CMS dumb footballing brain is equalled by his normal brain





I can’t even read this thread to be honest, how people can seem happy about having a year of their life wasted under house arrest I don’t know, once the most vulnerable have been vaccinated there is literally zero argument to continue the lockdown. Enlighten me what the argument for continuing lockdown is when the 95% of the viruses victims will be protected? (Over 70’s, 80’s and clinically vulnerable, ie’ 16/20m by Easter’)

 

[crodonilson]

Or possibly less. 150,000, even as at 16th December, was a lot less than 1 in 10 of those who have had the disease.

What about the impact after 6 months?

We simply don't know because this disease is so new, which is why we need to tread with extreme caution, it has been wrongly labelled as a virus only really old people or those with underlying health conditions have suffered with but that is simly not true. Many people who were very fit and healthy are suffering many months on, we do not know but they many have to live with their health issues that were caused by covid permanently..

 

[crodonilson]

Over 1,600 deaths recorded today, the figures get even more sobering. Just imagine how high the cases and deaths would be now if it wasn't for lockdown.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

fortunatly, once the vulnerable and over 70s get vaccinated the hospitalisations will drop off sharply, and restrictions can ease. it'll only be politics that keep us from seeing other households at easter. (16-20m vaccinated by then)

As all your comments above, I hope you are right.

The big issue is that Sage has the Governments ear and they seem to be pushing for longer lockdown, this is back up by the nation seemingly OK to go along with what they say on it.

So if they say lockdown needed till June, thats were the public support will be.

 

[dazzer6666]

33,355 new infections reported for yesterday (was over 45k last Tuesday for example) - lowest for very many days so at least something positive - infections obviously being the first indicator of possible progress.

 

[e77]

The more the virus spreads the more chance it has to mutate. Long story short is we need to get the vaccine out ASAP to stop it spreading and mutating.

I suspect low impact things like mask wearing could go on for a long time but once vaccine coverage reaches a given level I think people will be surprised how fast things reopen. However this might not be the case internationally and we might turn into a larger version of New Zealand for a while.

Just waiting for the usual suspects to argue about us helping out the global effort to vaccinate people once we are done. I hope they would have learnt you can't have a new variant appear somewhere in the world and assume it won't travel anymore but that is probably me being optimistic.

 

[darkwolf666]

The problem with your plan is that the effect on the minds of old people is not being considered at all. The first lockdown was new and supposedly short term, and people could cope. Then in summer we had some good weather early on and the cafes were open later on, so people could get out and about and meet other people. The third lockdown is in winter and it is sheer bloody hell for old people who are bored senseless with nothing to live for. (I am bored as well but I am younger and my mind is not facing dementia caused by old age.)

When do you propose that two friends can visit each others' house for a cup of coffee? You obviously don't have it mind for this summer. You've said before that you don't think winter is a goer because there might be a mutation. Do you think that by summer 2022 that people might be allowed to meet again, or am I being too optimistic?

A million or so will die before summer 2022 anyway, so I suppose they don't matter as long as it isn't coronavirus that they die of. But what about the rest? If a million people lose their minds to save the lives of 10,000, is that a benefit?

I'll tell you one thing. When my time comes, if I was offered instant death or 5 more years when I couldn't remember my name and have forgotten how to go to the toilet, I'll vote for instant. In spite of what people might say about all lives being equal, the life of someone with severe dementia is not (IMHO) a good life at all. While we are trying to ensure people die from something other than coronavirus, we need also to consider the health of the people we save and the health of the people who didn't need saving.

I'm not quite sure why no one else picks you up on your figures. Maybe they think it's not worth feeding someone who appears to have a fixed agenda. Me though, I would love to know where your figures come from?

 

[dsr-burnley]

I'm not quite sure why no one else picks you up on your figures. Maybe they think it's not worth feeding someone who appears to have a fixed agenda. Me though, I would love to know where your figures come from?

That one is invented, of course. When you're asking a hypothetical question about what might happen in the future, you can't do it by quoting exact historical figures.

If you think I'm fixated on dementia and old people in general, it can't be helped. I'm not going to change and say "dementia doesn't matter today". As long as the problems of dementia are (as far as I can see) largely ignored, I will draw attention to them.

 

[nicko31]

Over 1,600 deaths recorded today, the figures get even more sobering. Just imagine how high the cases and deaths would be now if it wasn't for lockdown.

Yes horrible number, one for lockdown sceptics to ponder

Hopefully we are within days of the peak and don't ever see these numbers again.

Cases down to 33k and falling steadily, lowest since Christmas

 

[darkwolf666]

That one is invented, of course. When you're asking a hypothetical question about what might happen in the future, you can't do it by quoting exact historical figures.

If you think I'm fixated on dementia and old people in general, it can't be helped. I'm not going to change and say "dementia doesn't matter today". As long as the problems of dementia are (as far as I can see) largely ignored, I will draw attention to them.

Yet you appear to be saying the opposite...

 

[dsr-burnley]

We simply don't know because this disease is so new, which is why we need to tread with extreme caution, it has been wrongly labelled as a virus only really old people or those with underlying health conditions have suffered with but that is simly not true. Many people who were very fit and healthy are suffering many months on, we do not know but they many have to live with their health issues that were caused by covid permanently..

Exactly. People's lives have been improved by lockdown because they would have caught covid and didn't. People's lives have been made worse by lockdown because they have developed dementia or other mental health problems. The two both need considering and the effects of one offset against the effects of the other to achieve a "least worst" solution.