[Politics] Brexit

[WATFORD zero]

Remain in the customs union, or A customs union. which is effectively the same thing but was the semantics TM used to get around it not being a Brexity solution.

Wrong thread https://www.northstandchat.com/showthread.php?383715-What-do-we-do-about-Ireland-NI-Tariff-Free-deal-and-Fishing

And still doesn't address the Ireland/NI issue

 

[Baldseagull]

Internet slurs against Humphrys, a pushback because he dared not tow the Remain line in his work. Personally he was and is a passionate Remainer.

He thought that the BBC should listen and broadcast all views, including in unfashionable towns away from the big cities, he’s also mentioned the Daily Mail which he thought should form part of BBC material only because it represented the views of those folk.

I agree that criticism of him being pro brexit was unfair, I also think criticism of the BBC being pro remain in its output is unfair. One of the objections by the Leave press is that on average Question Time invited more pro remain MP's on than Leave supporting MP's by a factor of 1.6 to 1 yet in the House of Commons, Remain MP's outnumbered Leave MP's by 3 to 1, so who is really being over represented here? Lord Adonis complained that Farage was given time on QT during a European Election in which he was running for the Brexit Party, when no other Party had a candidate invited on to the show, the other parties were represented though, just not by candidates, Farage had got himself invited on by refusing to let the BBC have another Brexit Party member, and then complaining that his party was being treated unfairly!


There is a fallacy that impartiality means it must give equal time to proponents of all persuasions, it does not, it is charged with giving "due" impartiality, so there is no need for it to put up a flat earther every time they have Brian Cox on the news talking about an event in our solar system.

 

[vegster]

I don't have one and never have.

In all seriousness, I don't believe there ever was one. That's why there is still no solution 4.5 years down the line.

If we leave with 'no deal' it will address the tariff free access to the EU market and fishing (at a very significant cost), but we are still stuck with the Ireland/NI one. I'm sorry and I'm really not having a pop, but in my opinion, this has been the case from the very beginning.

Do you have any ideas ? (let's face it, between us we can't do any worse than what's being done )

Whatever happened to those " Technological Solutions" that were popular a couple of years back? Did they go the same way as the World Beating Track and Trace and the "Moonshot " daily mass testing plan?

 

[WATFORD zero]

This caught my attention this morning

https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/news/uk/downing-street-departures-will-have-no-impact-on-brexit-talks-says-minister/

Not the headline, but this quote

Mr Eustice said “Both sides recognise that time is very, very short. It’s not long ago we were saying we needed to get some kind of conclusion by the middle of October.
There does come a point frankly where businesses need to know what they are preparing for."

 

[Chicken Run]

It's very noticeable on the 'Brexit Good News' thread on the main Board. Despite having a day to think about it, no leave supporter has been capable of giving a single definable or measurable benefit to Brexit

Tick tock

What about less lunatic uninsured Brazilians (pretending to be Portuguese) riding round our city’s delivering shit food ? [emoji6][emoji6]

 

[WATFORD zero]

What about less lunatic uninsured Brazilians (pretending to be Portuguese) riding round our city’s delivering shit food ? [emoji6][emoji6]

I know it's Sunday, but it's still a little early, isn't it

 

[Lever]

On. Our. Way.

Oh dear.
That meaningless mantra again.
Why?

 

[Baldseagull]

What about less lunatic uninsured Brazilians (pretending to be Portuguese) riding round our city’s delivering shit food ? [emoji6][emoji6]

We have visa free travel arrangements for Brazilian citizens, and they are the highest number of overstayers. There is no measure we can't introduce as EU members that we can as non members that will affect this.

 

[Weststander]

I agree that criticism of him being pro brexit was unfair, I also think criticism of the BBC being pro remain in its output is unfair. One of the objections by the Leave press is that on average Question Time invited more pro remain MP's on than Leave supporting MP's by a factor of 1.6 to 1 yet in the House of Commons, Remain MP's outnumbered Leave MP's by 3 to 1, so who is really being over represented here? Lord Adonis complained that Farage was given time on QT during a European Election in which he was running for the Brexit Party, when no other Party had a candidate invited on to the show, the other parties were represented though, just not by candidates, Farage had got himself invited on by refusing to let the BBC have another Brexit Party member, and then complaining that his party was being treated unfairly!


There is a fallacy that impartiality means it must give equal time to proponents of all persuasions, it does not, it is charged with giving "due" impartiality, so there is no need for it to put up a flat earther every time they have Brian Cox on the news talking about an event in our solar system.

Good post.

QT is interesting. I watched it a lot in the 80's and 90's all the way back to Robin Day The audience was largely a baying mob of lefties. Tories or anyone having to guts to challenge Labour were shouted over. The BBC later admitted (I could dig out a quote or two) that they couldn't accurately screen the audience to give a fair representation, because people lied about their political views to get in.

This millennium, I've only been an occasional viewer. For my sins I do love the explosive episodes, so I've tuned in when they've had combinations of variously; Will Self, David Starkey, George Galloway, Peter Hitchens, Katie Hopkins et al. It doesn't always go as you might imagine, for example I've seen Wilf Self systematically take apart Labour shadow ministers.

But what surprised me after years rarely watching QT was the complete turnaround in the audience make up, it's now very often a largely baying mob of Brexiteers, shouting over Remainers. In my little part of Brighton, I hadn't spotted that profound change in our society.

 

[Billy the Fish]

Oh I agree it is set towards a full Federal State, what I am arguing is that the powers of that state are not yet decided and that we should be in it to ensure that it does not centralise powers it need not have, or try to get there without proper consent to do so. I say the debate on where the limits should be and what is beneficial to all for the EU to have control of is worth having, not that it should have all the powers of each nation state.
There must be some laws and regulations that you agree should be set at the widest possible level?

In theory I think what you say makes sense, in reality I don't think it will ever happen in a good way. The federal state will always take more power and I'm talking over the course of a lifetime. A financial crisis here, a pandemic there, they'll find a solution that involves centralisation. I understand why you'd want it though.

Your question is difficult for me to answer because on the face of it the ideas sound good - homogenous regulations for food and the environment isn't a bad thing, corporate tax avoidance isn't a bad thing. This could all be agreed by treaty between nation states, I'd accept that. Being forced by the ECJ - not so much.

 

[Chicken Run]

We have visa free travel arrangements for Brazilian citizens, and they are the highest number of overstayers. There is no measure we can't introduce as EU members that we can as non members that will affect this.

Oh well, seeing as they are all claiming to be Portuguese we’ll still ship them out[emoji6]

Edit: Every day is a school day....

The BBC reports Brazil is fifth in the top 10 of illegal immigrant nationalities in the UK, according to Home Office figures for 2011, and is the only country on the list for which short-term visitors do not need a visa.

 

[daveinplzen]

**** me, Brazilians now??

 

[Baldseagull]

Oh well, seeing as they are all claiming to be Portuguese we’ll still ship them out[emoji6]

Edit: Every day is a school day....

The BBC reports Brazil is fifth in the top 10 of illegal immigrant nationalities in the UK, according to Home Office figures for 2011, and is the only country on the list for which short-term visitors do not need a visa.

Yeah, sorry, the highest number of overstayers without visitor visa required. Theresa May wanted to introduce Visa travel for Brazil when she was Home Secretary, but it was concluded it would be damaging for trade to do so. I wish such pragmatism existed today.

 

[Guinness Boy]

**** me, Brazilians now??

Imagine a Britain full of sunshine, great football, salsa music, excellent butchers shops and cocktails. We can't have these Brazilians coming over here and improving our culture. I demand grey cardigans to go with my blue passport.

 

[Chicken Run]

**** me, Brazilians now??

I know you only lurk on threads with Brexit in the title but if you took time to look at other content on NSC and maybe broaden your horizons and you being the clever chap you like to think you are will see my Brazilian comments are a a tongue in cheek reference to the Deliveroo riders insurance thread.

Still you love being triggered, it gives you a reason to get up after a night on the weed eh.....

[emoji6]

 

[Chicken Run]

Imagine a Britain full of sunshine, great football, salsa music, excellent butchers shops and cocktails. We can't have these Brazilians coming over here and improving our culture. I demand grey cardigans to go with my blue passport.

See my reply to DIP

 

[Guinness Boy]

See my reply to DIP

A three page thread half way down page one that's been viewed by 198 people?

I suspect my satarising of the casual Islamophobia that takes over far more popular threads whooshed you?

 

[Randy McNob]

In theory I think what you say makes sense, in reality I don't think it will ever happen in a good way. The federal state will always take more power and I'm talking over the course of a lifetime. A financial crisis here, a pandemic there, they'll find a solution that involves centralisation. I understand why you'd want it though.

Your question is difficult for me to answer because on the face of it the ideas sound good - homogenous regulations for food and the environment isn't a bad thing, corporate tax avoidance isn't a bad thing. This could all be agreed by treaty between nation states, I'd accept that. Being forced by the ECJ - not so much.

I think there is a reason why prominent leave campaigners have preached that too much regulation is a bad thing, see below

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Easy. If remain won the referendum 52 / 48 it would give strength to the further debate about our relationship with Europe and the possibility of a 2nd vote in future plus it would put pressure on government to seek to reform the EU. Ukip would still exist so leavers would still have a voice. A far better outcome than where we are now.

My views on nationalism is based on all brexiter opinion from radio talk shows and social media and The people that led the debate like Farage with populism and nationalistic tropes, and there was the famous breaking point poster, xenophobia thrown in for good measure. I'm not tarring everyone with the same brush but it was at the forefront of the debate and enough to sway the vote one way

You mean Patriots who could see this country losing its identity to the ever controlling EU, God bless Nige and the Brexit party
Regards
DF

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

I think there is a reason why prominent leave campaigners have preached that too much regulation is a bad thing, see below

View attachment 130464

Can't see Neil kinnock and Tony blair did you miss them out on purpose?
Regards
DF