[Travel] A259 Travel Chaos

[Stat Brother]

“For example, it takes a route seven bus 31 per cent longer to get from Hove to Brighton Marina than it did ten years ago." 31% in ten years! Worth pointing out that a lot of that increase is caused by the removal of road and parking space and its replacement with bus and cycle lanes. Has the penny finally dropped that simply providing bus and cycle lanes does NOT encourage people to use them? I've no doubt that they result in an increase in bus and cycle useage - but not nearly enough and the remaining road users more than swamp the remaining road space. Nor do higher parking or fuel prices act as a deterrent as driving is relatively price inelastic

For a town like Brighton there is no simple solution - but building P 'n' R sites on the outskirts (like Stat Brother's Utrecht) and banning all cars from the city centre would be a good place to start. And making public transport affordable.

You can't (shouldn't) have an 'alternative' transport policy.

The powers that be need to have a coherent car reduction policy which everything else then feeds into.

Just alienating car drivers isn't enough, all stick and no carrot won't get people out of cars because there just isn't a stick big enough.

It's one thing to get us car drivers to grumble 'why am I doing this?'

But all the time were not looking at sleek, safe, well run, affordable alternatives going past quicker it's all meaningless.


Drivers need to be grumbling "why am I doing this?...



...when I should be doing that".

 

[blue-shifted]

“For example, it takes a route seven bus 31 per cent longer to get from Hove to Brighton Marina than it did ten years ago." 31% in ten years! Worth pointing out that a lot of that increase is caused by the removal of road and parking space and its replacement with bus and cycle lanes. Has the penny finally dropped that simply providing bus and cycle lanes does NOT encourage people to use them? I've no doubt that they result in an increase in bus and cycle useage - but not nearly enough and the remaining road users more than swamp the remaining road space. Nor do higher parking or fuel prices act as a deterrent as driving is relatively price inelastic

For a town like Brighton there is no simple solution - but building P 'n' R sites on the outskirts (like Stat Brother's Utrecht) and banning all cars from the city centre would be a good place to start. And making public transport affordable.

There's barely a bus or cycle lane on the entire number 7 route though. There's a bit near Brighton station where cars can't go, but apart from that, nothing.

Getting people out of cars is about offering carrot to go with the stick. The buses are there, but crucially, people will only get on them if they are quick and inexpensive. Continued inflation busting price rises will be completely counter productive. The bus company clearly have a very different set of priorities to the council, which is understandable but one of the main things holding our city back.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

I didn't manage to ride the bike today as I had to do a round loop of Rottingdean - Falmer - Kingston - Newhaven - Peacehaven because my son needed to be at cricket training by 8am at BACA, & he didn't trust the buses after yesterday.
The traffic was fine on the roads everywhere. Less than a 5 min holdup in Rottingdean and that was it.

Yep all clear when I walked my daughter to school this morning.

 

[mune ni kamome]

Used the Park and Ride at Pompey yesterday. Superb ! £4 return, however many you have in the car. Buses every 15 minutes with a new modern waiting room. I’m sometimes ashamed of the Brighton I grew up in and loved.

 

[Fignon's Ponytail]

Used the Park and Ride at Pompey yesterday. Superb ! £4 return, however many you have in the car. Buses every 15 minutes with a new modern waiting room. I’m sometimes ashamed of the Brighton I grew up in and loved.

We did that in November when we went down for a weekend and did some Xmas shopping. Very easy, and the new bus station is great.

 

[Stat Brother]

Used the Park and Ride at Pompey yesterday. Superb ! £4 return, however many you have in the car. Buses every 15 minutes with a new modern waiting room. I’m sometimes ashamed of the Brighton I grew up in and loved.

A little while ago I rode too, round then back from the Isle of Wight.
We went under the A27 after Havant in order to get to Portsmouth Harbour via the M275 past Langstone Harbour.

I couldn't work out why the scrap of land almost under the 27 was full of cars, it made absolutely no sense.
That is until we got onto the cycle path.
Suddenly the path was full of wheel tracks.

The M275 was full of stationary cars.

The single use cycle path tracked around the road until it turned into the city centre.


Obviously the daily commuters were longingly looking at people moving, for free and thinking 'I'm having some of that'.
But even then there was still no adequate provision, so the commuters found a way.

When I remember, passing that spot, I look to see if it's been made into a 50 space car park, charging £10 a day and it being completely empty.
So far they've resisted to cash cow, which I find amazing.

 

[Uter]

I dare say a lot of the increase in number 7 journey times, especially those eastbound, was down to ever more taxis snarling up the front of Brighton station. I've been stuck on buses unable to pull out loads of time there. It'll be interesting to see if the rank move leads to a measurable improvement. The position of the crossing doesn't help either because whenever it's red a bus is then frequently unable to pull out because of a car stopping at the traffic light. I can't help but think some sort of innovative solution might help here that stops cars further back from the crossing so that the bus stop exit is not blocked.

The rest of the increase I'd attribute to increased car and delivery van use. Nothing to do with bus lanes or cycle lanes.

An issue within their control is boarding and alighting times. Most 7 buses now seem to have a separate exit for alighting so the issue of having to wait for everyone to get off before boarding seems to have been addressed. From observation I'd guess those paying cash each take 10-20 seconds longer to board than those using cards. Now that they accept contactless PAYG the next logical step should be to go completely cashless IMO. This would shave quite a few minutes off an end to end journey.

 

[Uter]

There's barely a bus or cycle lane on the entire number 7 route though. There's a bit near Brighton station where cars can't go, but apart from that, nothing.

Getting people out of cars is about offering carrot to go with the stick. The buses are there, but crucially, people will only get on them if they are quick and inexpensive. Continued inflation busting price rises will be completely counter productive. The bus company clearly have a very different set of priorities to the council, which is understandable but one of the main things holding our city back.

Trouble is there is a bit of a chicken and egg situation. You need money to make any meaningful changes and in the absence of central government funding that usually means increasing revenue from parking, be it permit permits, car park charges, or even introducing a workplace parking levy a la Nottingham.

That means making tough and unpopular decisions and that is something local politicians seem scared to do.

 

[MJsGhost]

Couldn't they open up the bus lanes when they decide road works at stupid times? Or even better just get rid of the bus lanes all together.

I know a lot of people living out that way that get buses into town entirely because it's LOADS quicker thanks to the bus lane. Take the bus lane away and fewer people will take buses - you'll simply get a load more cars on that route in - little or no improvement overall on that particular road and even worse congestion in town.

 

[BNthree]

I dare say a lot of the increase in number 7 journey times, especially those eastbound, was down to ever more taxis snarling up the front of Brighton station. I've been stuck on buses unable to pull out loads of time there. It'll be interesting to see if the rank move leads to a measurable improvement. The position of the crossing doesn't help either because whenever it's red a bus is then frequently unable to pull out because of a car stopping at the traffic light. I can't help but think some sort of innovative solution might help here that stops cars further back from the crossing so that the bus stop exit is not blocked.

Having pretty much every bus route that goes through town going up and down narrow North Street can't help either. Been sat on buses waiting to go through North Street load of times.

As has been alluded to the powers that be need not be anti-car but pro the alternatives. It's not about trying to ban something but about making the alternatives the best option.

 

[blue-shifted]

I dare say a lot of the increase in number 7 journey times, especially those eastbound, was down to ever more taxis snarling up the front of Brighton station. I've been stuck on buses unable to pull out loads of time there. It'll be interesting to see if the rank move leads to a measurable improvement. The position of the crossing doesn't help either because whenever it's red a bus is then frequently unable to pull out because of a car stopping at the traffic light. I can't help but think some sort of innovative solution might help here that stops cars further back from the crossing so that the bus stop exit is not blocked.

The rest of the increase I'd attribute to increased car use. Nothing to do with bus lanes or cycle lanes.

An issue within their control is boarding and alighting times. Most 7 buses now seem to have a separate exit for alighting so the issue of having to wait for everyone to get of before boarding seems to have been addressed. From observation I'd guess those paying cash each take 10-20 seconds longer to board than those using cards. Now that they accept contactless PAYG the next logical step should be to go completely cashless IMO. This would shave quite a few minutes off an end to end journey.

Yes. There are very simple things which can be done.

Other cities have tap on and tap off without having to have a conversation with the driver about the myriad of ticket options available.

Different on and off door will make a big difference in my opinion

Having more clarity about where the bus is actually going so people who don't necessarily know the town can use the buses without having to check with the driver about it. There's not even simple maps at the bus stop. The new app is way worse than the last one and they sign at the front of the bus only shows the end destination. Fine if you know the route, not so good if you don't.

The routes which go around the residential suburbs have to crawl past parked cars. I live near the top of the 6 route and it's painfully slow, equally the buses that crawl around Moulecoomb and Coldean must spend most of their time fighting through oncoming traffic. Parking restrictions on bus routes please

 

[The Oldman]

Yes. There are very simple things which can be done.

Other cities have tap on and tap off without having to have a conversation with the driver about the myriad of ticket option

As do all B & H buses

 

[blue-shifted]

Having pretty much every bus route that goes through town going up and down narrow North Street can't help either. Been sat on buses waiting to go through North Street load of times.

As has been alluded to the powers that be need not be anti-car but pro the alternatives. It's not about trying to ban something but about making the alternatives the best option.

Agree. Why are there no routes which go along the seafront, given that most of our attractions are there?

Why are there no routes going across town on the New England Hill, Viaduct Road route?

We need fewer on Western Rd and North St

 

[CHAPPERS]

There’s no need to the 26 to go any further than Old Steine given that the 46 goes the same way, and there’s loads of available buses you can change on to if you really need to get to Churchill square from there. Makes no sense to me. It could then just turn around and go back up to Hollingbury.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[blue-shifted]

Yes. There are very simple things which can be done.

Other cities have tap on and tap off without having to have a conversation with the driver about the myriad of ticket option

As do all B & H buses

This backs up my point then. I live in Brighton, use the buses and am completely perplexed by which ticket is going to get me where I want to go the cheapest. I don’t really see why there needs to be different types of tickets now.

No cash, no ticket options. Everyone taps on and off and the computer works out the cheapest charge

Kids could have a pre loaded tap on and tap off bus card or a quid a journey otherwise

 

[Uter]

No cash, no ticket options. Everyone taps on and off and the computer works out the cheapest charge

I think in theory that's what should happen if you tap on and off now. You shouldn't pay more than a day saver no matter how many journeys you make within that area in a day. Not sure if there is a weekly or monthly cap like London. Can't be bothered to check.

 

[Brovion]

There's barely a bus or cycle lane on the entire number 7 route though. There's a bit near Brighton station where cars can't go, but apart from that, nothing.

Getting people out of cars is about offering carrot to go with the stick. The buses are there, but crucially, people will only get on them if they are quick and inexpensive. Continued inflation busting price rises will be completely counter productive. The bus company clearly have a very different set of priorities to the council, which is understandable but one of the main things holding our city back.

Indeed. Their job isn't actually to provide a public transport service for Brighton - their job is to make a profit for their shareholders.

And don't get me started on Brighton bus routes. I appreciate that the Victorians, very stupidly, built two of the city's four central railway stations (London Road and Preston Park) in inaccessible areas, but why isn't there any attempt to integrate them? Why aren't there more east/west routes, say via Fiveways? Why is everything geared towards the centre forcing everyone who wants to go East/West to go in and then come out? Obviously because they're the lucrative routes - and we're back to my first paragraph

 

[blue-shifted]

Indeed. Their job isn't actually to provide a public transport service for Brighton - their job is to make a profit for their shareholders.

And don't get me started on Brighton bus routes. I appreciate that the Victorians, very stupidly, built two of the city's four central railway stations (London Road and Preston Park) in inaccessible areas, but why isn't there any attempt to integrate them? Why aren't there more east/west routes, say via Fiveways? Why is everything geared towards the centre forcing everyone who wants to go East/West to go in and then come out? Obviously because they're the lucrative routes - and we're back to my first paragraph

There were several other station's then as I understand it, Kemp Town, one Near Elm Grove Primary. That route made sense at the time. They were prepared to make a commitment to public transport

 

[blue-shifted]

I think in theory that's what should happen if you tap on and off now. You shouldn't pay more than a day saver no matter how many journeys you make within that area in a day. Not sure if there is a weekly or monthly cap like London. Can't be bothered to check.

Therein lies the problem. Nobody is really sure. Could spend time working out the bus system. Easier just to do everything by car though isn't it

 

[Brovion]

There were several other station's then as I understand it, Kemp Town, one Near Elm Grove Primary. That route made sense at the time. They were prepared to make a commitment to public transport

O/T Yes, I was being slightly facetious. And yes, there used to be a line to Kemptown. It branched off from the Lewes line after London Road station, there was a Lewes Road station and then it crossed Lewes Road on a viaduct at the Vogue Gyratory where Sainsburys now is. There was another station at Hartington Road, then it went through a tunnel, before terminating in Kemptown.

Can't even blame its closure on Beeching as it stopped carrying passengers in the 1930s. (1932). However IIRC the viaduct was still there in 1975.

EDIT: Just read the Wikipedia article on it. Hartington Road station actually only lasted for five years, between 1906 and 1911!