[Politics] Brexit

[beorhthelm]

Does anyone remember 'The Northern Ireland Problem' being raised during the Referendum campaign?

i dont, if it was it was minor. Gibraltar was more prominant issue.

 

[ManOfSussex]

It wasn't "too complex". We could have left by now, and any short term shock to the system would have been over with by now and it would be done.

I was a fool for ever believing the vote would be respected.

What wasn't complex about the Irish border then?

 

[dingodan]

I'm just stunned that you appear to have given up so easily and you are not campaigning for a referendum to take back democracy from the MPs and give it to the people

Campaigning for a referendum?

You must be joking. I've had my pants pulled down once thanks.

Let's all just carry on pretending that voting matters etc.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

Yeah, just not this deal... Or that deal...

...Ok I will be prepared to vote for this deal, [whisper from the bench behind them] "pssst, this one might actually get through"...

Oh wait, no sorry, I just found a reason that this deal is infact unacceptable also...

Come back with a proper deal and people will vote for it, unless they are in the ERG

Such a shame because I really want to support Brexit, promise...

ad infinitum...

do you mean a suicidal no deal, or the deal the current PM voted down?

 

[Stat Brother]

we already get some from Russia, as well as other non-EU countries. other than our main indigenous oil industry, a large amount of fuel comes from Norway. this will not change anytime soon without infrastructure to support.

Other than the fact it already has..

The sources of crude oil imports from other countries are shown in Map 3A. The main source of the
UK’s imports has historically been Norway given its proximity to the UK and similarity in its crude types.
However more recently there has been a sharp decrease in volumes from Norway; in 2016 Norway
provided 62 per cent of UK imports but by 2018 this had fallen to 39 per cent after a decrease of 3.9
million tonnes compared to 2017


https://assets.publishing.service.g...ads/attachment_data/file/822303/Chapter_3.pdf


I've read the above and most striking from the text is the word 'stable',

 

[Stat Brother]

i dont, if it was it was minor. Gibraltar was more prominant issue.

Oh yes that's right, Gibraltar was very noisy over Brexit.

 

[Gwylan]

Yeah, just not this deal... Or that deal...

How can you say that? Parliament has voted on one withdrawal agreement, just one (three times!), it hasn't been presented with other options to vote on so you have no idea whether other ones would have passed.

It hasn't voted on a trading deal yet, as none has been discussed

 

[Thunder Bolt]

What wasn't complex about the Irish border then?

I've just been watching this clip from North and Southern Ireland.

https://twitter.com/dionfanning/status/1169309541902770182

[tweet]1169309541902770182[/tweet]

 

[WATFORD zero]

Campaigning for a referendum?

You must be joking. I've had my pants pulled down once thanks.

Let's all just carry on pretending that voting matters etc.

Well the choice is yours

Take democracy away from MPs and give it back to the people

or

Don't do anything, just moan about it and stop voting

 

[beorhthelm]

Other than the fact it already has..

The sources of crude oil imports from other countries are shown in Map 3A. The main source of the
UK’s imports has historically been Norway given its proximity to the UK and similarity in its crude types.
However more recently there has been a sharp decrease in volumes from Norway; in 2016 Norway
provided 62 per cent of UK imports but by 2018 this had fallen to 39 per cent after a decrease of 3.9
million tonnes compared to 2017


https://assets.publishing.service.g...ads/attachment_data/file/822303/Chapter_3.pdf


I've read the above and most striking from the text is the word 'stable',

fair enough. i remember a while ago there was something about not being about to take advantage of US oil, appears thats been resolved.

 

[Stat Brother]

fair enough. i remember a while ago there was something about not being about to take advantage of US oil, appears thats been resolved.

Yep as well as Algeria Nigeria and Qatar.

 

[jimhigham]

I don't think I've posted on this thread yet. I've been scared of the inevitable bitching that will ensue. Declaring my own hand, I voted to remain. For what it's worth, I think Parliament will rue the day it rejected May's deal, as we would have been out by now and moving onto the next phase of negotiations. I would have been happy enough to accept that at the time as the logical outcome of the referendum result. Hell, if it was offered again today, I would say "go for it".

So we now seem to be collectively paralysed. I'm not a fan of the option of another general election, as it takes the defining issue of the day and bundles it up with everything else. This skews the outcome and means that nobody can legitimately claim they have a mandate on any issues pertaining to Brexit.

Given the paralysis, I would suggest putting it back to the people for a final say. Parliament has tried and failed to determine what was meant by the first poll so a second would provide clarity. I expect at this stage that Parliament probably would sign off on the outcome of a second vote simply in order to be able to move on.

I would advocate for a two phase vote. The first would have the three options of remain, leave without a deal and leave with the deal offered to May. The second phase, possibly two weeks to a month later, would take the top two options from the first for a run off. This would prevent the leave option being split and defeated in a single vote. It would also offer leave voters two bites at the cherry, which certainly seems fair given they were the victors in the 2016 vote.

But what do I know anyway? I'm just some git trying to get on with putting food on the table and getting a daughter through university.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

33m people voted. 17m advised the government they wanted to leave the EU. They didn't say how, they didn't say they wanted the Irish Border arrangements changed, they didn't say they didn't want a deal. 16m advised the government they wanted to stay in the EU.

Parliament is our sovereign democracy, our constitution. You and others appear to want to ride roughshod over that 400 year principle in order to get what you want - even though what you want was never explicit.

So the government went out to a GE in 2017 for a mandate to enact a leaving of the EU that they believe the 17m wanted, and they failed to secure a majority. The people, your vote and mine split between parties offering hard and soft exits from the EU, some truthfully offering the chance to remain still.

The bare faced lies at the moment, easy to pick up on given they are things that only happened 2 weeks ago but being lied about at the dispatch box is from our PM.

Thank goodness for a sovereign Parliament, something Brexiters banged on about returning all power to from the EU. Almost ridiculous they now throw their toys out of their prams that it is enacting it's democratic purpose.

Pretty good summary, that.

 

[Gazwag]

Same old flannel to cover up their own self interests, 65% of the constituencies in this country voted leave FACT
regards
DE

That's like saying 100% of voters who live on islands within the UK, inhabited by one person only, voted to leave - its meaningless. The referendum was stay v leave over the whole country, constituencies were irrelevant.

 

[WATFORD zero]

I don't think I've posted on this thread yet. I've been scared of the inevitable bitching that will ensue. Declaring my own hand, I voted to remain. For what it's worth, I think Parliament will rue the day it rejected May's deal, as we would have been out by now and moving onto the next phase of negotiations. I would have been happy enough to accept that at the time as the logical outcome of the referendum result. Hell, if it was offered again today, I would say "go for it".

So we now seem to be collectively paralysed. I'm not a fan of the option of another general election, as it takes the defining issue of the day and bundles it up with everything else. This skews the outcome and means that nobody can legitimately claim they have a mandate on any issues pertaining to Brexit.

Given the paralysis, I would suggest putting it back to the people for a final say. Parliament has tried and failed to determine what was meant by the first poll so a second would provide clarity. I expect at this stage that Parliament probably would sign off on the outcome of a second vote simply in order to be able to move on.

I would advocate for a two phase vote. The first would have the three options of remain, leave without a deal and leave with the deal offered to May. The second phase, possibly two weeks to a month later, would take the top two options from the first for a run off. This would prevent the leave option being split and defeated in a single vote. It would also offer leave voters two bites at the cherry, which certainly seems fair given they were the victors in the 2016 vote.

But what do I know anyway? I'm just some git trying to get on with putting food on the table and getting a daughter through university.

You appear to know a lot more than some posters on here

You can do the referendum in one go though, by simply having 2nd options

One from nearly a year ago https://www.northstandchat.com/showthread.php?368879-1st-2nd-choice-Referendum-Poll&p=8699412&viewfull=1#post8699412

I agree that a GE currently is a waste of time, but because of the politics of it, I can see us having to go GE, Referendum, GE

 

[Lever]

I don't think I've posted on this thread yet. I've been scared of the inevitable bitching that will ensue. Declaring my own hand, I voted to remain. For what it's worth, I think Parliament will rue the day it rejected May's deal, as we would have been out by now and moving onto the next phase of negotiations. I would have been happy enough to accept that at the time as the logical outcome of the referendum result. Hell, if it was offered again today, I would say "go for it".

So we now seem to be collectively paralysed. I'm not a fan of the option of another general election, as it takes the defining issue of the day and bundles it up with everything else. This skews the outcome and means that nobody can legitimately claim they have a mandate on any issues pertaining to Brexit.

Given the paralysis, I would suggest putting it back to the people for a final say. Parliament has tried and failed to determine what was meant by the first poll so a second would provide clarity. I expect at this stage that Parliament probably would sign off on the outcome of a second vote simply in order to be able to move on.

I would advocate for a two phase vote. The first would have the three options of remain, leave without a deal and leave with the deal offered to May. The second phase, possibly two weeks to a month later, would take the top two options from the first for a run off. This would prevent the leave option being split and defeated in a single vote. It would also offer leave voters two bites at the cherry, which certainly seems fair given they were the victors in the 2016 vote.

But what do I know anyway? I'm just some git trying to get on with putting food on the table and getting a daughter through university.

I think this is a thoughtful contribution and a fair suggestion at the end. The problem is that this has gone beyond sensible and is now firmly visceral.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Yep as well as Algeria Nigeria and Qatar.

Every day's a school day

 

[Grombleton]

I'm not a fan of the option of another general election, as it takes the defining issue of the day and bundles it up with everything else. This skews the outcome and means that nobody can legitimately claim they have a mandate on any issues pertaining to Brexit.

This is my main concern - the next GE will effectively be a second Brexit referendum, rather than a GE to discuss all the other issues in the country that should also be included: health, education, defence et al. I know these things are deeply intertwined with Brexit, but I fear these things will be overlooked and it'll just be parties campaigning on a Leave or Remain ticket and the other issues will be mere footnotes.

 

[Gwylan]

For what it's worth, I think Parliament will rue the day it rejected May's deal, as we would have been out by now and moving onto the next phase of negotiations.

If the Labour party really wanted to make mischief, it could take the accidental amendment of May's deal as a genuine position and put it back to the House. The Tories would then be skewered, nearly all of them voted for that exact deal just a few months previously, how could they reject it? It wouldn't pass as the Tory front bench, ERG, the LDs and SNP (and some Labour) would vote against it but it would be a very uncomfortable couple of hours for the Conservatives.

 

[Stat Brother]

Every day's a school day

It's amazing what you can find out when someone is stupid enough to post:-

'I don't normally agree with Farrage but...'


I had no idea No Deal was going to screw so badly with petrol.