[Politics] Brexit

[Pretty pink fairy]

Excellent - so we'll get our petrol from Russia, and chicken from the US. Whats not to worry about?

Bercow and his side kicks ??
Regards
DW

 

[Simster]

We are not allowed to leave. It's not up to us.

The fact that people like you believe this is a very good reason for not holding over simplistic, badly thought-through plebicites. If we never held one again after this Brexit mess is resolved, it would be 50 billion years too soon.


Whether you believe MPs are dishonestly choosing not to uphold the result, or that it was a question that was simply too complex to just put to the people with a simple Yes/No, this referendum has badly damaged democracy in this country.

 

[pb21]

What is your definition of 'good'?

better or best. having admirable, pleasing, superior, or positive qualities; not negative, bad or mediocre

Seriously though, if you no idea what the best possible (good) deal is, how do you know one is possible to come up with in two years, or are you just assuming?

 

[WATFORD zero]

It's not simple at all. If you could get agreement that we should have a second vote on Brexit, and there are some very basic reasons why that would be wrong, but if you could start down that path, those same MP's will not agree on what the terms of the vote are. I admire the fact that you would allow no deal to be on the ballet. Well MP's wouldn't allow it. It would be "Soft Brexit" (with terms which would go against the principle things people voted for, i.e. leaving the CU, the SM, the ECJ etc) or Remain, and that is the only vote they would ever allow.

Don't you get it? We are not allowed to leave the EU. We were asked on the basis that we were expected to give the "right answer".

We are not allowed to leave. It's not up to us.

I'm just stunned that you appear to have given up so easily and you are not campaigning for a referendum to take back democracy from the MPs and give it to the people

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

The fact that people like you believe this is a very good reason for not holding over simplistic, badly thought-through plebicites. If we never held one again after this Brexit mess is resolved, it would be 50 billion years too soon.


Whether you believe MPs are dishonestly choosing not to uphold the result, or that it was a question that was simply too complex to just put to the people with a simple Yes/No, this referendum has badly damaged democracy in this country.

Wrong, it's shown up the utter contempt that some so called MP's have shown for the electorate of this country BUT they will reap what they have down because the people will have the final say when we have the Election , that's how Democracy works
Regards
DF

 

[Is it PotG?]

better or best. having admirable, pleasing, superior, or positive qualities; not negative, bad or mediocre

Seriously though, if you no idea what the best possible (good) deal is, how do you know one is possible to come up with in two years, or are you just assuming?

I didn't ask for a dictionary definition of good. I simply wondered what your definition of a good Brexit deal was?

 

[nicko31]

Ultimately, its not that the EU has us by the short and curlies, it really is the reality of the Irish border - did people really think magic fairies were going to make trade from an EU country into NI frictionless while the mainland UK to the EU operates under some WTO rules in the event of No Deal? It's nonsense. Complete delusion.

The unpalatable backstop in the deal to hardline Tories, something we've known about for a year has had no firm alternative put forward. Nothing. No reasonable working solution. Threatening No Deal is simply unworkable given the world knows a return to border checks on the Irish mainland is unthinkable, the GFA cannot be thrown to the wayside - you can kiss goodbye to any US trade deal if you did.

The only politicians serving their self interest at the moment is the Tory front bench. Prepared to burn Rome to the ground to get what they want.

English exceptionalism is at the root of the Tories problem, they still want admit reality over Ireland, they have no solution as no solutions exist, hence their issue with the backstop.

If the Tories secure a majority without the DUP's help, they will have no hesitation in throwing NI under a bus and drawing a line in the Irish sea, that will be the beginning of the end for the UK and will have serious consequence for peace in Ireland - no one values the Union more than the NI Unionists.

The Tories called themselves the unionist party, its a complete joke. A narrow English nationalist cult

 

[Bold Seagull]

17M+ voters cheated. This is not the end, but trust in our politicians is at a BIG FAT ZERO now.

Why don't these politicians just tell the truth, they have no intention of us ever leaving the EU.

33m people voted. 17m advised the government they wanted to leave the EU. They didn't say how, they didn't say they wanted the Irish Border arrangements changed, they didn't say they didn't want a deal. 16m advised the government they wanted to stay in the EU.

Parliament is our sovereign democracy, our constitution. You and others appear to want to ride roughshod over that 400 year principle in order to get what you want - even though what you want was never explicit.

So the government went out to a GE in 2017 for a mandate to enact a leaving of the EU that they believe the 17m wanted, and they failed to secure a majority. The people, your vote and mine split between parties offering hard and soft exits from the EU, some truthfully offering the chance to remain still.

The bare faced lies at the moment, easy to pick up on given they are things that only happened 2 weeks ago but being lied about at the dispatch box is from our PM.

Thank goodness for a sovereign Parliament, something Brexiters banged on about returning all power to from the EU. Almost ridiculous they now throw their toys out of their prams that it is enacting it's democratic purpose.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

It's not simple at all. If you could get agreement that we should have a second vote on Brexit, and there are some very basic reasons why that would be wrong, but if you could start down that path, those same MP's will not agree on what the terms of the vote are. I admire the fact that you would allow no deal to be on the ballet. Well MP's wouldn't allow it. It would be "Soft Brexit" (with terms which would go against the principle things people voted for, i.e. leaving the CU, the SM, the ECJ etc) or Remain, and that is the only vote they would ever allow.

Don't you get it? We are not allowed to leave the EU. We were asked on the basis that we were expected to give the "right answer".

We are not allowed to leave. It's not up to us.

We are allowed to EU, The MPs who have blocked have said they are more than happy to leave with a deal, a deal we have to come up with not this no deal rubbish.

Once again, if it was not for the ERG we would be out of the EU.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

It's not simple at all. If you could get agreement that we should have a second vote on Brexit, and there are some very basic reasons why that would be wrong, but if you could start down that path, those same MP's will not agree on what the terms of the vote are. I admire the fact that you would allow no deal to be on the ballet. Well MP's wouldn't allow it. It would be "Soft Brexit" (with terms which would go against the principle things people voted for, i.e. leaving the CU, the SM, the ECJ etc) or Remain, and that is the only vote they would ever allow.

Don't you get it? We are not allowed to leave the EU. We were asked on the basis that we were expected to give the "right answer".

Here's a little test for you. Ask a number of Leave voters to explain what these terms are yet alone what they mean. And yet they voted for them? Are you sure? Did they vote for all of the them or one or two of them?
Or were they simply motivated by the simplistic and (meaningless) slogan 'take back control'? May's deal was arguably taking back control. Soft Brexit (the same as May's deal in your view??) arguably takes back control. Your position lacks coherence.

 

[Stat Brother]

Does anyone remember 'The Northern Ireland Problem' being raised during the Referendum campaign?

 

[Gwylan]

Whether you believe MPs are dishonestly choosing not to uphold the result, or that it was a question that was simply too complex to just put to the people with a simple Yes/No, this referendum has badly damaged democracy in this country.

Which is precisely why I think Cameron is the worst PM for decades - just that one decision has had terrible consequences

 

[dingodan]

The fact that people like you believe this is a very good reason for not holding over simplistic, badly thought-through plebicites. If we never held one again after this Brexit mess is resolved, it would be 50 billion years too soon.


Whether you believe MPs are dishonestly choosing not to uphold the result, or that it was a question that was simply too complex to just put to the people with a simple Yes/No, this referendum has badly damaged democracy in this country.

It wasn't "too complex". We could have left by now, and any short term shock to the system would have been over with by now and it would be done.

I was a fool for ever believing the vote would be respected.

 

[pb21]

I didn't ask for a dictionary definition of good. I simply wondered what your definition of a good Brexit deal was?

I'll answer your question if you answer mine that I asked first.

If you have no idea what the best possible (good) deal is, how do you know one is possible to come up with in two years, or are you just assuming?

 

[WATFORD zero]

Cheers. You are quite smart, aren't you?

You say the sweetest things

But sadly, no I'm not. It's just a little bit of common sense and thought

 

[dingodan]

Here's a little test for you. Ask a number of Leave voters to explain what these terms are yet alone what they mean. And yet they voted for them? Are you sure? Did they vote for all of the them or one or two of them?
Or were they simply motivated by the simplistic and (meaningless) slogan 'take back control'? May's deal was arguably taking back control. Soft Brexit (the same as May's deal in your view??) arguably takes back control. Your position lacks coherence.

Yeah, we've all heard it. People who didn't vote to leave the EU telling those who did vote to leave why they did, and that they didn't understand what they were voting for.

Well at least some people have representation in Parliament, sadly, it isn't the majority though.

 

[Stat Brother]

It wasn't "too complex". We could have left by now, and any short term shock to the system would have been over with by now and it would be done.

I was a fool for ever believing the vote would be respected.

You were a fool for believing party politics, ego, power grabs and money, wouldn't get between a vote to leave and actually leaving.

 

[beorhthelm]

Excellent - so we'll get our petrol from Russia, and chicken from the US. Whats not to worry about?

we already get some from Russia, as well as other non-EU countries. other than our main indigenous oil industry, a large amount of fuel comes from Norway. this will not change anytime soon without infrastructure to support.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Yeah, we've all heard it. People who didn't vote to leave the EU telling those who did vote to leave why they did, and that they didn't understand what they were voting for.

Well at least some people have representation in Parliament, sadly, it isn't the majority though.

A second unconvincing contribution.

 

[dingodan]

We are allowed to EU, The MPs who have blocked have said they are more than happy to leave with a deal, a deal we have to come up with not this no deal rubbish.

Once again, if it was not for the ERG we would be out of the EU.

Yeah, just not this deal... Or that deal...

...Ok I will be prepared to vote for this deal, [whisper from the bench behind them] "pssst, this one might actually get through"...

Oh wait, no sorry, I just found a reason that this deal is infact unacceptable also...

Such a shame because I really want to support Brexit, promise...

ad infinitum...