[Politics] Brexit

[portslade seagull]

I didn’t say the high street decline was due to Brexit. Our high streets have been in decline for years. However, the uncertainty Brexit is causing is certainly another problem shops are facing. But as I say, certainly not initially caused by Brexit.

Aside from Brexit I believe online shopping activities of whatever nature should be taxed more to help the high street

 

[The Clamp]

Aside from Brexit I believe online shopping activities of whatever nature should be taxed more to help the high street

Nah, the high street is dead. You might be able to breathe a bit of temporary life into it but its only staving off the inevitable. Let it die.

 

[Hampster Gull]

Nah, the high street is dead. You might be able to breathe a bit of temporary life into it but its only staving off the inevitable. Let it die.

It has a place Clamp, blending online and high street. Some businesses do it well. It needs to be about experience, about testing products, about pick up drop off online goods, about community.

 

[The Clamp]

It has a place Clamp, blending online and high street. Some businesses do it well. It needs to be about experience, about testing products, about pick up drop off online goods, about community.

Yes I suppose so.

 

[A1X]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...es-london-office-with-loss-of-900-jobs-brexit

Doesn't really require a comment from me.

"It's not Brexit, it's restructuring"

 

[vegster]

Nah, the high street is dead. You might be able to breathe a bit of temporary life into it but its only staving off the inevitable. Let it die.

Quite often it's Nail Bars, Barbers and Open All hours shops where you can get your Pizza, Pringles, Dorito's, Jacob's Creek and Red Bull and Pepsi.

 

[The Clamp]

Quite often it's Nail Bars, Barbers and Open All hours shops where you can get your Pizza, Pringles, Dorito's, Jacob's Creek and Red Bull and Pepsi.

Don’t forget phone screens, wheelie suitcases and mirrors with Michael Jackson etched on to them.

 

[Baker lite]

BrExit - the countdown to 11PM GMT on Friday 29th of March 2019

I’ve been So stupid, can’t quite believe it, I need to have a HUGE slice of humble pie, all along I haven’t really realised what was written on the ballot paper.
#anothervotenow

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Echo chambers are arguably one of the main reasons why we're in this mess in the first place, I'm afraid.

If only the Guardianista, Hampstead (with minority outposts in Sussex) dinner party set could remove their heads from their posteriors they may have been more aware of the feelings amongst a majority of the UK public. Unfortunately as this thread shows they have learnt F all.

 

[CHAPPERS]

If only the Guardianista, Hampstead (with minority outposts in Sussex) dinner party set could remove their heads from their posteriors they may have been more aware of the feelings amongst a majority of the UK public. Unfortunately as this thread shows they have learnt F all.

The only people itching for an in/out referendum were the right of the Conservatives. Most of the country couldn’t have given two shits about EU membership before Cameron decided he would be the one to wrest control of the party, then along came the liars like Farage and Sacre and sold a pup on the Sovereignty ticket. The people that need blaming for the state of this country are not in Brussels, they are sitting members of the Houses of Parliament.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

The only people itching for an in/out referendum were the right of the Conservatives.

I'm trying to rack my brains and I really can't remember joining the Tory party ..... ever ..... and never will. Yet I've wanted a meaningful say on our membership of the EU for nigh on 30 years. So either I've joined the Tory party without knowing or you're wrong.

 

[cunning fergus]

The only people itching for an in/out referendum were the right of the Conservatives. Most of the country couldn’t have given two shits about EU membership before Cameron decided he would be the one to wrest control of the party, then along came the liars like Farage and Sacre and sold a pup on the Sovereignty ticket. The people that need blaming for the state of this country are not in Brussels, they are sitting members of the Houses of Parliament.

This is not true as it ignores the historical narrative whereby U.K. politicians have teased the public regarding referendums at certain times.

https://www.channel4.com/news/artic...did+blair+promise+euro+referendum/558277.html

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/05/eu-referendum-leaflet-will-haunt-clegg-today

In the last 20-30 years the EU has morphed in influence and in scale, and whilst it was once a matter people have cared little about, that has since passed.

The euro (Maastricht) and closer integration with sovereign state characteristics (Lisbon) have changed this, broadly with Parliament’s support. However they can’t control events so we can see the euro crisis and misery that has inflicted on some EU countries which has created movements of EU citizens augmented with an entirely predictable consequence of people from poorer EU countries migrating to richer ones.

In short we didn’t get only 15,000 polish plumbers when the A8 countries joined.

I think that one gripe remainers have about leave is that leavers we’re voting about the EU as a institution, I don’t think that is right. It has been U.K. politicians of all flavours that have lied about the EU and evaded the truth of its influence. Voting leave was a **** off delivered by the poor and powerless.

The state of Brexit now is just another circle on the tree in their deception of the poor and powerless and hence leave won’t mean leave, it will mean remain.

 

[cunning fergus]

Businesses must do what is right for their shareholders - that is their affair. What is unforgiveable is when a government by their own actions on Brexit moves the goalposts such that it is almost inevitable business will relocate and jobs will be lost to the detriment of the UK economy.

By being in the EU jobs have been lost, the Ford example is unforgivable as the EIB loaned millions to ford to build is mega factory in Turkey.

We are entirely consistent in our belief that Govts do what is best for their respective electorate. You believe it’s best delivered by membership of the EU and I don’t. By the way I don’t because the EU is a mechanism that broadly suits the interests of shareholders.

An ironic point given your statement, but shareholders won’t be supporters of socialism or some of it’s key principles.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

There's no point in telling people about the *no deal* on-coming storm anymore. It'll happen for sure now. Troops on the streets, Civil Contingencies Act. The end of democracy for a while.

Just buy up as much tinned food, pasta, and fuel as you can now. I hope our children will come out the other side and fix this country for their descendents.

We've been conned. Sadly it is easier to fool someone than to convince someone they have been fooled.


Also, if you only ever read one more book, please read Alternative War by James Patrick. Putin has defeated us, and we never even knew he'd started the war.


https://twitter.com/J_amesp/status/1089452174520844288?s=19

 

[pb21]

By being in the EU jobs have been lost, the Ford example is unforgivable as the EIB loaned millions to ford to build is mega factory in Turkey.

We are entirely consistent in our belief that Govts do what is best for their respective electorate. You believe it’s best delivered by membership of the EU and I don’t. By the way I don’t because the EU is a mechanism that broadly suits the interests of shareholders.

An ironic point given your statement, but shareholders won’t be supporters of socialism or some of it’s key principles.

The EIB is not the EU.

Regardless what is the net difference in the number of jobs available in the UK as we currently stand, compared to if we had never been part of the EU, or its predecessors?

 

[cunning fergus]

Well you haven't done a very good job of it then. You posted a poll that showed the AB social group voting remain (27% of the population) but nothing about the rich and powerful so far.

Once again, as always, you've posted ANOTHER disingenuous article that doesn't prove your point in any way whatsoever. Nobody is arguing against you that the poor largely voted leave, but that is NOT the same thing as saying the rich and powerful voted remain because a) the poor do not make up everybody else except the rich and powerful and b) we are all aware of some very public members of the rich and powerful who did vote leave.

So addressing your point about the poor and their voting - my suspicion is that in 2016, what actually happened is that the poor were offered a choice: for or against the status quo. But if you're without a job or finding that even your very badly paying job is under threat from East Europeans undercutting you, why wouldn't you vote against the status quo? But I don't think leaving the EU is going to help them at all - and that their interests would be better served voting for a less selfish social outlook in terms of distribution of income, more housing and better workers rights - none of which will happen all the time class-warriors like yourself do their best to oust left-of-centre but not-socialist voters from positions of influence in the Labour party, because as we have seen time and time again Labour will never get into government on a socialist ticket.

Ok, so do you honestly think more rich and influential voted leave than remain?

Let’s take the following key examples (by my measure):

MPs and Lords
CEO (and boards) of FTSE 350 companies
CEOs of various institutions that support the city
CBI and IOD
Unions, TUC, Unite etc*
NUS
Labour Party membership
Tory Party membership*
Masons/Rotary
BMA & RCN
BBC/media
National Trust*
Charities

I think there are cases to be made for the memberships/hierarchies of those referenced * to having a greater balance of leave over remain, I don’t think they would have been by the way, however there is no evidence to suggest that those heading or sitting in the institutions above overwhelmingly voted leave. They are social class AB.

Before you go on about landed Tories the TP has a membership of less than 250k and as we can see there are committed remainers amongst them as well as leavers, it was not the “Tories” that won it.

You may well be right that a socialist party may not get in power, but that does not make my ideology wrong, with each economic crisis rooted in avaricious capitalism, with each price rise on the trains, gas, electricity, etc. with each case of murky global business/politics (Davos, Bilderbergs, G20) hiding intentions from their electorates, the more the case for responsible socialism increases.

 

[cunning fergus]

The EIB is not the EU.

Regardless what is the net difference in the number of jobs available in the UK as we currently stand, compared to if we had never been part of the EU, or its predecessors?

No it’s not it’s the investment bank created by the EU to raise money off global markets, leveraging the combined credit ratings from EU member states to (in theory) raise money cheaply.

Who do you think is on the hook for failed debt/repayments?

I will give you a clue, it’s the same people who lost their jobs when Ford shut their factories down in the U.K. Belgium, France and Germany.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

https://twitter.com/uk_domain_names/status/1089454796715814912?s=19

Exactly. We're shagged.

Cheers, Vladimir.



https://twitter.com/J_amesp/status/1089454824075202560?s=19

 

[cunning fergus]

'Based on what we know now' (which is. in one or two cases, not very much - but no name, no pack drill) there is no realistic prospect of a 'federal Europe'. Hence we stay in on more or less the current basis and continue to enjoy the benefits of the largest trading bloc in the world. Simples.

What is more simple to understand is that there are deep structural problems that persist with the euro, fiscal integration is required to make it crisis proof. I would agree their are difficulties with that at the moment politically, but that does not mean the objective of the EU is not full fiscal integration.

If it’s not then the EU and the economists/politicians signing up to it are well, profoundly stupid and we must leave the EU at the earliest opportunity.

But they are not stupid, the euro was a mechanism in itself to force full fiscal union, in order to deliver the federal state you say there is no realistic chance of.

So, either the EU is stupid (which we know they are not as referenced above) or those that say a federal EU is not going to happen are?

Simples.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

The arguments no longer matter.

*No deal* is happening. Just stock up as best you can and hope to come out the other side.