[Politics] Brexit

[beorhthelm]

I think I agree with you, broadly speaking. Class is something I've struggled with for a while. I was definitely born into a working class family yet now, if we're going by things such as salary and home ownership, I'm distinctly middle class. Yet I still very much identify as a working class boy. Other people I've spoken to, friends from my childhood feel much the same way. It's a strange one.

I did read a really interesting book that you may also enjoy: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Social-Class-Century-Pelican-Books/dp/0241004225

Written in collaboration with the team behind the Great British Class Survey.

it is strange, we're fixated by class to the point of denial of where we are, focusing on past rather than present. too often to justify political ideals rather than reflect reality, such as the landlords or journalists who self identify as "working class". fact is most "working class" are nothing of the sort by historical measures. we should align more with the social grades and accept that there's far more prospects for changing group than some would like (usual those that want to insist there isnt much social mobility).

 

[Thunder Bolt]

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[BBassic]

it is strange, we're fixated by class to the point of denial of where we are, focusing on past rather than present. too often to justify political ideals rather than reflect reality, such as the landlords or journalists who self identify as "working class". fact is most "working class" are nothing of the sort by historical measures. we should align more with the social grades and accept that there's far more prospects for changing group than some would like (usual those that want to insist there isnt much social mobility).

Yeah agree with that too. It's why that book resonated with me; 'class' is no longer just a three tiered 2-dimensional construct. It's way more complicated than that now. The author himself describes it really well in an interview answer:

Those old terms, middle class and working class, really hark back to an industrial society. The categories then were concerned with the divisions between manual occupations (working class) and non-manual occupations (middle class or lower middle class). And the assumption was that your occupation was the key defining feature of your class.

And I think that way of thinking about class has become a bit outdated. This is partly because industrial and factory work has declined, so there are fewer classical working-class people in those terms. But also because there is an increasing range of factors that influence your situation in life. So, it’s not just the money you earn from your job, it also includes your inheritance, the money in your home, your savings, and also your education and qualifications.

The way we think about class is multi-dimensional. It takes a number of different aspects that influence your life chances. We don’t assume that the old occupational divisions are the prime ones.

 

[Simster]

Im not confusing class and social grades, i am merely correcting assertions made on here that the rich and influential were behind Brexit.

Some rich and influential were i am not denying that, but the FACTS are that it was the poor and powerless that overwhelmingly supported leave.

Over 7,000 pages of discussion on here and some are still confused about who voted leave.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/25/london-separate-city-state-leave-voters-class

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ain-brexit-money-class-inequality-westminster

We need to accept this reality, understand whose side we are on. For remainers i suggest an view on how the poor and powerless will benefit from more EU....mostly so far its threats.

Well you haven't done a very good job of it then. You posted a poll that showed the AB social group voting remain (27% of the population) but nothing about the rich and powerful so far.

Once again, as always, you've posted ANOTHER disingenuous article that doesn't prove your point in any way whatsoever. Nobody is arguing against you that the poor largely voted leave, but that is NOT the same thing as saying the rich and powerful voted remain because a) the poor do not make up everybody else except the rich and powerful and b) we are all aware of some very public members of the rich and powerful who did vote leave.

So addressing your point about the poor and their voting - my suspicion is that in 2016, what actually happened is that the poor were offered a choice: for or against the status quo. But if you're without a job or finding that even your very badly paying job is under threat from East Europeans undercutting you, why wouldn't you vote against the status quo? But I don't think leaving the EU is going to help them at all - and that their interests would be better served voting for a less selfish social outlook in terms of distribution of income, more housing and better workers rights - none of which will happen all the time class-warriors like yourself do their best to oust left-of-centre but not-socialist voters from positions of influence in the Labour party, because as we have seen time and time again Labour will never get into government on a socialist ticket.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Back in 1999 the debate about the euro was in full swing, big business interests were lamenting that being out the euro would damage their business, many sage economists, media types and earnest politicians told us that joining was in our economic interests.

https://www.theengineer.co.uk/inspiration/join-euro-or-get-left-behind-unilever-boss-warns-cbi/

Like the Herbert from Airbus yesterday, big business waves around the sword of Damocles on workers jobs, and broadly speaking the pro EU constituency use these missives to support their arguments that being in the EU is vital. This is Groundhog Day on the euro debate.

This debate about joining the euro is merely dormant, not dead in the ground. You are pro EU, where do you stand on joining the euro and fully embracing the bloc you are so enthusiastic that we remain in.......or are you a soft remainer and want the U.K. to remain independent?

I don't see the need for the UK to join the Euro and I don't see that by not doing so makes one jot of difference.

The strength and integrity of the European Union lies not in a common currency but in the Single Market, the global influence that brings in trade but also 28 like-minded liberal democracies working together for social justice, human rights, worker's rights and environmental protection, i.e. a bastion against the likes of Russia, China and the USA that aren't fussed by this stuff.

 

[Pavilionaire]

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Just staggering - this guy has been writing for the right-wing press for years and - by his own admission - he hasn't got a f*cking clue what he's talking about when it comes to Brexit.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

If you're on Twitter and want to read some great humourous comments, read this thread.

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[Pavilionaire]

By the way, I won’t bother posting the link but Ford closed a number of factories in the U.K. and EU to move production of vehicles like the transit to Turkey (a factory funded by the EIB). Thousands of jobs lost in the EU to the benefit of non EU workers.

I don’t recall the tears of lamentation then?

Businesses must do what is right for their shareholders - that is their affair. What is unforgiveable is when a government by their own actions on Brexit moves the goalposts such that it is almost inevitable business will relocate and jobs will be lost to the detriment of the UK economy.

 

[The Clamp]

The problem with Brexit is nobody is willing to admit it’s wrong and nobody in power has the balls to stop it.

This time next year we will all be looking back wondering how on Earth we let ourselves sleep walk into such a disaster.

 

[A1X]

The problem with Brexit is nobody is willing to admit it’s wrong and nobody in power has the balls to stop it.

This time next year we will all be looking back wondering how on Earth we let ourselves sleep walk into such a disaster.

Meanwhile those who ultimately were responsible will have legged it to their tax havens, flicking the V's at us plebs as they do.

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

Good stuff, what are the advantages for the U.k in a federal EU?

'Based on what we know now' (which is. in one or two cases, not very much - but no name, no pack drill) there is no realistic prospect of a 'federal Europe'. Hence we stay in on more or less the current basis and continue to enjoy the benefits of the largest trading bloc in the world. Simples.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

The problem with Brexit is nobody is willing to admit it’s wrong and nobody in power has the balls to stop it.

This time next year we will all be looking back wondering how on Earth we let ourselves sleep walk into such a disaster.

It's almost like a religion. Don't you (not you personally) dare criticise my opinion, and even when you try to point out the truth, the other person just doesn't want to know.

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[Kinky Gerbil]

Mark Francois on BBC just now accused Airbus's Tom Enders of "Teutonic arrogance", adding: "My father, Reginald Francois, was a D-Day veteran. He never submitted to bullying by any German. Neither will his son. So if Mr Enders is watching, that's what he can do with his letter"




FML They are complete CLOWNS

This has to be one of the single most retarded things I have seen/read.

May is being held hostage by these people

 

[The Clamp]

It's almost like a religion. Don't you (not you personally) dare criticise my opinion, and even when you try to point out the truth, the other person just doesn't want to know.

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They are either shutting their eyes and hoping it all goes away or just arguing nonsense.

 

[The Clamp]

Mark Francois on BBC just now accused Airbus's Tom Enders of "Teutonic arrogance", adding: "My father, Reginald Francois, was a D-Day veteran. He never submitted to bullying by any German. Neither will his son. So if Mr Enders is watching, that's what he can do with his letter"


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FML They are complete CLOWNS

This has to be one of the single most retarded things I have seen/read.

May is being held hostage by these people

May needs to grow a spine and call this bloody thing off. Now.

 

[ManOfSussex]

Mark Francois on BBC just now accused Airbus's Tom Enders of "Teutonic arrogance", adding: "My father, Reginald Francois, was a D-Day veteran. He never submitted to bullying by any German. Neither will his son. So if Mr Enders is watching, that's what he can do with his letter"

FML They are complete CLOWNS

This has to be one of the single most retarded things I have seen/read.

May is being held hostage by these people

At least he's showing his true colours coming out with **** like that. 80 years on and people like him who were born 20 years after it ended cannot get over the legacy of and their obsession with World War 2 and the loss of empire. It's pathetic and embarrassing.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

At least he's showing his true colours coming out with **** like that. 80 years on and people like him who were born 20 years after it ended cannot get over the legacy of and their obsession with World War 2 and the loss of empire. It's pathetic and embarrassing.

Going to see it more and more - JRM wants to close parliament and this today.

DD's bribe from JCB coming out

Dyson fleeing the country

 

[Garry Nelson's teacher]

At least he's showing his true colours coming out with **** like that. 80 years on and people like him who were born 20 years after it ended cannot get over the legacy of and their obsession with World War 2 and the loss of empire. It's pathetic and embarrassing.

Totally agree. That's a mighty cheap shot by the MP. Suspect his dad would be ashamed of him.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

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[Deleted member 22389]

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