Kane?

[hans kraay fan club]

How unbalanced is your assessment of CMS!? Shocking. Yes, of course, if you compare him, or any other Championship striker for that matter, to Defoe, then he comes out 2nd best. But he WAS our top scorer last season (playing about 20 games), and deserves some respect from his club's alleged supporters.

Right.

1. I'm not comparing him to Defoe. Someone else suggested Defoe.

2. I actually DO rate CMS as a decent Championship striker. For the right team / system. Which is not us. I'm saying that CMS up front in OUR system (with one up front) would be hopeless. It would work less well than with Barnes there, and far less than with Ulloa.

I'll be very happy to see you back on the bench though, as he would offer something of a plan B.

3. I've every respect for him. Show me where I've shown him any lack of respect? And if you want to play pathetic nonsense, questionning people's levels of support, you can do one.

 

[Simster]

Barnes! Yeah, right.

Barnes is not as quick and doesn't cover as much ground, but his position sense is better and he is like an ox when holding the ball up compared to CMS. CMS and Barnes have very different strengths. Neither player is anywhere near as good as Ulloa and so they are playing for the second striker position these days. And when Oscar wants to play two up front, I do think Barnes is the player he is going to go with, because his strengths compliment Ulloa so much better than CMS.

 

[B.W.]

Yes, Barnes.

So you think Barnes playing off of Ulloa is better than CMS doing so! OK. Fair enough. I disagree.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

So you think Barnes playing off of Ulloa is better than CMS doing so! OK. Fair enough. I disagree.

I agree with you to an extent on that. IF oscar chose to play 442, with two proper strikers, THEN there would absolutely be a case for CMS alongside Ulloa. He won't though, and in the event of just one up front, the choice is undoubtably Leo >>>>> Barnes >>>> CMS.

 

[Biscuit]

Right.

1. I'm not comparing him to Defoe. Someone else suggested Defoe.

2. I actually DO rate CMS as a decent Championship striker. For the right team / system. Which is not us. I'm saying that CMS up front in OUR system (with one up front) would be hopeless. It would work less well than with Barnes there, and far less than with Ulloa.

I'll be very happy to see you back on the bench though, as he would offer something of a plan B.

3. I've every respect for him. Show me where I've shown him any lack of respect? And if you want to play pathetic nonsense, questionning people's levels of support, you can do one.

Obviously Ulloa upfront is the key, and he is very much our 'Plan A'. That being said, the way we played in the second half against Bolton would be perfect for CMS. Balls behind the defensive line for him to run onto - he did it time and time again for Peterborough. It's another option and I can see CMS scoring plenty when he's back from injury and back to match fitness. The Oscar approach will suit him much more than Poyet's football.

 

[B.W.]

Right.

1. I'm not comparing him to Defoe. Someone else suggested Defoe.

2. I actually DO rate CMS as a decent Championship striker. For the right team / system. Which is not us. I'm saying that CMS up front in OUR system (with one up front) would be hopeless. It would work less well than with Barnes there, and far less than with Ulloa.

I'll be very happy to see you back on the bench though, as he would offer something of a plan B.

3. I've every respect for him. Show me where I've shown him any lack of respect? And if you want to play pathetic nonsense, questionning people's levels of support, you can do one.

Actually, I agree with you that Barnes is better than CMS as a single striker, but that is not what I was saying, as you well know, so...


... I suggest you read my posts more carefully and/or don't deliberately misconstrue what I am saying.

 

[B.W.]

Barnes is not as quick and doesn't cover as much ground, but his position sense is better and he is like an ox when holding the ball up compared to CMS. CMS and Barnes have very different strengths. Neither player is anywhere near as good as Ulloa and so they are playing for the second striker position these days. And when Oscar wants to play two up front, I do think Barnes is the player he is going to go with, because his strengths compliment Ulloa so much better than CMS.

I disagree. Barnes as backup replacement to Ulloa, yes. 2nd striker; that has to be CMS, precisely because of his strengths as compared to Barnes.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Actually, I agree with you that Barnes is better than CMS as a single striker, but that is not what I was saying, as you well know, so...


... I suggest you read my posts more carefully and/or don't deliberately misconstrue what I am saying.

WTF.

I suggest you read the thread back through, petal.

 

[B.W.]

I agree with you to an extent on that. IF oscar chose to play 442, with two proper strikers, THEN there would absolutely be a case for CMS alongside Ulloa. He won't though, and in the event of just one up front, the choice is undoubtably Leo >>>>> Barnes >>>> CMS.

LoL! I think we are violently agreeing, although I think you may find Oscar being more flexible than you expect with playing 2 upfront.

 

[B.W.]

Obviously Ulloa upfront is the key, and he is very much our 'Plan A'. That being said, the way we played in the second half against Bolton would be perfect for CMS. Balls behind the defensive line for him to run onto - he did it time and time again for Peterborough. It's another option and I can see CMS scoring plenty when he's back from injury and back to match fitness. The Oscar approach will suit him much more than Poyet's football.

This.

 

[Postman Pat]

I agree with you to an extent on that. IF oscar chose to play 442, with two proper strikers, THEN there would absolutely be a case for CMS alongside Ulloa. He won't though, and in the event of just one up front, the choice is undoubtably Leo >>>>> Barnes >>>> CMS.

Do we know this for sure? He hasn't had 2 strikers to pick all season, how can anyone guarantee he won't go 2 up top when we have them?

Not disagreeing with you, just seems that a lot of people are really sure what formation Oscar is going to play even though he has not really had a full squad to select from.

I agree if it is one up top, then Leo is better in that role than anyone in the club, and not many (if any) better in the league.

 

[BensGrandad]

HKFC you have misconstrued what I have said. I am not suggesting that CMS will play wide but as in old fashioned terms the inside right or left formation not with 2 strikers but Ulloa to win the ball to knockdown or forward to an on going CMS whose speed will take him past defenders into the box. I think that under Oscars system he will be a revelation as he was at Peterbro who played him not as a main striker but a support coming from deeper. Then we shall see why we paid so much money for him.

 

[B.W.]

WTF.

I suggest you read the thread back through, petal.

I don't need to. You had an unnecessary dig at CMS, for example:

"CMS might, as Bens Grandad suggests, get a game or two in place of Buckley / Lua lua in one of the wide roles. He is really not a good enough player to convince Oscar to completely re-draw his philosophy and system. Never going to happen.

And even if it ever did, Barnes would be better..."

 

[B.W.]

HKFC you have misconstrued what I have said. I am not suggesting that CMS will play wide but as in old fashioned terms the inside right or left formation not with 2 strikers but Ulloa to win the ball to knockdown or forward to an on going CMS whose speed will take him past defenders into the box. I think that under Oscars system he will be a revelation as he was at Peterbro who played him not as a main striker but a support coming from deeper. Then we shall see why we paid so much money for him.

I agree with this BG. HKFC misconstruing again! ;-)

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Do we know this for sure? He hasn't had 2 strikers to pick all season, how can anyone guarantee he won't go 2 up top when we have them?

Not disagreeing with you, just seems that a lot of people are really sure what formation Oscar is going to play even though he has not really had a full squad to select from.
.

All the reports from the Maccabi Tel Aviv fans and the Spanish media are that he is very comfortagble and very committed to his philosophy, of 433.
I can't see him changing it, except late in a game as a reaction - when a gamble is required.

HKFC you have misconstrued what I have said. I am not suggesting that CMS will play wide but as in old fashioned terms the inside right or left formation not with 2 strikers but Ulloa to win the ball to knockdown or forward to an on going CMS whose speed will take him past defenders into the box. I think that under Oscars system he will be a revelation as he was at Peterbro who played him not as a main striker but a support coming from deeper. Then we shall see why we paid so much money for him.

Minor details BG. This discussion was about whether CMS' talents suited our current style. Whether they suit some theoretical style that we don't play isn't so relevant. As far as I can see, once CMS is fit his role will be:

1. A bit of pace / different option, from the bench.
2. Play as one of the 2 wide(r) players, in rotation with KLL, Buckley and Conway
3. Play as the striker as a last resort, if Leo and Barnes are out.

he'll be very useful as option 1, and I look forward to it. Not convinced of he is better than the alternatives, as options 2 or 3.

 

[SockMonster]

I don't need to. You had an unnecessary dig at CMS, for example:

"CMS might, as Bens Grandad suggests, get a game or two in place of Buckley / Lua lua in one of the wide roles. He is really not a good enough player to convince Oscar to completely re-draw his philosophy and system. Never going to happen.

And even if it ever did, Barnes would be better..."

Surely all three are different types of players. Ulloa is classic hold it up striker with decent control and an eye for goal, CMS is more about pace and getting in behind defenders and also has a good eye for a goal and Barnes is crap.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

HKFC you have misconstrued what I have said. I am not suggesting that CMS will play wide but as in old fashioned terms the inside right or left formation not with 2 strikers but Ulloa to win the ball to knockdown or forward to an on going CMS whose speed will take him past defenders into the box. I think that under Oscars system he will be a revelation as he was at Peterbro who played him not as a main striker but a support coming from deeper. Then we shall see why we paid so much money for him.

One of CMS's biggest assets is his speed, but we don't know if he will still have that pace when he is fully fit again. It was a very nasty injury which at his age may affect him.

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Surely all three are different types of players. ...... and Barnes is crap.

Ah, so you don't go to games then. Got you. I'll remember to ignore your opinions.

 

[vulture]

Just a name I heard from someone who said that he was in talks with us. I never got a second name. The name meant nothing to me.

Total bull shit . You read the papers for rumours then post on here. What a sad little man.

 

[BensGrandad]

All the reports from the Maccabi Tel Aviv fans and the Spanish media are that he is very comfortagble and very committed to his philosophy, of 433.
I can't see him changing it, except late in a game as a reaction - when a gamble is required.



Minor details BG. This discussion was about whether CMS' talents suited our current style. Whether they suit some theoretical style that we don't play isn't so relevant. As far as I can see, once CMS is fit his role will be:

1. A bit of pace / different option, from the bench.
2. Play as one of the 2 wide(r) players, in rotation with KLL, Buckley and Conway
3. Play as the striker as a last resort, if Leo and Barnes are out.

he'll be very useful as option 1, and I look forward to it. Not convinced of he is better than the alternatives, as options 2 or 3.

Dont agree at all. Nobody is expecting or wanting Oscar to change his philosophy and ideals. What I am saying is play CMS in a 4-3-3 formation either left or right of Ulloa and Ulloa knock the balls into the space goal side of the defenders or behind them for CMS to then grab and run at the defence which he is very good at, his speed will either take him past the defenders into the area for a shot on goal or to get a cross into Ulloa again.