[News] Greta Thunberg and the boat

[NorthstandRacoon]

Bozza has literally just locked a thread on the topic of the role of Israel in the conflict in Gaza and here you are trying to stir it up on yet another unrelated thread and not for the first time.

Yes it’s deliberately trolling to pursue the same poster for months on end with this same question across multiple threads.. Especially as the original thread is now deleted so people cant fact check the original context of my comment and what you are trying to turn it into (accusing me of what exactly? Supporting genocide?!).

You know I am Jewish and you know I voted Labour, stop trying to make that into something it is not.


FOR THE LAST TIME

I have NEVER said on ANY thread that Israel has a ‘right to defend itself’ as a justification for the disproportionate and devastating attacks on Gaza which has been obvious to everyone reading my posts over the past few years.

Of course Israel has a right to defend itself IN PRINCIPLE like every other sovereign state under attack (as do the people of Gaza) but I have said until I am blue in the face that imo what is going on in Gaza is not ‘defence’ and completely disproportionate and arguably genocide.

No I do not believe in leaving Israel completely incapable of defending itself any more than any nation which it would be if the UK and US stopped ALL military exports/materials including the iron dome and early warning technology:


I do not agree with what Israel is doing to the civilian population in Gaza - it’s horrific as were the deaths on 7/10/23 so stop playing your silly games and behaving as this was an inquisitorial trial conducted by first graders trying to ’catch me out’.

Sorry if you can’t accept that I voted for a party that dragged its heels over Gaza but I did NOT as you well know.

End off.

It's not arguably, it IS genocide. Have the people of Israel not learnt after what happened to their relatives 80 something years ago by Hitler, apparently not!!!

The fact there's not much uproar from the citizens of Israel says it all really. Shocking.

This has made my blood boil no end. Imagine what the those who saw genocide WWII would be thinking about this. Where is the outcry from the Jewish communities? Because I've barely seen much.

Don't get me started on stopping aid, with citizens of Israel also helping by stopping lorries and bursting tyres etc.

 

[vegster]

It's not arguably, it IS genocide. Have the people of Israel not learnt after what happened to their relatives 80 something years ago by Hitler, apparently not!!!

The fact there's not much uproar from the citizens of Israel says it all really. Shocking.

This has made my blood boil no end. Imagine what the those who saw genocide WWII would be thinking about this. Where is the outcry from the Jewish communities? Because I've barely seen much.

Don't get me started on stopping aid, with citizens of Israel also helping by stopping lorries and bursting tyres etc.

Bear in mind the people in Israel would have had their own versions of The Daily Mail and The Express feeding them issues to get angry about for years.

 

[NorthstandRacoon]

Bear in mind the people in Israel would have had their own versions of The Daily Mail and The Express feeding them issues to get angry about for years.

Yes, of course. But they seem very entitled at the minute.

 

[Zeberdi]

It's not arguably, it IS genocide.

“Arguably” because there are still those that argue against the case for genocide.

FYI - When I say ‘arguably’ I wasn’t referring to my own opinion on what’s happening (because you and I agree on that) but rather because ‘genocide’ is a legal definition of a specific war crime - the judgment of which lies with the International Court of Justice and the US and Israel argue to the contrary. The Trump administration even going so far as to punish any US citizens by Executive Order who dare call the US and Israel to be accountable for genocide.

Yes, all the evidence points to ethnic cleansing and deliberate genocide (as I frequently highlighted several years ago very early on the Gaza thread soon after the first ground invasion into Gaza)

However, the labelling of something what it is, isn’t always enough to stop it. The ‘wilful ignorance’ of Israel’s supporters has made any informal accusations of genocide impotent.

The International Criminal Court has yet to rule - it’s a legal process that can take years. They did however make a number of interim judgments in the case brought by South Africa against Israel for genocide but failed to go so far as to demand Israel immediately halt operations’ in Gaza.

What is South Africa’s genocide case against Israel at the ICJ?

The International Court of Justice is considering whether Israel is committing genocide in Gaza.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[hans kraay fan club]

Did it achieve anything that the world didn’t already know? How about arranging some proper aid and help for the people that are suffering.

Have you been living under a rock?

”How about arranging some proper aid?”

With their standard disregard of international law, Israel are not allowing ‘proper aid’ in. That is the whole point of the protest.

So when you ask “Did it achieve anything the world didn’t already know?” - well in your case, it seems yes.

 

[Greenbag50]

My old Gran, bless her soul born in 1914, once said there are 2 things not to be talked about in public;
Politics and Religion.
This thread is the reason why.
I know I’ve posted a few things that folks disagree with and mostly (as in Brighton are lefty) disagree with. But we all have an opinion and none are wrong.
You may disagree, and I think my old Gran was right. So I’m going to stick to football on NSC as, posting your opinion on this forum, won’t change anyone’s mind, anywhere.
If you want to go into politics, run for Parliament.

Roll on season start!

 

[Mental Lental]

we all have an opinion and none are wrong.

That’s bollocks.

 

[BadFish]

My old Gran, bless her soul born in 1914, once said there are 2 things not to be talked about in public;
Politics and Religion.
This thread is the reason why.

Wow, this thread has been around longer than I thought. What is her user name?

Did she say anything about UK band World cups? That thread seems to be upsetting folk too.

 

[Zeberdi]

Wow, this thread has been around longer than I thought. What is her user name?

Did she say anything about UK band World cups? That thread seems to be upsetting folk too.

As did the long running Gaza thread that @Greenbag50 started (presumably to discuss politics) and which was subsequently shut down. Good advice though for those who didn’t already know you can’t win the internet!

 

[BadFish]

As did the long running Gaza thread that @Greenbag50 started (presumably to discuss politics) and which was subsequently shut down. Good advice though for those who didn’t already know you can’t win the internet!

I disagree with the idea that no one's mind is changed on here. I find myself changing my mind on occasion and often understanding a different point of view more clearly. It is interesting to see how data can be interpreted differently.

I also agree with three bags Nana though and don't like to discuss religion on politics in social situations. However I think this is a great forum for it with a lot of clued up people who can challenge your views (if you are open to that).

 

[Zeberdi]

I disagree with the idea that no one's mind is changed on here. I find myself changing my mind on occasion and often understanding a different point of view more clearly. It is interesting to see how data can be interpreted differently.

I also agree with three bags Nana though and don't like to discuss religion on politics in social situations. However I think this is a great forum for it with a lot of clued up people who can challenge your views (if you are open to that).

I disagree

I’ve been posting POVs on the long-running Gaza thread and others on the same topic since 2023 - I don’t think I’ve changed anyone’s mind about anything. . Internet discussions are largely echo chambers frankly (imo!) - Nothing wrong with that, people need to vent. Nothing wrong either with challenging people’s views or trying to get yours across but the way that is done on social media sometimes is confrontational and judgmental which destroys friendly debate.

 

[BadFish]

I disagree

I’ve been posting POVs on the long-running Gaza thread and others on the same topic since 2023 - I don’t think I’ve changed anyone’s mind about anything. . Internet discussions are largely echo chambers frankly (imo!) - Nothing wrong with that, people need to vent. Nothing wrong either with challenging people’s views or trying to get yours across but the way that is done on social media sometimes is confrontational and judgmental which destroys friendly debate

Maybe 'changing my mind' is the wrong phrase, but I have learned a lot of NSC and enjoy reading alternative views on subjects. Your posts on the Israel/Gaza thread were very informative, for example.

Other posters also provide good information on a range of subjects. I don't really expect friendly debate and don't feel its necessary to learn about inverse viewpoints. Nothing wrong with a bit of plain speaking and piss taking.

 

[Zeberdi]

Maybe 'changing my mind' is the wrong phrase, but I have learned a lot of NSC and enjoy reading alternative views on subjects. Your posts on the Israel/Gaza thread were very informative, for example.

Other posters also provide good information on a range of subjects. I don't really expect friendly debate and don't feel its necessary to learn about inverse viewpoints. Nothing wrong with a bit of plain speaking and piss taking.

Tbh I think you took my first post too seriously - I was pointing out the irony of Greenbag saying he didn’t think NSC was the place for political discussions when he started one of the longest (and most contentious!) political threads I have participated in on NSC!

I also used a laughing emoji when saying ‘I disagree with you’ which maybe you missed. (maybe a wink would have been better?)

Glad your experience of NSC is a good one -

Have a good evening.

I need to get on with work!

 

[Greenbag50]

As did the long running Gaza thread that @Greenbag50 started (presumably to discuss politics) and which was subsequently shut down. Good advice though for those who didn’t already know you can’t win the internet!

The original intent of the thread was to discuss the awful events of the October 06th….
Got derailed massively (as these threads tend to do) and the name of the thread was changed as well from my OP.
So, I’m out