[News] Gender and biological sex

[BadFish]

Science famously has a very difficult time with psychology as the human mind is so complex, subjective and difficult to measure.

You can cherry pick certain studies which support your personal opinion - and those with the opposite views can do the same with theirs - and you'll both get absolutely nowhere, except red in the face.

People should just accept that some people feel like being another gender - and there are people that believe there is something wrong with wanting to be another gender.

Ultimately we should just accept the conflicting views and move on from the matter, as there's a good chance there will not be concrete evidence to support either position in our life times.

Science is hard so we shouldn't bother?

I will leave you with this opinion as I couldn't agree more and am so thankful that scientists have disagreed with it throughout history.

 

[Mustafa II]

Science is hard so we shouldn't bother?

I will leave you with this opinion as I couldn't agree more and am so thankful that scientists have disagreed with it throughout history.

I'm not saying that - science will continue to try to understand the world - but cherry picking scientific studies to support your political view about a relatively new cultural problem, will only be divisive and probably unhelpful.

 

[Commander]

Never ever ever will I ever understand why this stuff is such a big issue in today’s world. I mean, apart from a tiny tiny percentage of society, who cares? This debate should be so far down the scale on the things that matter in this country, and yet is seems to constantly be at the forefront of the news, and seems to ignite such strong opinions in people. It’s bizarre.

 

[Mustafa II]

Never ever ever will I ever understand why this stuff is such a big issue in today’s world. I mean, apart from a tiny tiny percentage of society, who cares? This debate should be so far down the scale on the things that matter in this country, and yet is seems to constantly be at the forefront of the news, and seems to ignite such strong opinions in people. It’s bizarre.

It's very divisive, where the opposing sides are very vocal, with both sides making compelling arguments. This is exacerbated as the wellbeing of women and children can be affected by political decisions made.

Contrary to @BadFish, there is no right answer as it's a cultural problem rather than a scientific one. So it's going to be both sides screaming at each other for some time, I fear.

 

[BadFish]

I'm not saying that - science will continue to try to understand the world - but cherry picking scientific studies to support your political view about a relatively new cultural problem, will only be divisive and probably unhelpful.

So here is what actually happened if I wasn't clear about it earlier.

1. I watched a video with a science communicator (or whatever they describe themselves as) giving what sounded like a clear and well executed explanation of the science gender dysphoria.

2. A part of it didn't fit with my current understanding and interested me. I wondered how settled the science was on that aspect (that gender identity is innate).

3. So I asked a few questions and did a bit of research, which I am still doing as I am not satisfied that I have answered my question.

How you can see this as cherry picking scientific studies to support my political* view is beyond me.

*for me this issue is far more damaged by people seeing it as political than scientific.

 

[Motogull]

*for me this issue is far more damaged by people seeing it as political than scientific.

Politics and religion will continue to fill the gaps that science cannot (yet) explain. Be patient fella.

 

[BadFish]

I delved into the youtube comments to ask for further information about gender identity. I was pointed to this video. I haven't watched it yet so have no idea if it supports my political/personal opinions .

 

[Curious Orange]

Never ever ever will I ever understand why this stuff is such a big issue in today’s world. I mean, apart from a tiny tiny percentage of society, who cares? This debate should be so far down the scale on the things that matter in this country, and yet is seems to constantly be at the forefront of the news, and seems to ignite such strong opinions in people. It’s bizarre.

Frankly I would have thought that sterilising, mutilating, and permanently medicalising minors, as promoted by WPATH, would have been more of a scandal than it currently is.

 

[BadFish]

Politics and religion will continue to fill the gaps that science cannot (yet) explain. Be patient fella.

Thanks, I guess while we live in a climate of science denial. People are going to deny it. It's very sad though.

 

[Motogull]

Thanks, I guess while we live in a climate of science denial. People are going to deny it. It's very sad though.

People will still deny science if it suits them. That is even worse.

Chin up!

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Never ever ever will I ever understand why this stuff is such a big issue in today’s world. I mean, apart from a tiny tiny percentage of society, who cares? This debate should be so far down the scale on the things that matter in this country, and yet is seems to constantly be at the forefront of the news, and seems to ignite such strong opinions in people. It’s bizarre.

It can be weaponized by the loonies on the extreme right (and apparently also the obscure left, but mainly in the mainstream in the extreme right. Such as the tory leadershite).

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Thanks, I guess while we live in a climate of science denial. People are going to deny it. It's very sad though.

I'd like to invite them to a gravity denial party.
Round my place.
Upstairs.
Near a window.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Frankly I would have thought that sterilising, mutilating, and permanently medicalising minors, as promoted by WPATH, would have been more of a scandal than it currently is.

I have never heard of them.

Seems there is a good reason

World Professional Association for Transgender Health - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Has anyone ever heard of a world professional association of anything meaningful?
That governs world standards?
FIFA?
The world professional Darts is manged by ....PaddyPower!

PDC World Darts Championship - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Curious Orange]

I have never heard of them.

Seems there is a good reason

World Professional Association for Transgender Health - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Has anyone ever heard of a world professional association of anything meaningful?
That governs world standards?
FIFA?
The world professional Darts is manged by ....PaddyPower!

PDC World Darts Championship - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

WPATH are a rather dubious lot, who unfortunately gained a lot of influence internationally as people weren't checking the work they were citing.

Why disturbing leaks from US gender group WPATH ring alarm bells in the NHS | Hannah Barnes

WPATH is no model in the search for evidence-based care of transgender children

www.theguardian.com

 

[Knocky's Nose]

Am I allowed to say that's a load of old bollocks or is that not allowed anymore?

Bollocks or Labia... not sure which to refer to.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

WPATH are a rather dubious lot, who unfortunately gained a lot of influence internationally as people weren't checking the work they were citing.

Why disturbing leaks from US gender group WPATH ring alarm bells in the NHS | Hannah Barnes

WPATH is no model in the search for evidence-based care of transgender children

www.theguardian.com

I get very annoyed with people who don't check what the are citing.
As some of my final years students have discovered today, when I released the feedback for 53 in course essays.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Never ever ever will I ever understand why this stuff is such a big issue in today’s world. I mean, apart from a tiny tiny percentage of society, who cares? This debate should be so far down the scale on the things that matter in this country, and yet is seems to constantly be at the forefront of the news, and seems to ignite such strong opinions in people. It’s bizarre.

And these opinions seem to be mainly from middle-aged men. I say opinion, it’s more an obsession.

 

[Curious Orange]

And these opinions seem to be mainly from middle-aged men. I say opinion, it’s more an obsession.

I blame those good folk over in the USA:

 

[Audax]

That is true, but it's only a tiny part of the story. Even if you had a PhD in sexual development and gender identity (surely someone has one) you'd just say there was more to know.
When it came to trans issues for a long time I didn't really know anything about it, and I certainly didn't get it.
The single most important thing I realised is I don't have to. It doesn't effect me. I just have to not be a **** about it.
(In no way implying you are a **** here - added for clarity because we all know it's easy to misinterpret intentions in a post)

All good . I know I have a lot to learn, and I'm lucky to work for an employer who has invested in, and believes in, DEI.

The one thing I'd disagree with in your post above is "I don't have to". The more people who educate themselves on the topic, and at the very least through that education come to the same conclusion you have that there's no need to be a **** about it, the better. Even better, though, is people who take it a step beyond "not being a ****" and become an ally - calling out those people who are being a ****, pointing them at educational resources, ensure that those who might be marginalised by the "being a ****" element in society are made to feel welcome around you.

I've got more learning to do. I've done enough to know that the most common anti-trans arguments made are far too simplistic ("it's biology isn't it, you're born male or female") and/or not supported by data ("normal women are in danger from predatory trans-women using female-only facilities"). That last example, or variations on it, is one that I've seen casually trotted out a few times in this thread - and I would challenge those who have to go and do some proper research. The data available just doesn't back it up.

 

[beorhthelm]

And these opinions seem to be mainly from middle-aged men. I say opinion, it’s more an obsession.

ironically dismissing the views of women on the subject.