UK net migration hits record high

[cunning fergus]

Pretty much spot on.



Cant disagree with that. Trouble is too many people fail to appreciate this fact and its subtleties, or disagree with it (I think it more of an unconscious desire to not want to accept some form of ‘responsibility’) or worse don’t care. In addition particularly those in power, have little interest in the past, only interested with remaining popular and powerful today.

Apart from the fact that hundreds of thousands want to go to Germany, and just Germany.

Are you saying they are drawn there as a consequence of its history or is it something else?

 

[Captain Sensible]

http://news.sky.com/story/1546830/rail-track-refugee-wished-family-were-dead
The fella in the New York baseball cap that pulled his Mrs and child into the train tracks, refugee or economic migrant or both?
All I can tell is these people are healthy, well clothed and have money. I understand (if indeed they are Syrian) they want to escape the fighting in their home country. But they want a path to Germany, not Lithuania, Romania or Spain. If they really were asylum seekers then making use of the camps and applying for asylum there, should be the path. As they are aggressively not doing that, they in my view must be economic illegal migrants. The rest of Europe should be thankful the Hungarians are not letting the 1000's through. If only Greece had done this. Then when boarders are controlled, that's when we can really help those that are deserving of receiving asylum. In the meantime donations of money clothes food etc in a humanitarian European wide effort should have swung into action much quicker than it has to get better conditions at the camps in Hungary, Turkey, Greece and Jordan.

 

[Buzzer]

This is like watching a movie in reverse, trains arriving into germany and people being handed things

Exactly the plot of the Martin Amis novel Time's Arrow.

 

[Bold Seagull]

The starting point is that their is something like 20 - 30 million refugees and migrants, with such a scale it is nearly impossible to offer any fair resettlement without at some point closing entry.

There is a security issue here too, how can you allow 100 000's of unknown persons that come from countries that have a prevalent and active Islamic military arm, with differing degrees of allegiances with ISIS.

It needs to be dealt with on the ground, somehow some level of calm needs to be achieved, it can never be perfect, we cannot mop up the global wreckage.

I am indifferent to those that seem to have only now noticed there are atrocities happening in say Syria, well the Middle East seems to have a penchant for atrocities, it seems to be their default position.

The tragic photo of that drowned child doesnt depict a world recently gone bad, children die by neglect, abuse and deprivation in the UK, perhaps it would be more meaningful if those that want to foster a Syrian family consider fostering a UK child from one of our own residential childrens homes, neither one is more deserving than the other but this recent outrage and sadness at peoples struggles sits a little uncomfortable with me, too much ignorance touted around as compassion.

Neither child is more deserving or less deserving is surely what you are trying to say? Why is other people's reactions uncomfortable for you, where do you rise above the ignorant to form your opinion based seemingly the idea of just look after our own first, turn our back on whatever else, because whether you intend it or not, that is basically how what you are saying reads.

Children die in the UK through grave mistakes by our services and agencies and generally at the hands of criminal acts of neglect. We are not talking about criminal acts of neglect with refugees, we are just talking about helping them survive, doing all we can for that.

To call people ignorant for now wanting to prevent preventable deaths and this sits uncomfortable with you I do struggle to understand.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

http://news.sky.com/story/1546830/rail-track-refugee-wished-family-were-dead
The fella in the New York baseball cap that pulled his Mrs and child into the train tracks, refugee or economic migrant or both?
All I can tell is these people are healthy, well clothed and have money. I understand (if indeed they are Syrian) they want to escape the fighting in their home country. But they want a path to Germany, not Lithuania, Romania or Spain. If they really were asylum seekers then making use of the camps and applying for asylum there, should be the path. As they are aggressively not doing that, they in my view must be economic illegal migrants. The rest of Europe should be thankful the Hungarians are not letting the 1000's through. If only Greece had done this. Then when boarders are controlled, that's when we can really help those that are deserving of receiving asylum. In the meantime donations of money clothes food etc in a humanitarian European wide effort should have swung into action much quicker than it has to get better conditions at the camps in Hungary, Turkey, Greece and Jordan.

For sure there don't appear to be too many old people and/or weak people and/or poor people fleeing to safety. And then fleeing again from safety to somewhere that's a bit nicer. Those that have made it this far need to be properly processed and assessed in order to separate those who have a genuine case for asylum from the fly guy chancers, of whom there are patently many. And its the old/poor/weak who are left behind in the stampede to a better life in Europe that should be the main priority IMHO, not those that can buy or blag their way out.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

http://news.sky.com/story/1546830/rail-track-refugee-wished-family-were-dead
The fella in the New York baseball cap that pulled his Mrs and child into the train tracks, refugee or economic migrant or both?
All I can tell is these people are healthy, well clothed and have money. I understand (if indeed they are Syrian) they want to escape the fighting in their home country. But they want a path to Germany, not Lithuania, Romania or Spain. If they really were asylum seekers then making use of the camps and applying for asylum there, should be the path. As they are aggressively not doing that, they in my view must be economic illegal migrants. The rest of Europe should be thankful the Hungarians are not letting the 1000's through. If only Greece had done this. Then when boarders are controlled, that's when we can really help those that are deserving of receiving asylum. In the meantime donations of money clothes food etc in a humanitarian European wide effort should have swung into action much quicker than it has to get better conditions at the camps in Hungary, Turkey, Greece and Jordan.

This has been going on since 2011, ever since the boats started arriving on the Island on Lampadusa. It could even be earlier. Many of us could see the possible fallout back then, so it is no surprise that it has got to this stage really. The EU has had ample warning about this and hundreds of millions of pounds to deal with the issue, instead they just left it to Italy and Greece to sort out. They wiped their hands of the problem. I have relatives in Southern Italy who told my mum the situation is terrible. As with all these things, the goodwill of people will only last so long and when people see that is hasn't made a scrap of difference to the flow of people wanting to get to the EU, then people will start asking questions.

 

[Sweeney Todd]

Well done, using human misery and death to further your own, totally unrelated, political ideology and beliefs.
A piss poor post!

I am not a communist. My post was written tongue-in-cheek.

 

[BigGully]

Neither child is more deserving or less deserving is surely what you are trying to say? Why is other people's reactions uncomfortable for you, where do you rise above the ignorant to form your opinion based seemingly the idea of just look after our own first, turn our back on whatever else, because whether you intend it or not, that is basically how what you are saying reads.

Children die in the UK through grave mistakes by our services and agencies and generally at the hands of criminal acts of neglect. We are not talking about criminal acts of neglect with refugees, we are just talking about helping them survive, doing all we can for that.

To call people ignorant for now wanting to prevent preventable deaths and this sits uncomfortable with you I do struggle to understand.

Its the recent acknowledgement of peoples struggles that is ignorant.

I do not see how children that are starved, beaten, killed in the UK is part of some criminal neglect whilst others in the middle east are somehow not.

You seem unable to grasp that the numbers are unsustainable, that every Syrian isnt at the precipice of death and perhaps should not be prioritised over any human that is currently starving, in abject poverty, in a war zone, in an abusive family, diseased or dying.

I dont wish to become tribal about this, but what exactly is wrong with perhaps offering a UK child an opportunity of love and care at a time when it seems many have only in recent days found compassion to offer it to someone else ??

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

I have relatives in Southern Italy who told my mum the situation is terrible. As with all these things, the goodwill of people will only last so long and when people see that is hasn't made a scrap of difference to the flow of people wanting to get to the EU, then people will start asking questions.

For sure there's a backlash brewing. Not too familiar with Southern Italy, but I do know the people of, say, Kos, rely on their income from the short tourist season to survive.They're getting enough EU-generated shit economically without having to somehow cope with an influx of uncontrolled immigration and the subsequent exodus of tourists who no longer want to go there for that reason. Something has to give, and unfortunately it's going to be the goodwill of the people on the sharp end.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Its the recent acknowledgement of peoples struggles that is ignorant.

I do not see how children that are starved, beaten, killed in the UK is part of some criminal neglect whilst others in the middle east are somehow not.

You seem unable to grasp that the numbers are unsustainable, that every Syrian isnt at the precipice of death and perhaps should not be prioritised over any human that is currently starving, in abject poverty, in a war zone, in an abusive family, diseased or dying.

I dont wish to become tribal about this, but what exactly is wrong with perhaps offering a UK child an opportunity of love and care at a time when it seems many have only in recent days found compassion to offer it to someone else ??

Where have I said that every Syrian is on the precipice of death, or that our response needs to help everyone? You just cannot help the exaggerated language and accusations that others appear ignorant or unable to grasp fundamental principles that you believe, almost arrogantly perhaps, that you hold over others.

I am saying, and I will repeat it, that I do not believe there is any difference between helping any child of any background if we are able to help them. I completely understand we couldn't help everyone, that solutions wouldn't be perfect, or be able to help everyone, but I know with real conviction we could be doing more.

You seem most irked by people's response to this situation rather than the situation itself. There shouldn't really be a distinction between helping a child, but you seem determined to make one.

 

[pb21]

Apart from the fact that hundreds of thousands want to go to Germany, and just Germany.

Are you saying they are drawn there as a consequence of its history or is it something else?

No, I am saying what On the Left Wing said, which was:

The current refugee exodus exists due to 800 years of our collective history as a colonial and Christian power, hell-bent on exporting our values, religion and control on other nations

 

[Pork Knuckle Pete]

You seem most irked by people's response to this situation rather than the situation itself.

This seems a common trait amongst a lot of people on here. A number of the regular NSC little Englanders seem to be more interested in making snide comments about those wanting to help, as opposed to offering any compassion or meaningful help themselves. I now await the ridiculous "how many are you putting up?" response.

 

[Wrong-Direction]

I know a solider who is spouting so much hate on fassbook, do they replace brains with peanuts when you join the army?

 

[BigGully]

Where have I said that every Syrian is on the precipice of death, or that our response needs to help everyone? You just cannot help the exaggerated language and accusations that others appear ignorant or unable to grasp fundamental principles that you believe, almost arrogantly perhaps, that you hold over others.

I am saying, and I will repeat it, that I do not believe there is any difference between helping any child of any background if we are able to help them. I completely understand we couldn't help everyone, that solutions wouldn't be perfect, or be able to help everyone, but I know with real conviction we could be doing more.

You seem most irked by people's response to this situation rather than the situation itself. There shouldn't really be a distinction between helping a child, but you seem determined to make one.

My point remains, why would it take recent events for some people to somehow find compassion in world full of reasons to be moved by sadness everyday, we are told some are now willing to house Syrian refugees (accepting its unlikely to ever happen) whilst never finding the same compassion previously, currently or in the future for equally vulnerable people here in the UK.

Its no more than an observation that perhaps makes their claims more hollow to me, why not afford similar generosity to children here.

 

[Wrong-Direction]

My point remains, why would it take recent events for some people to somehow find compassion in world full of reasons to be moved by sadness everyday, we are told some are now willing to house Syrian refugees (accepting its unlikely to ever happen) whilst never finding the same compassion previously, currently or in the future for equally vulnerable people here in the UK.

Its no more than an observation that perhaps makes their claims more hollow to me, why not afford similar generosity to children here.

The internet is more powerful than any government nowadays..

 

[BigGully]

This seems a common trait amongst a lot of people on here. A number of the regular NSC little Englanders seem to be more interested in making snide comments about those wanting to help, as opposed to offering any compassion or meaningful help themselves. I now await the ridiculous "how many are you putting up?" response.

You know what, I cannot recall ever calling you a 'wet wipe', 'hand wringer', 'Leftie', 'wimp' or 'lilly livered', so I would appreciate it if you kept your childish ramblings to yourself .............................

 

[pb21]

why not afford similar generosity to children here.

Why not not?

 

[BigGully]

Why not not?

Would you be just as flippant in response to a vulnerable child refugee or do you save that for UK children

 

[symyjym]

Why is the only solution to this current issue 'open the gates'. It seems the only two positions in this debate are either a) let millions in, or b) do nothing and protect our borders.

It surely is far more complex than that, and much more could be done without simply suggesting unchecked migration.

I'm no expert on what could be done, so can't offer solutions, but many agencies must have the experience and know how of what is needed to firstly help those most desperately in need, and secondly to ensure the vulnerable are protected. Something like 2500 of the asylum seeking applications last year were unaccompanied children. Kids desperate for someone, or to find lost family. These aren't young men on mobile phones in Nike trainers, its 2500 children.

The answer isn't just unchecked migration, but it isn't do nothing and just protect borders either. These are human beings, and regardless of every 1 chancer adult male looking for a free ride, we must know there are equally desperate young families, women and children. You don't not help these people because of the odd chancer, you just have to manage the situation as best you can.

So perhaps it's not open entry to Europe, but I just think Britain could lead Europe in this, step forward in solidarity with say Germany and come up with a unilateral plan than others can follow. Surely if DC wants us to remain in Europe to convince us of its merits, this is the time to step up to the plate, not cower scared of opinion polls in the shadows.

Like I said, I don't have the solutions, but I know one unacceptable solution is to do nothing.

My point is that they should all be processed in the first safe country they land in. That country, with international and UN support, should be able to provide shelter, food and medical assistance.

If someone or a family wants to go to Germany as an example, but cannot speak the language, there is no reason why they cannot learn the basics before they go there. It is also handy to understand their skill set so they can be pointed in the right direction when they do. A refugee camp should be able to assist them for the next step of their journey. That is not doing nothing.

I know the term swarm is not very PC at the moment, but that is what the human race does. Monkey see monkey do. If people see a collection of others doing something it makes it look like a no brainer and many are sure to follow. It’s the same principle of human nature in stocks and shares or Black Friday.

 

[Pork Knuckle Pete]

You know what, I cannot recall ever calling you a 'wet wipe', 'hand wringer', 'Leftie', 'wimp' or 'lilly livered', so I would appreciate it if you kept your childish ramblings to yourself .............................

You missed out champagne socialist