UK net migration hits record high

[Publius Ovidius]

People know when they get rescued there going to be taken to mainland Europe, and when they get to Europe there not going to be sent back, that is the first mistake because it just encourages more and more people. Where does this end? Does it end when the whole of Africa and other countries arrive in the EU. There is not enough of anything to go around especially in some parts of the EU where the economy is wrecked and people are just about managing to feed themselves.

There is also absolutely no distinction at the moment between people who are in genuine need or people who are just using this an opportunity to get to the EU for economic reasons. We can't help everyone. We need to get real about the situation. Apart from that there is also the security issues to take in to consideration, and the possibility that the EU could get wrapped up in other countries political and religious issues.

I agree that there is no distinction, but my point is you were suggesting that there is actually something that we can do about it...I was getting at the logistics....do you suggest shelling the boats as they set sail? Cameron tried to suggest we sink the boats in harbours...but that will involve military action in sovereign countries which is against UN rules.

With the situation in Syria, and the fact that the vast majority of their population have upped sticks, I read that Jordan has around 2 million refugees then Europe is seen as the holy grail as it is mostly safe and wealthy. Especially Germany. Most migrants don't want to come here anyway.

 

[Withdean11]

Most migrants don't want to come here anyway.

Yes they do. We will house them and give them benefits. Of course they want to come here.

 

[Publius Ovidius]

Yes they do. We will house them and give them benefits. Of course they want to come here.

No they don't...they want to go to Germany and Sweden. We have a small amount of people seeking sanctuary.

What is skewing the argument in the UK is the amount of migrants from Europe who are legally entitled to come here to work. They are being confused with those trying to get through the channel and some of them dying in the process.



The issue that people are just

 

[Nibble]

I think it's clear that we cannot just accept anyone that wants to enter for whatever reason but in order to cease the flow of immigrants/refugees you cannot just say we won't help them. They'll still come because there exists a network in the UK of unscrupulous employers, landlords and criminals that will absorb them into their ranks.
I suppose if we have a duty it's to try and help the people in their countries of origin but how do we do that?
I don't think leaving the EU is the solution for the simple fact that refugees and illegals will find a way to circumnavigate any systems in place. If someone is willing to risk their life to walk through the tunnel a few new bits of legislation is not going to stop them. Truth is that the only way to physically stop them is to involve the military but I for one do not want to see the carnage that would entail.
The problem is there are too many people in the world living in war zones and poverty. Until that is addressed it'll never stop but I'll freely admit that's almost impossible.

 

[Nibble]

Yes they do. We will house them and give them benefits. Of course they want to come here.

Genuine question. What are they entitled to if they do come and claim asylum?

 

[Withdean11]

Genuine question. What are they entitled to if they do come and claim asylum?

You can ask for somewhere to live, a cash allowance or both as an asylum seeker.

Housing

You’ll be given somewhere to live if you need it. This could be in a flat, house, hostel or bed and breakfast.

You can’t choose where you live. It’s unlikely you’ll get to live in London or south-east England.

Cash support

You’ll be able to collect money from a local post office each week. This will help you pay for things you need like food, clothing and toiletries.

You’ll get £36.95 for each person in your household.

If you’ve been refused asylum

You’ll be given:

somewhere to live
£35.39 per person on a payment card for food, clothing and toiletries

You won’t be given:

the payment card if you don’t take the offer of somewhere to live
any money

Extra money for mothers and young children

You’ll get extra money to buy healthy food if you’re pregnant or a mother of a child under 3. The amount you get will depend on your situation.
Your situation Extra payment per week
Pregnant mother £3
Baby under 1 year old £5
Child aged 1 to 3 £3
Maternity payment

You can apply for a one-off £300 maternity payment if your baby is due in 8 weeks or less, or if your baby is under 6 weeks old.
If you’ve been refused asylum

You can apply for a one-off £250 maternity payment if your baby is due in 8 weeks or less or if you baby is under 6 weeks old.
Applying for the maternity grant

You apply for the maternity grant in the same way whether you’re still an asylum seeker or you’ve been refused asylum.

You’ll need to request form MAT B1 from your doctor to apply for the payment. You can apply for the maternity payment at the same time you apply for asylum support.

If you get pregnant after you’ve applied for asylum support, you can apply to the support team that dealt with your application for asylum support.
Healthcare

You may get free National Health Service (NHS) healthcare, eg to see a doctor or get hospital treatment.

You’ll also get:

free prescriptions for medicine
free dental care for your teeth
free eyesight tests
help paying for glasses

Education

Your children must attend school if they are aged 5 to 17. All state schools are free and your children may be able to get free school meals.

https://www.gov.uk/asylum-support/what-youll-get

 

[Hastings gull]

How do you propose doing that? Sending troops to patrol every port in the southern Mediterranean? What about those migrants landing in the canaries? Sending troops to every port in west Africa? Whose troops would they be? The UN? The U.S.? THe EU...who don't have a standing army themselves? The U.S. Have their own issues with Mexican migration so they don't give a stuff about what is going on in Europe...watching American news channels the last few weeks on board show that.

This is the first time almost since the Protestant/ catholic uprisings in the time of William and Mary that there has ben a mass migration of people ( perhaps also the Jews to Palestine after the war) where Huguenots and went one way and Catholics etc went the other.

You say say Europe is encouraging more, I am not sure what you mean...how are we encouraging more? At the end of the day we have to be seen to be sympathetic to fellow human beings, especially those fleeing war and famine. The suggestion that we just turn our backs is not viable is it.

I predict that what you mention in you first para is exactly what will happen. It will take a few years until politicians sum up the courage to advocate a blockade of the African coast by NATO navies, as we become so desperate to stop the surge, and civil strife breaks out in many countries. Of course that won't entirely stop the stem, but once they know that the boats and their occupants will be returned by force against their will, then it is likely that at least the people smugglers would think twice. It will be a sad day, and doubtless many heart-rending scenes will be on the box, at least initially.
But it must be clear to you and anyone using common sense that we cannot go on like this. Simply finding a "humanitarian solution", as you suggest, will not bring a solution at all, just even more, sensing that Europe is a soft target. As with others easing their consciences by advocating helping fellow human beings, what are you personally doing? How many are you housing and intend to house? What of course you mean is that they should go somewhere and someone else will take them in.
Just because someone has had a terrible life, and now sits in Calais demanding to be allowed in, does not necessarily mean that we should agree to this at all. If a beggar knocks on your door, telling you about the awful experiences he has had in life and demands to be let in, would you?

 

[Nibble]

You can ask for somewhere to live, a cash allowance or both as an asylum seeker.

Housing

You’ll be given somewhere to live if you need it. This could be in a flat, house, hostel or bed and breakfast.

You can’t choose where you live. It’s unlikely you’ll get to live in London or south-east England.

Cash support

You’ll be able to collect money from a local post office each week. This will help you pay for things you need like food, clothing and toiletries.

You’ll get £36.95 for each person in your household.

If you’ve been refused asylum

You’ll be given:

somewhere to live
£35.39 per person on a payment card for food, clothing and toiletries

You won’t be given:

the payment card if you don’t take the offer of somewhere to live
any money

Extra money for mothers and young children

You’ll get extra money to buy healthy food if you’re pregnant or a mother of a child under 3. The amount you get will depend on your situation.
Your situation Extra payment per week
Pregnant mother £3
Baby under 1 year old £5
Child aged 1 to 3 £3
Maternity payment

You can apply for a one-off £300 maternity payment if your baby is due in 8 weeks or less, or if your baby is under 6 weeks old.
If you’ve been refused asylum

You can apply for a one-off £250 maternity payment if your baby is due in 8 weeks or less or if you baby is under 6 weeks old.
Applying for the maternity grant

You apply for the maternity grant in the same way whether you’re still an asylum seeker or you’ve been refused asylum.

You’ll need to request form MAT B1 from your doctor to apply for the payment. You can apply for the maternity payment at the same time you apply for asylum support.

If you get pregnant after you’ve applied for asylum support, you can apply to the support team that dealt with your application for asylum support.
Healthcare

You may get free National Health Service (NHS) healthcare, eg to see a doctor or get hospital treatment.

You’ll also get:

free prescriptions for medicine
free dental care for your teeth
free eyesight tests
help paying for glasses

Education

Your children must attend school if they are aged 5 to 17. All state schools are free and your children may be able to get free school meals.

https://www.gov.uk/asylum-support/what-youll-get

I won't go into the rights and wrongs of them receiving that but you can see why they wish to come here if that's on offer. When I was made redundant years ago I went about setting up my own business on the NEA or whatever it was called then. I didn't get offered half those things. A few workshops and a paltry weekly allowance was what was offered. I didn't bother with it in the end. The hassle was way too much for the meagre offerings.

 

[alfredmizen]

I predict that what you mention in you first para is exactly what will happen. It will take a few years until politicians sum up the courage to advocate a blockade of the African coast by NATO navies, as we become so desperate to stop the surge, and civil strife breaks out in many countries. Of course that won't entirely stop the stem, but once they know that the boats and their occupants will be returned by force against their will, then it is likely that at least the people smugglers would think twice. It will be a sad day, and doubtless many heart-rending scenes will be on the box, at least initially.
But it must be clear to you and anyone using common sense that we cannot go on like this. Simply finding a "humanitarian solution", as you suggest, will not bring a solution at all, just even more, sensing that Europe is a soft target. As with others easing their consciences by advocating helping fellow human beings, what are you personally doing? How many are you housing and intend to house? What of course you mean is that they should go somewhere and someone else will take them in.
Just because someone has had a terrible life, and now sits in Calais demanding to be allowed in, does not necessarily mean that we should agree to this at all. If a beggar knocks on your door, telling you about the awful experiences he has had in life and demands to be let in, would you?

Thats it, in a nutshell, all these people advocating letting them in are quite confident the beggar will be knocking on doors miles away.

 

[Captain Sensible]

You are correct it is an epic fail,its obvious these targets cannot be achieved while we are members of the EU, he was having a severe blonde moment in making this promise.I hope this is a lesson to future governments that they wont make similar pledges no matter how many concerns the citizens have as its abundantly clear when it comes to EU citizens the UK has no control over who comes in.

Non EU targets have been missed. So I think you are trying to twist what I said regarding Cameron's failing. The UK does have a mandate for control of its borders of non EU migrants, yet they fail to stop illegal migration.
Setting up UK border controls at Calais and Dunkirk and all ports operating to the UK with proper and correct security is the only way non EU illegal migrants can be stopped from entering. It's pretty easy, we are an island. Yet the money has not been spent and instead panic fences are erected. The government is at fault for neglecting to invest in borders as they promised. They have had over 5 years.
EU migration works both ways and generally is a benefit to the UK. The Schengen Agreement is more concerning for me, that 100's of thousands are entering the EU and then not being tracked. As the UK is not in Schengen it's not effecting us yet. But just purely on a security basis, the EU and its countries have no idea where these people are settling. Schengen needs to be abandoned.
EU migration is here to stay and generally is a positive thing. I work with many Spanish and French colleagues in the aviation industry. I have also had the ability to work in Germany for a time. This type of free jobs market movement is extremely positive and I think that EU migration and Non EU migration are 2 entirely different things!

 

[Hastings gull]

No they don't...they want to go to Germany and Sweden. We have a small amount of people seeking sanctuary.

What is skewing the argument in the UK is the amount of migrants from Europe who are legally entitled to come here to work. They are being confused with those trying to get through the channel and some of them dying in the process.

Apparently Sweden has a deal with Syria due to earlier close ties, whereby they will automatically give residency status to anyone from that country fleeing the war. It makes it look like the Swedes are doing more than their fair share, though to be fair, they are being very generous, but the correspondent last night did say that the locals are understandably not happy. Doubtless those from other countries would also try their luck there, seeing them as a soft touch.
Yes, the issue is muddled with non EU and EU immigration and I have always said that one should be very careful when numbers are discussed, as it can be so easy to confuse the two.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Thing I find hardest to stomach is the stereotypical image of desperate oppressed people escaping to the safety of Europe. So much hypocrisy. For starters, they're cherry-picking the bit of Europe they want to reach, which is the rich and liberal parts of North Europe. Southern Europe? Not interested. More disgustingly, the real desperately oppressed people are the poor sods left behind while the chancers in AC Milan tops, the rich, the well-connected and young and fit do a runner that would out-Bolt Usain. Feel WAY more sympathy for the infinitely more vulnerable people left behind in the mad stampede to Europe.

 

[Captain Sensible]

No they don't...they want to go to Germany and Sweden. We have a small amount of people seeking sanctuary.

What is skewing the argument in the UK is the amount of migrants from Europe who are legally entitled to come here to work. They are being confused with those trying to get through the channel and some of them dying in the process.

Apparently Sweden has a deal with Syria due to earlier close ties, whereby they will automatically give residency status to anyone from that country fleeing the war. It makes it look like the Swedes are doing more than their fair share, though to be fair, they are being very generous, but the correspondent last night did say that the locals are understandably not happy. Doubtless those from other countries would also try their luck there, seeing them as a soft touch.
Yes, the issue is muddled with non EU and EU immigration and I have always said that one should be very careful when numbers are discussed, as it can be so easy to confuse the two.

Completely this!!
It's the Non EU illegal migration that is the problem. Those are the numbers the government can directly control. Yet they haven't managed to do it in over 5 years.

 

[Hastings gull]

Non EU targets have been missed. So I think you are trying to twist what I said regarding Cameron's failing. The UK does have a mandate for control of its borders of non EU migrants, yet they fail to stop illegal migration.
Setting up UK border controls at Calais and Dunkirk and all ports operating to the UK with proper and correct security is the only way non EU illegal migrants can be stopped from entering. It's pretty easy, we are an island. Yet the money has not been spent and instead panic fences are erected. The government is at fault for neglecting to invest in borders as they promised. They have had over 5 years.
EU migration works both ways and generally is a benefit to the UK. The Schengen Agreement is more concerning for me, that 100's of thousands are entering the EU and then not being tracked. As the UK is not in Schengen it's not effecting us yet. But just purely on a security basis, the EU and its countries have no idea where these people are settling. Schengen needs to be abandoned.
EU migration is here to stay and generally is a positive thing. I work with many Spanish and French colleagues in the aviation industry. I have also had the ability to work in Germany for a time. This type of free jobs market movement is extremely positive and I think that EU migration and Non EU migration are 2 entirely different things!

I suspect that Schengen will go at some stage though that will not stop immigrants from crossing borders in a dark forest at night. What do you suggest the government does then in Calais -surely they are doing now what you suggest; the fencing is a part of this strategy.
Whilst you may have a point about EU immigration being a positive thing, might it also be that you are judging this on the basis of cooperation with relatively few people, presumably all highly qualified, and do not perhaps see the other side of the coin, whereby some areas of the UK are finding it difficult to absorb thousands of less educated immigrants on the scale that we are witnessing.
Yes, non EU and EU immigration are entirely different - to an extent. But if your child's school is finding it hard to absorb newcomers on an unprecedented scale, then it probably will not make much difference if they are from Latvia or Somalia.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

Sweden will regret it in the end. There is being Liberal and sensible, and there is being Liberal and bloody stupid. Sweden is being bloody stupid. Opinion is changing in Sweden as they see the reality.
http://news.sky.com/story/1542262/swedens-tolerance-tested-by-migrant-surge

 

[Publius Ovidius]

Non EU targets have been missed. So I think you are trying to twist what I said regarding Cameron's failing. The UK does have a mandate for control of its borders of non EU migrants, yet they fail to stop illegal migration.
Setting up UK border controls at Calais and Dunkirk and all ports operating to the UK with proper and correct security is the only way non EU illegal migrants can be stopped from entering. It's pretty easy, we are an island. Yet the money has not been spent and instead panic fences are erected. The government is at fault for neglecting to invest in borders as they promised. They have had over 5 years.
EU migration works both ways and generally is a benefit to the UK. The Schengen Agreement is more concerning for me, that 100's of thousands are entering the EU and then not being tracked. As the UK is not in Schengen it's not effecting us yet. But just purely on a security basis, the EU and its countries have no idea where these people are settling. Schengen needs to be abandoned.
EU migration is here to stay and generally is a positive thing. I work with many Spanish and French colleagues in the aviation industry. I have also had the ability to work in Germany for a time. This type of free jobs market movement is extremely positive and I think that EU migration and Non EU migration are 2 entirely different things!

I am really not sure why there is not the will to set up UK processing centers in France where the migrants can visit and apply for asylum, or whatever they want to do. The ones that are genuine, and yes I know that is a thankless task and in some cases impossible to measure, will be given visas and let in and the rest will be refused entry and then removed( where to is the issue of course)

 

[Soulman]

Sweden will regret it in the end. There is being Liberal and sensible, and there is being Liberal and bloody stupid. Sweden is being bloody stupid. Opinion is changing in Sweden as they see the reality.
http://news.sky.com/story/1542262/swedens-tolerance-tested-by-migrant-surge

Must have been a few years ago I pointed out the trouble in Sweden, Malmo. Bound to happen and get worse

 

[carlzeiss]

Must have been a few years ago I pointed out the trouble in Sweden, Malmo. Bound to happen and get worse

An Eritrean man facing deportation has admitted to the double stabbing murder of a mother and son at an Ikea store in Sweden this week, his lawyer said.

"The man has admitted to the two murders," the TT news agency quoted lawyer Per-Ingvar Ekblad as saying.

Swedish media have reported the 36-year-old man had been issued with a deportation order to send him to Italy.

Media reports said the unnamed suspect had met with immigration officials to discuss his case just a day before the attack in the central town of Vasteras.

Footage of the attack shows the man grabbing knives from the kitchenware section and then stabbing two shoppers, a 55-year-old woman and her 28-year-old son, according to the Swedish daily Aftonbladet.

The suspect then stabbed himself in the stomach before being evacuated to the hospital, where he was briefly in a coma.

A second suspect, a 23-year-old Eritrean, was found waiting outside at a bus stop by the furniture store in Vasteras.

Sweden is home to an Eritrean community of about 18,000 immigrants who fled an authoritarian regime and poverty in their home country.

After Syrians, Eritreans are the largest group of asylum seekers in the Nordic country, with more than 4,200 applying for asylum in 2015.

The number of asylum seekers in Sweden is expected to rise significantly in the coming years.

AFP

 

[heathgate]

I am really not sure why there is not the will to set up UK processing centers in France where the migrants can visit and apply for asylum, or whatever they want to do. The ones that are genuine, and yes I know that is a thankless task and in some cases impossible to measure, will be given visas and let in and the rest will be refused entry and then removed( where to is the issue of course)

Because if they claim asylum in France, that's where they have to stay to claim support.....

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

So you migrated from some urban hell hole to the leafy Paradise that is Haywards Heath, to improve your quality of life? And yet, you would condemn foreign migrants who are fleeing real possibility of death,for wanting a better quality of life in Britain.



A solution to the housing problem maybe to build thousands and thousands of new low cost houses on Brown field sites.
We could get East European brickies, plumbers, plastered, and sparkies to move to this country to build them

fantasist if ever i've heard one, get yourself clued up , it's people like you that make this country a soft touch
regards
DR