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sudan crisis- should western governments pay for aid?
- Thread starter Mr Popkins
- Start date
Lord Bracknell
On fire
For heaven's sake, you two.
"Arab" doesn't mean the same as "Islamic". And "Islamic" doesn't mean "fundamentalist".
There are 14 million Christian Arabs living in the middle east, a substantial proportion in Sudan. It won't help find a solution if people in the west make a working assumption that all Arabs are Islamic fundamentalists. They aren't.
"Arab" doesn't mean the same as "Islamic". And "Islamic" doesn't mean "fundamentalist".
There are 14 million Christian Arabs living in the middle east, a substantial proportion in Sudan. It won't help find a solution if people in the west make a working assumption that all Arabs are Islamic fundamentalists. They aren't.
Lammy
Registered Abuser
Lord Bracknell said:
I don't think anyone is making that assumption. Dave has hit a very big nail on the head. The Arab nations have sat back and been happy to take take take. They are what they are today due to western money pouring into their countries for their oil. I don't see them hating our money. Just us.
However, they do not help their cause that when there is any problems in the rest of the world they just sit back on their chairs made of money and do NOTHING. Why does the rest of the world constantly look to America when aid is required and yet when they give aid they are damned. Geographically alone, it would be far easier for Saudi Arabia and Kuwait to dip their hands in their pockets...
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Man of Harveys
Well-known member
Strange...maybe weirdly - I can't seem to bring myself to draw almost-laughably broad and unsavoury conclusions about the views of nearly 1 billion individuals.
I'm obviously lacking this special mindreading insight that some on here - some of whom I suspect should really know better but are actually sounding like the worst kind of pig-ignorant bigots - benefit from. Ho hum, that's life.
I'm obviously lacking this special mindreading insight that some on here - some of whom I suspect should really know better but are actually sounding like the worst kind of pig-ignorant bigots - benefit from. Ho hum, that's life.
We are never going to agree of this one. I am with Dave and Lammy.
I am sick to the back teeth of the Arab world criticising the West and The USA when they have more compasion in the right toe nail than many people from this area of the world.
I did not see 20 American citizens hi jack planes and fly them into buildings in Iraq or Afghanistan. The world crisis since 2001 has been caused by Islamic Fundamentalists, plain and simple. You can argue and try and justify a reason for 11/9/01 but I won't waste my breath are this is none and argue how the USA has responded since but the Arab world brought this on and the Islamic Fundamentalists within their mdist who none of them condemn would believe me have dropped a nuclear bomb on New York that day if they had one and killed 12 000 000 without a second thought.
They hate You Lord as you are a white, westerner and non Islamic, they want you dead.
The Arab world has untold wealth even thought through dictatorships many ordinary Abduls do not see it. They persecute their women, are totally pro male, don't want education for women and stone to death people who steal loaves of bread. What is their to like ?, what is good about these morals and beliefs ?.
They could help out the Sudan if they wanted but it is left to us in the West , so dispised by the Arab world to help out their neighbours and that makes me very mad.
I am sick to the back teeth of the Arab world criticising the West and The USA when they have more compasion in the right toe nail than many people from this area of the world.
I did not see 20 American citizens hi jack planes and fly them into buildings in Iraq or Afghanistan. The world crisis since 2001 has been caused by Islamic Fundamentalists, plain and simple. You can argue and try and justify a reason for 11/9/01 but I won't waste my breath are this is none and argue how the USA has responded since but the Arab world brought this on and the Islamic Fundamentalists within their mdist who none of them condemn would believe me have dropped a nuclear bomb on New York that day if they had one and killed 12 000 000 without a second thought.
They hate You Lord as you are a white, westerner and non Islamic, they want you dead.
The Arab world has untold wealth even thought through dictatorships many ordinary Abduls do not see it. They persecute their women, are totally pro male, don't want education for women and stone to death people who steal loaves of bread. What is their to like ?, what is good about these morals and beliefs ?.
They could help out the Sudan if they wanted but it is left to us in the West , so dispised by the Arab world to help out their neighbours and that makes me very mad.
Man of Harveys
Well-known member
Interesting...the way you're frothing at the mouth about "them" on here suggests to me at least that maybe your rather obsessive post-Sep 11 charity work was essentially a socially-acceptable outlet for the hateful views you have of Muslims?Wonder how many people who took part or gave money (myself included) realised this might the case?
Lord Bracknell
On fire
That is simply NOT my experience of the Arab world, Gareth.Gareth Glover said:
Have you ever been there? Do you have Arab friends? Do you have Arab relatives?
I have never mentioned Muslims once. I have said Islamic Fundamentalists.
I don't understand where your coming from. The fund has helped under priviledged children in the USA and local Uk to play football after a tragic death on 11/9/01.
How is this some conspiracy for my hateful views of Muslims which I have never said. I am talking about the dictatorships in the Middle East and Islamic Fundamentalists.
If you think I have been obsessive about this charity, your right as its something I total believe in and have given a lot of time too, including now.
I do not have to apologise for this.
I don't understand where your coming from. The fund has helped under priviledged children in the USA and local Uk to play football after a tragic death on 11/9/01.
How is this some conspiracy for my hateful views of Muslims which I have never said. I am talking about the dictatorships in the Middle East and Islamic Fundamentalists.
If you think I have been obsessive about this charity, your right as its something I total believe in and have given a lot of time too, including now.
I do not have to apologise for this.
I am saying Islamic Fundamentalists Ed. I have said all through the thread and have never said Muslims. I have not met an Islamic Fundamentalist to my knowledge. You are a more travel and experienced man than me and I am sure you are right.
Lord Bracknell
On fire
No they don't.Gareth Glover said:
It's Catholics who stone people to death ...
Angry villagers in southern Mexico stone to death alleged witch
AP (14.04.2003)/ HRWF Int. (16.04.2003)
An angry crowd stoned to death an Indian man accused of practicing witchcraft in a southern Mexico town with a long tradition of religious violence.
The man, Domingo Shilon Shilon, was also hacked with machetes Sunday by the crowd in San Juan Chamula, a majority Catholic township on the outskirts of the colonial city of San Cristobal, 460 miles southeast of Mexico City.
Shilon, 50, was caught by the crowd in a neighborhood known as Rancho Narvaez, state police said. After killing him, the crowd partially burned his body.
Shilon, like most of his alleged attackers, was a Tzotzil Indian, a branch of the Maya. The Chiapas state Justice Department said an investigation was continuing into the killing, but it is often difficult to prosecute such cases, given that witnesses are frequently unwilling to testify.
Since the 1960s, San Juan Chamula has seen numerous killings and confrontations as "traditional" Catholics - who mix pre-Hispanic Indian rights with Roman liturgy - battle to expel evangelical Protestants.
Witchcraft is often blamed for outbreaks of illness or the deaths of children in the impoverished Indian community, where many practice faith healing and some residents - mainly men - engage in so-called "white" magic.
In 1996, residents of another San Juan Chamula neighborhood beat and then hanged a man suspected of causing ailments and misfortune through witchcraft. The villagers killed the man after they went to a cave he frequented and found bottles dressed in the local Indian garb, objects he allegedly used in casting spells on people.
... Or, just possibly, it's inappropriate to generalise.
Maybe they both do Lord.
Lammy
Registered Abuser
When I say 'them' I mean the governments of arab nations. I don't mean every single arab in the world!
Look at the figures! The facts speak for themselves. Rather than label me a bigot can you defend the arab nations who choose not to give aid?
And for the record I do have arab friends.
Look at the figures! The facts speak for themselves. Rather than label me a bigot can you defend the arab nations who choose not to give aid?
And for the record I do have arab friends.
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The criticisms are of the Arab World leaders/dictators and Islamic fundamentalists, not Arab people or Muslims.
Lammy
Registered Abuser
Gareth Glover said:
bingo!
It seems to me we are not able to criticise other nations/leaders with legitimate causes without beling labeled, rascist or being accused of having anti Muslim views. It is of course ok for anti western views to be exchanged however.
I could call 90% of NSC anti American as the USA has been slated for 2 years on here. That of course is socially acceptable. Noone is questioned about this or have their personal lives and choices questions and slandered.
I could call 90% of NSC anti American as the USA has been slated for 2 years on here. That of course is socially acceptable. Noone is questioned about this or have their personal lives and choices questions and slandered.
Lord Bracknell
On fire
Gareth -
If you can find ONE example of an state sanctioned execution by stoning for theft (in, say, the last twenty five years) anywhere in the Arab or Islamic world, post the details here.
Until I see your evidence, I will persist with my claim that "they" don't stone to death people who steal loaves of bread.
If you can find ONE example of an state sanctioned execution by stoning for theft (in, say, the last twenty five years) anywhere in the Arab or Islamic world, post the details here.
Until I see your evidence, I will persist with my claim that "they" don't stone to death people who steal loaves of bread.
Man of Harveys
Well-known member
Lammy said:
And for the record, I didn't "label" anyone a bigot - I said that some were sounding very much like bigots, for the simple reason that some people were.
Please Pm me back as I need to have an explanation.
Lammy
Registered Abuser
Man of Harveys said:
Did
Man of Harveys
Well-known member
Lammy said:
Didn't. This is a cut'n'paste:
"some of whom I suspect should really know better but are actually sounding like the worst kind of pig-ignorant bigots "