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[Politics] Sir Keir Starmer’s route to Number 10



WATFORD zero

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 10, 2003
26,025
I'd let it go....but before I blocked him, I became fixated by his (quite useful) posts on the old photos of Brighton thread where he would post a perfectly identifiable pic of for example the Palace Pier, and lable it 'an old picture of Palace pier?' At least one poster asked him why he kept adding unnecessary question marks? I think he may have some sort of issue? Oh well, never mind?

I think we all have issues H and we are all capable of posting good stuff, sometimes just links. The real question is whether your issue manifests itself as you being a stupid **** constantly when you move outside of posting links or thumbs up emojis :wink:

(appreciate the irony :lolol:)
 






stewart12

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2019
1,615
None of this has been tried?

Processing claims, dealing with the French?

Let's give Sir Starmer a year, then we'll come back to this chat.

this is what we previously did, and it was a lot more successful than whatever they're doing now
 


Kinky Gerbil

Im The Scatman
NSC Patron
Jul 16, 2003
57,992
hassocks
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abc

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2007
1,080

Interesting anyalyses and sums up why I am so disappointed with Starmer. A real opportunity to stand up for what he actually believes in, to show genuine leadership to both the country and his party and campaign to change views. Like many, I will vote labour to keep to the Tories out but I have little faith that Starmer will deliver anything much different or even that he himself knows what 'different' looks like
 




Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat
this is what we previously did, and it was a lot more successful than whatever they're doing now
We had the Dublin agreement, whilst in the EU, whereby we could return them to France. Johnson 'forgot' to include that in his hastily thrown together Withdrawal Agreement, that nobody read.
 


Thunder Bolt

Silly old bat

Interesting anyalyses and sums up why I am so disappointed with Starmer. A real opportunity to stand up for what he actually believes in, to show genuine leadership to both the country and his party and campaign to change views. Like many, I will vote labour to keep to the Tories out but I have little faith that Starmer will deliver anything much different or even that he himself knows what 'different' looks like
The press would have a field day. He's keeping his powder dry and knows that any change will require patience.
 


A1X

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NSC Patron
Sep 1, 2017
18,133
Deepest, darkest Sussex
Really pisses me off that the Tories so obviously struggle to set the same standards for themselves as they do for others.
It’s unfortunately the nature of the game. Playing the game as a Tory is politics on Easy mode. You can be as crackpot as you like and get lauded for it. The Tory right are no better than the Labour left, yet look at the opprobrium heaped by the press on Abbott and Corbyn compared to Francois and Gullis.
 




rippleman

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2011
4,603

Interesting anyalyses and sums up why I am so disappointed with Starmer. A real opportunity to stand up for what he actually believes in, to show genuine leadership to both the country and his party and campaign to change views. Like many, I will vote labour to keep to the Tories out but I have little faith that Starmer will deliver anything much different or even that he himself knows what 'different' looks like
I was planning similar until Sir Starmer gave the nod to Israel to keep slaughtering Palestinian women and children in Gaza. Earlier this week on R4 he was given several opportunities by the interviewer to call for a ceasefire. He refused. He is standing fast next to Sunak and Biden in refusing to call for an end to the needless slaughter. (And Biden's now wavering; in his latest speech he warned Israel that they were going too far).

The man has no compassion. A cynic might suggest that the fact he, and two-fifths of the Shadow Cabinet, are funded by pro-Israeli lobby groups might have something to do with the stance he is taking.


Not for me Clive
 


Machiavelli

Well-known member
Oct 11, 2013
16,743
Fiveways
I was planning similar until Sir Starmer gave the nod to Israel to keep slaughtering Palestinian women and children in Gaza. Earlier this week on R4 he was given several opportunities by the interviewer to call for a ceasefire. He refused. He is standing fast next to Sunak and Biden in refusing to call for an end to the needless slaughter. (And Biden's now wavering; in his latest speech he warned Israel that they were going too far).

The man has no compassion. A cynic might suggest that the fact he, and two-fifths of the Shadow Cabinet, are funded by pro-Israeli lobby groups might have something to do with the stance he is taking.


Not for me Clive
Fair play. May I ask which constituency you're in, and who you're going to vote for if you don't vote for the Labour MP in your constituency? Also, is it purely an exercise of principle when you vote?
 


Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
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Oct 8, 2003
50,815
Faversham

Interesting anyalyses and sums up why I am so disappointed with Starmer. A real opportunity to stand up for what he actually believes in, to show genuine leadership to both the country and his party and campaign to change views. Like many, I will vote labour to keep to the Tories out but I have little faith that Starmer will deliver anything much different or even that he himself knows what 'different' looks like
If he said he's going to take us back into the EU then Sunk would win the general election.

I am a remainer and labour member. But I don't live in a leftist bubble and do not expect Starmer to deliver my ideal list of baubles because 'no compromise with the electorate' would be necessary to satisfy my desires. And we know what happened when Labour (Militant) tried that last time. I am content that having a centrist labour government beats having a load of mad tory wankers 'running' the show.
 




Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
50,815
Faversham
Fair play. May I ask which constituency you're in, and who you're going to vote for if you don't vote for the Labour MP in your constituency? Also, is it purely an exercise of principle when you vote?
My middle brother is one of those on the left who will use any act of 'betrayal' of pure socialist principle to justify not voting labour.

I shake my head sadly.
 


Machiavelli

Well-known member
Oct 11, 2013
16,743
Fiveways
My middle brother is one of those on the left who will use any act of 'betrayal' of pure socialist principle to justify not voting labour.

I shake my head sadly.
I'm very much of the left, and note that the only options we're supposed to have is either the right or the centre. It's a common trope on NSC's politics thread. But ...
... if your point is about the left and its insistence on purity, then I'm with you. It needs to abandon its purity. It also needs to be somewhat more self-reflective, which very much chimes with the excellent post made by @chickens in post 21,114 here:

 
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Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
50,815
Faversham
I'm very much of the left, and note that the only options we're supposed to have is either the right or the centre. It's a common trope on NSC's politics thread. But ...
... if your point is about the left and its insistence on purity, then I'm with you. It needs to abandon its purity. It also needs to be somewhat more self-reflective, which very much chimes with the excellent post made by @chickens in post 21,114 here:

I am content for labour to start cranking up the rhetoric when the election is announced. Don't peak too soon. Sunk is doing a brilliant job of promoting the labour cause presently. Too many promises made too soon are a hostage to fortune.

I really want this win. More than at any time in my life I want the tories out. We won't persuade swing voters with a relentless load of shouting and pointing out every piece of tory shit-housery again and again. That's what Kinnock did. Good old socialist passion. And the swing voters thought he was a wrong-un. My neighbour at the time said to me "I hate the tories but I'm not voting for that wanker, Kinnock". Nobody wants a repeat of that.
 




abc

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2007
1,080
If he said he's going to take us back into the EU then Sunk would win the general election.

I am a remainer and labour member. But I don't live in a leftist bubble and do not expect Starmer to deliver my ideal list of baubles because 'no compromise with the electorate' would be necessary to satisfy my desires. And we know what happened when Labour (Militant) tried that last time. I am content that having a centrist labour government beats having a load of mad tory wankers 'running' the show.

I don’t want him to offer a list of baubles but principles and leadership should be a pre requisite and he is lacking both
 


Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
50,815
Faversham
I don’t want him to offer a list of baubles but principles and leadership should be a pre requisite and he is lacking both

Whose principles did you have in mind?

Not sure how you imagine he lacks leadership. He's been nothing but surefooted in my estimation, dispatching Corbyn and the likes of Wrong-Bailey without fuss. He has angered 'momentum' and succeeded in doing so without their having any traction whatsoever outside their echo chamber.

And he has the likes of potty and flagshit on here unsure whether to label him red in tooth and claw or 'just the same' as, er, the tories. :facepalm:

I'm happy with that.

If you anticipate that a labour government will disappoint you then stand by to be massively disappointed. I can see Starmer's measured, fair and decent approach driving certain people completely mad. Good.

(By baubles I mean promises - uncosted, unrealistic but deliciously "Socialist" in some eyes).
 
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abc

Well-known member
Jan 6, 2007
1,080
Whose principles did you have in mind?

Not sure how you imagine he lacks leadership. He's been nothing but surefooted in my estimation, dispatching Corbyn and the likes of Wrong-Bailey without fuss. He has angered 'momentum' and succeeded in doing so without their having any traction whatsoever outside their echo chamber.

And he has the likes of potty and flagshit on here unsure whether to label him red in tooth and claw or 'just the same' as, er, the tories. :facepalm:

I'm happy with that.

If you anticipate that a labour government will disappoint you then stand by to be massively disappointed. I can see Starmer's measured, fair and decent approach driving certain people completely mad. Good.

(By baubles I mean promises - uncosted, unrealistic but deliciously "Socialist" in some eyes).

Fair enough and i agree within his party and I won’t be disappointed by a ‘ measured, fair and decent approach’ in the slightest! If that is what he delivers then fantastic and let’s be honest, he is far more likely to do so than anyone in the blue camp.
But I want to be inspired like i and many others were prior to Blair’s first election victory. Blair had clear policies and ideas and was also clear on how he was going to deliver them. I haven’t a scooby on any of this when it comes to Starmer and that I find very disappointing
 


Harry Wilson's tackle

Harry Wilson's Tackle
NSC Patron
Oct 8, 2003
50,815
Faversham
Fair enough and i agree within his party and I won’t be disappointed by a ‘ measured, fair and decent approach’ in the slightest! If that is what he delivers then fantastic and let’s be honest, he is far more likely to do so than anyone in the blue camp.
But I want to be inspired like i and many others were prior to Blair’s first election victory. Blair had clear policies and ideas and was also clear on how he was going to deliver them. I haven’t a scooby on any of this when it comes to Starmer and that I find very disappointing
So do I!

Blair was 'Bambi' before he won. I have more hope for what Starmer may bring.

Let's hope :thumbsup:
 




Pickles

Well-known member
May 5, 2014
1,317
Starmer is appearing to be nothing more than a left wing Tory.
Tbh, I can't knock that stance, as much as it hurts me.
He's playing a political game in order to get government. Deep down, it may hurt, but I can see the game.
It's just so sad that we see this crap from all colours so much.
Why, oh why, can't we have major centralist issues, such as, health, education, utilities, public transport, etc as a United front for everyone's benefit, and then debate our different issues further left or right, for us, the people?
 


jcdenton08

Enemy of the People
NSC Patron
Oct 17, 2008
10,853
Starmer is appearing to be nothing more than a left wing Tory.
Tbh, I can't knock that stance, as much as it hurts me.
He's playing a political game in order to get government. Deep down, it may hurt, but I can see the game.
It's just so sad that we see this crap from all colours so much.
Why, oh why, can't we have major centralist issues, such as, health, education, utilities, public transport, etc as a United front for everyone's benefit, and then debate our different issues further left or right, for us, the people?
Well, previously we couldn’t because Labour’s policy under Miliband and Corbyn was basically to say the opposite of the Tories on every issue, then take a further two sidesteps to the left - alienating not only the centre ground (the right was a write off with left wing candidates anyway) - as well as much of the New Labour stalwarts.

We finally have a Labour candidate who will win. Get into government then enact actual, sensible, policies. No magical thinking; just bringing us back in the centre where the majority of the electorate want to be anyway.
 


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