[Politics] Russia invades Ukraine (24/02/2022)

[thejackal]

Which bit of enough wasn't clear? No more warnings, thread bans are next.

Grow up.

Erm... I refer the honourable member to the answer @Titanic gave some moments ago!

 

[jcdenton08]

Stop. Shitting up. The thread.

 

[driddles]

Well... the thread managed to go 2 years without being completely derailed. Any chance of getting it back to what it was, or is it going to the bear pit?

 

[Eric the meek]

Here's an interesting piece on Russian oil pipelines, following Ukraine's recent success in hitting some ports with drones.

Apologies Raymondo, how did I not see that this post was referring to the attack on Tuapse?

I thought I read the article, but evidently not the first line

 

[seagullwedgee]

There must be some very brave people in the elite special forces operating behind enemy lines. I wonder if they have been trained/coached by the elite forces of other nations, like maybe our own SAS & SBS. Seriously brave people.

 

[JamesAndTheGiantHead]

There must be some very brave people in the elite special forces operating behind enemy lines. I wonder if they have been trained/coached by the elite forces of other nations, like maybe our own SAS & SBS. Seriously brave people.

We’ve definitely got operatives over there giving pointers, if not instructions, on what to hit and how best to hit it. I imagine they’re involved in everything but the actual fighting.

 

[Nobby]

Erm... I refer the honourable member to the answer @Titanic gave some moments ago!

Some people on here have friends and family in Ukraine.

I don't really understand why you remain on this thread, or why you started an argument on it.

You seem to not like the Ukrainians very much.
But you do seem to keep promoting the other side.

Which seems a bit strange, given that the Russians have raped pillaged and murdered their way across an innocent population.

Maybe just lay off and go and find an argument on a less sensitive thread somewhere.

 

[Eric the meek]

Has anyone seen this report on Sky?

'Russian security agents told high-ranking officials to avoid plane, Ukraine claims'

High-ranking Russian officials who were supposed to be on the crashed transport plane did not board at the last minute under orders from Russia's security agency, Ukraine has said.
Andriy Yusov, spokesperson for Ukraine's military intelligence agency, told Radio Free Europe that FSB agents also expelled members of Russia's emergency ministry from the crash site.
"They were not given the opportunity to inspect the site and locate the wreckage," he told RFE.
Only five bodies were delivered to the local morgue in Belgorod, which corresponds with the number of Russian crew members on board, he added.
Russia had claimed 74 people were on board the plane, which erupted in a fireball when it hit the ground in the border region of Belgorod.
The names of those individuals who did not board the aircraft would be provided to an international investigation into the incident, Mr Yusov said.
Sky News cannot independently verify Mr Yusov's comments.

Here's the full report:

Ukraine-Russia war: Latest updates

Follow our Ukraine war live page for all the latest developments and analysis of the conflict. Listen to a Daily podcast episode on the notion of the UK putting troops on the ground in Ukraine as you scroll.

news.sky.com

If true, this was planned and pre-meditated by Russia. They sacrificed their own crew.

 

[The Clamp]

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

If true, this was planned and pre-meditated by Russia. They sacrificed their own crew.

Obviously the truth of this is being investigated, but would you put it past them? With Prighozin they sacrificed Russian civil aircrew. Russian has taken down a civilian airliner.

The moment I hear this news, it didn't pass the smell test of it being Ukraine or an accident. I'm totally open minded to whatever the outcome is, but I know which in my mind is the most probable.

 

[A1X]

I'm not stunned if they've sacrificed their own air crew. I think one thing we've learned about Putin in the last two years beyond any doubt is he has no real care for the lives of anyone, including his own troops. The only time he's lifted a finger to try and save someone's life was his own worthless skin when he thought Wagner were about to roll into Moscow last year.

 

[raymondo]

I don't know if it's just me drifting in and out of following, but it seems like these sorts of insurgent attacks are increasing in frequency?

I don't know how many attacks they try, but it feels like their success rate, and importance of the targets, are increasing.

 

[Triggaaar]

I'm not Russian, but any fair-minded person will tell you that the last line of your post is racist.

 

[raymondo]

Apologies Raymondo, how did I not see that this post was referring to the attack on Tuapse?

I thought I read the article, but evidently not the first line

No worries at all @Eric the meek !! I often post things without being specific about what's in them (lack of time, energy some days). There's a lot of stuff on this thread recently and I don't read it all thoroughly myself.
Have a good evening

 

[Triggaaar]

Obviously the truth of this is being investigated, but would you put it past them? With Prighozin they sacrificed Russian civil aircrew. Russian has taken down a civilian airliner.

That is an outrageous accusations. Prighozin and his comrades were drunk and playing with hand-grenades I tell you!

 

[Eric the meek]

I'm trying to figure something out.
Suppose it turns out that Russia is found guilty of fabricating the whole thing, and the evidence is compelling.

What do they do then? Do they own up? Or do they double down? Find a few bodies to lay around the crash site? Plant false ID on them?
Or didn't they think that far ahead?

 

[peterward]

Igor Girkin shot down a passenger jet, then insulted Putin. Which one put him in jail?

Igor Girkin escaped justice for downing flight MH17 but goes to jail after criticising Russia's leader.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Triggaaar]

I'm trying to figure something out.
Suppose it turns out that Russia is found guilty of fabricating the whole thing, and the evidence is compelling.

What do they do then? Do they own up? Or do they double down? Find a few bodies to lay around the crash site? Plant false ID on them?

Seriously? This is an easy one to answer.

You're asking what Russia does when we find out they're lying - they do what they always do - they just keep lying.

They lie about literally everything. They said they'd protect Ukraine after Ukraine gave up their nukes. They said they wouldn't invade. They said it wasn't a war. They said it was to remove Nazis. They said Prigozhin blew himself up with grenades. They say that everyone jumps out of windows, and that all their factories blow up because of cigarettes. They say that 98% of people in occupied Ukraine voted to join Russia.

They know we know they're lying about everything, but they just keep lying. It makes zero difference if it can be proved that they're lying about the aircraft, they will say what they want, and Russian news will say what they want it to say.

 

[raymondo]

I'm trying to figure something out.
Suppose it turns out that Russia is found guilty of fabricating the whole thing, and the evidence is compelling.

What do they do then? Do they own up? Or do they double down? Find a few bodies to lay around the crash site? Plant false ID on them?
Or didn't they think that far ahead?

They will keep lying (I know you know). Their press will lie for them. Most Russians will probably believe the lie. Those that don't will probably pretend they believe it. The relatives of the murdered aircrew will go on TV to denounce evil Ukraine and western weapons, and beg more volunteers to join their army.

 

[Eric the meek]

Seriously? This is an easy one to answer.

You're asking what Russia does when we find out they're lying - they do what they always do - they just keep lying.

They lie about literally everything. They said they'd protect Ukraine after Ukraine gave up their nukes. They said they wouldn't invade. They said it wasn't a war. They said it was to remove Nazis. They said Prigozhin blew himself up with grenades. They say that everyone jumps out of windows, and that all their factories blow up because of cigarettes. They say that 98% of people in occupied Ukraine voted to join Russia.

They know we know they're lying about everything, but they just keep lying. It makes zero difference if it can be proved that they're lying about the aircraft, they will say what they want, and Russian news will say what they want it to say.

Yes, all of that. It would be a huge surprise if they owned up.

But if/when they - eventually - stop lying, it could be a real watershed moment, a moment when we know they are on a different path.

I watched a video a few weeks ago, and on it, I learned the origin of the term 'political correctness'. It's Russian. And the meaning is quite different from the meaning we know here in the UK.

Something in Russia, can be correct (factual), but not politically correct (i.e. it is not acceptable to those in power).

'But the plane was carrying missiles, not POWs'.
'Ah, comrade, that may be correct, but it is not - politically - correct.'

When people stop being politically correct in Russia, we will know the end of the war and the regime are in sight.