Rotherham Child Rape Scandal

[keaton]

Wasn't it the BNP who highlighted this issue.
For all the wrong that BNP are, at least someone someone had the guts to tell it how it was. If they hadn't mentioned it we probably wouldn't even of heard of it and this disgusting behaviour would still be going on. At least young women can be warned about these sorts of things that go on, and be extra vigilent when going out.

How did the BNP highlight the issue?

 

[Buzzer]

The root cause is not race....

You're making general points (rape culture in the UK) and applying them to specific cases (Rotherham) and I don't think that's necessarily correct. In this particular case it does appear that race and/or culture did play a significant part in it. Professor Alex Jay made that quite clear in his report and this article by avowedly feminist muslim Yasmin Alibhai-Brown makes a big point of saying that in many Asian communities their attitude is disgusting (her words).

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...ts-misogyny-and-double-standards-9692497.html

Take this snippet:

I partly blame their families and communities. Too many Asian mothers spoil their boys, undervalue their girls, and demean their daughters-in-law. Within some British Asian circles, the West is considered degenerate and immoral. So it’s OK to take their girls and ruin them further..

and to answer your point later that Asian girls were also targeted:

What then, if white Britons tacitly supported and excused the criminals? Well, comes the answer, that's not the same thing. But it is, it is. I tell them about at least three young Asian girls who have thus been entrapped and exploited. “That is their fault. They have become English, so of course these things happen to them.”

Ms Alibhai-Brown thinks the root cause in Rotherham WAS race/culture. Denying that fact only plays further into the hands of racists who will exploit this.

 

[London Irish]

Wasn't it the BNP who highlighted this issue.
For all the wrong that BNP are, at least someone someone had the guts to tell it how it was. If they hadn't mentioned it we probably wouldn't even of heard of it and this disgusting behaviour would still be going on. At least young women can be warned about these sorts of things that go on, and be extra vigilent when going out.

And here's someone openly cheerleading the BNP.

Not even stopping to pass go via the EDL - but straight to the vile knuckledragging fascists themselves

 

[carlzeiss]

Wasn't it the BNP who highlighted this issue.
For all the wrong that BNP are, at least someone someone had the guts to tell it how it was. If they hadn't mentioned it we probably wouldn't even of heard of it and this disgusting behaviour would still be going on. At least young women can be warned about these sorts of things that go on, and be extra vigilent when going out.

News
UK news

6.30pm
BNP leader 'warned of multiracial hell hole'

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Press Association
theguardian.com, Tuesday 17 January 2006 18.40 GMT


The leader of the British National party, Nick Griffin, told a crowd that white society had turned into a multiracial hell hole, a court heard today.

Mr Griffin claimed that Asian Muslims were trying to conquer the UK, Leeds crown court heard. In a videotape shown to the court, the BNP leader described Islam as a "wicked, vicious faith".

He also allegedly said in one speech that young Asian men were "seducing and raping white girls in this town right now".

The 45-year-old BNP leader and fellow party activist Mark Collett, 24, face a series of race hate charges.

The charges relate to six speeches the two men made last year in towns in West Yorkshire which were covertly filmed by an undercover BBC reporter.

Opening the prosecution's case, Rodney Jameson QC said that both of the accused had tried to win BNP votes by creating a "nightmare vision" of Asians carrying out attacks on white people.

Mr Jameson said: "The prosecution allege that each of the six speeches ... included words which were threatening, abusive and insulting towards, in particular, people of Asian ethnicity. Such words were used with the intention of stirring up racial hatred."

The jury heard that both men had addressed a crowd at the Reservoir Tavern in Keighley on January 19 2004.

The QC said Mr Griffin read statistics to the crowd which said that the white population of Bradford was just 1%, and that it was statistically 0% in Keighley.

In the videotape shown to the jury, Mr Griffin makes a range of accusations about gangs of Muslims involved in a "rape wave" in the West Yorkshire town.

He bemoans what he sees as the lack of police and government action, adding: "Now that sentence could get me seven years in prison."

He goes on: "If they get a non-Muslim girl and they get her pregnant, then her community doesn't want her, and the child generally grows up a Muslim and that's the way this wicked, vicious faith has expanded from a handful of cranky lunatics about 1,300 years ago to it's now sweeping country after country before it, all over the world."

Reading excerpts from the speeches, Mr Jameson said Mr Griffin said white society had turned into a multiracial hell-hole and urged the crowd to vote BNP in order to ensure "the British people really realise the evil of what these people have done to our country".

Referring to a recent attack in the area, Mr Jameson said Mr Griffin said: "The *******s that are in that gang, they are in prison so the public think it's all over. Well it's not. Because there's more of them.

"The police force and elected governors haven't done a damn thing about it. Their good book [the Koran] tells them that that's acceptable. If you doubt it, go and buy a copy and you will find verse after verse and you can take any woman you want as long as it's not Muslim women."

Mr Jameson said Mr Griffin's speech then turned to allegations of violence by Asian Muslims against whites. The QC said Mr Griffin said: "These 18, 19, and 25-year-old Asian Muslims are seducing and raping white girls in this town right now."

The court heard Mr Collett addressed the gathering on the same evening. Mr Collett allegedly said: "Let's show these ethnics the door in 2004."

During the speech, Mr Collett allegedly said: "In the space of a week there's always at least two rapes of girls, white girls between the ages of 15 and 16, by gangs of Asians."

In another speech on March 10 2004 at a pub in Pudsey, Leeds, Mr Collett allegedly claimed that young Muslim boys were being trained to use AK47s and Asians were "spilling out" from Bradford to Leeds, "because of the rate they breed".

Mr Jameson said the defendants used the technique of building fear and resentment of Asian people by referring to rapes and muggings.

Mr Jameson said that some of Mr Griffin's remarks may be thought of by some as "perfectly legitimate political comment". But the barrister added: "No society can permit disapproval of another race to be expressed in such strong terms that hatred be stirred up against people on the basis of race or ethnicity."

The QC insisted that the case was not about restricting freedom of expression and said the UK's laws in this area were "hardly onerous".

Mr Jameson told the jury of eight men and four women that BBC reporter Jason Gwynne obtained footage of the speeches after he joined the BNP in Bradford in December 2003.

He spent six months attending meetings and other events.

Mr Jameson said that West Yorkshire police began an investigation into the contents of the documentary the day after it was broadcast on July 15 2004.

Mr Griffin faces two charges of using words intended to stir up racial hatred and two alternative charges of using words likely to stir up racial hatred. Mr Collett faces four charges of the first offence and four of the alternative.

Mr Griffin, of Llanerfyl, Powys, and Mr Collett, of Rothley, Leicestershire, both deny the charges.

Yesterday some 600 rival protesters massed outside the courthouse; today there were only a handful of protesters.

The trial continues.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

You see, it's things like this that make me make the sort of assumption you seemed to be offended by.

I think you have the wrong end of a long stick that for some reason you want to use to beat me with. I am not offended - I just rather assumed there are some crossed wires.

Should we stop asian doctors from treating white girls? Should we stop asian teachers from working in schools where there are white girls? Should we stop asian guys from serving any white girls at any given supermarket/fast food restaurant?

Is clearly complete tosh. You are tieing yourself in knots for quite a simple scenario. I wonder if it is that type of thinking that let to the authorities not properly investigate for the fear of being labelled racist.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

News
UK news

6.30pm
BNP leader 'warned of multiracial hell hole'

Share 0
inShare0
Email

Press Association
theguardian.com, Tuesday 17 January 2006 18.40 GMT


The leader of the British National party, Nick Griffin, told a crowd that white society had turned into a multiracial hell hole, a court heard today.

Mr Griffin claimed that Asian Muslims were trying to conquer the UK, Leeds crown court heard. In a videotape shown to the court, the BNP leader described Islam as a "wicked, vicious faith".

He also allegedly said in one speech that young Asian men were "seducing and raping white girls in this town right now".

The 45-year-old BNP leader and fellow party activist Mark Collett, 24, face a series of race hate charges.

The charges relate to six speeches the two men made last year in towns in West Yorkshire which were covertly filmed by an undercover BBC reporter.

Opening the prosecution's case, Rodney Jameson QC said that both of the accused had tried to win BNP votes by creating a "nightmare vision" of Asians carrying out attacks on white people.

Mr Jameson said: "The prosecution allege that each of the six speeches ... included words which were threatening, abusive and insulting towards, in particular, people of Asian ethnicity. Such words were used with the intention of stirring up racial hatred."

The jury heard that both men had addressed a crowd at the Reservoir Tavern in Keighley on January 19 2004.

The QC said Mr Griffin read statistics to the crowd which said that the white population of Bradford was just 1%, and that it was statistically 0% in Keighley.

In the videotape shown to the jury, Mr Griffin makes a range of accusations about gangs of Muslims involved in a "rape wave" in the West Yorkshire town.

He bemoans what he sees as the lack of police and government action, adding: "Now that sentence could get me seven years in prison."

He goes on: "If they get a non-Muslim girl and they get her pregnant, then her community doesn't want her, and the child generally grows up a Muslim and that's the way this wicked, vicious faith has expanded from a handful of cranky lunatics about 1,300 years ago to it's now sweeping country after country before it, all over the world."

Reading excerpts from the speeches, Mr Jameson said Mr Griffin said white society had turned into a multiracial hell-hole and urged the crowd to vote BNP in order to ensure "the British people really realise the evil of what these people have done to our country".

Referring to a recent attack in the area, Mr Jameson said Mr Griffin said: "The *******s that are in that gang, they are in prison so the public think it's all over. Well it's not. Because there's more of them.

"The police force and elected governors haven't done a damn thing about it. Their good book [the Koran] tells them that that's acceptable. If you doubt it, go and buy a copy and you will find verse after verse and you can take any woman you want as long as it's not Muslim women."

Mr Jameson said Mr Griffin's speech then turned to allegations of violence by Asian Muslims against whites. The QC said Mr Griffin said: "These 18, 19, and 25-year-old Asian Muslims are seducing and raping white girls in this town right now."

The court heard Mr Collett addressed the gathering on the same evening. Mr Collett allegedly said: "Let's show these ethnics the door in 2004."

During the speech, Mr Collett allegedly said: "In the space of a week there's always at least two rapes of girls, white girls between the ages of 15 and 16, by gangs of Asians."

In another speech on March 10 2004 at a pub in Pudsey, Leeds, Mr Collett allegedly claimed that young Muslim boys were being trained to use AK47s and Asians were "spilling out" from Bradford to Leeds, "because of the rate they breed".

Mr Jameson said the defendants used the technique of building fear and resentment of Asian people by referring to rapes and muggings.

Mr Jameson said that some of Mr Griffin's remarks may be thought of by some as "perfectly legitimate political comment". But the barrister added: "No society can permit disapproval of another race to be expressed in such strong terms that hatred be stirred up against people on the basis of race or ethnicity."

The QC insisted that the case was not about restricting freedom of expression and said the UK's laws in this area were "hardly onerous".

Mr Jameson told the jury of eight men and four women that BBC reporter Jason Gwynne obtained footage of the speeches after he joined the BNP in Bradford in December 2003.

He spent six months attending meetings and other events.

Mr Jameson said that West Yorkshire police began an investigation into the contents of the documentary the day after it was broadcast on July 15 2004.

Mr Griffin faces two charges of using words intended to stir up racial hatred and two alternative charges of using words likely to stir up racial hatred. Mr Collett faces four charges of the first offence and four of the alternative.

Mr Griffin, of Llanerfyl, Powys, and Mr Collett, of Rothley, Leicestershire, both deny the charges.

Yesterday some 600 rival protesters massed outside the courthouse; today there were only a handful of protesters.

The trial continues.

There your are, all the way back to 2006, and its taken 8 years to get to this stage where people speak openly about it. Why did it take so long for the authorities to deal with it.

 

[spring hall convert]

This thread is predicatably depressing and mostly spectacularly missing the point.

How many more sections of society are going to be implicated in this type of behaviour before all of us as reasonable people actually stand together and put pressure on the major institutions of this country to take historical/ current institutionalised child absue by any creed, colour or social class seriously?

I just get a feeling that most of this thread is more concerned with vilifying Islam rather than protecting children. Yes, the perpatrators in this case were muslims but this is a tiny part of a UK wide jigsaw that is forming that at best our authorities turn a blind eye to child abuse and at worst are complicit in it. Google Kincora, Elm House, Hautte De La Varenne as well as considering Rochdale and Rotherham. This is far from a problem perpetrated predominantly by muslim fundamentalists, you'd be stupid to think otherwise.

 

[spring hall convert]

There your are, all the way back to 2006, and its taken 8 years to get to this stage where people speak openly about it. Why did it take so long for the authorities to deal with it.

People were calling Saville a paedophile in the late 70's. Our institutions do not take child abuse seriously. It's as simple as that.

 

[User removed 4]

Ha ha, well I walked into that.

It is a complicated issue and it seems to encourage labels to be bandied around that are not particularly helpful - as demonstrated in this thread, and you can easily end up being branded Enoch Powell or Neville Chamberlain.

I think you make a valid observation - in my defence I think the conversation has moved on over the years, and so have a lot of people's understanding of the issues and their consequences. Racists still need to be challenged, but it also needs to be possible to have an adult conversation and to challenge what is happening in the country without being labelled a racist. Also see this thread.

Anyway I think the expression is "when you are in a hole .......".

To be fair that's a good answer and you've gone up in my estimation

 

[Acker79]

I think you have the wrong end of a long stick that for some reason you want to use to beat me with. I am not offended - I just rather assumed there are some crossed wires.

Great, glad you weren't offended by it. But you still seem to not be acknowledging the distinction I am making in what seems to me to be a very clear way.

Is clearly complete tosh. You are tieing yourself in knots for quite a simple scenario. I wonder if it is that type of thinking that let to the authorities not properly investigate for the fear of being labelled racist.

You seem to be supporting the sentiment "stop asian guys associating with white girls (children)". Highlighting how such a sentiment has far reaching applications is not tosh. Nor is it tying myself in knots.

That you continue to ignore the very simple distinction between "asian guys" and "paedophiles/suspicious people who happen to be asian guys" makes me think there's no point in continuing the discussion with you.

 

[Buzzer]

This thread is predicatably depressing and mostly spectacularly missing the point.

How many more sections of society are going to be implicated in this type of behaviour before all of us as reasonable people actually stand together and put pressure on the major institutions of this country to take historical/ current institutionalised child absue by any creed, colour or social class seriously?

I just get a feeling that most of this thread is more concerned with vilifying Islam rather than protecting children. Yes, the perpatrators in this case were muslims but this is a tiny part of a UK wide jigsaw that is forming that at best our authorities turn a blind eye to child abuse and at worst are complicit in it. Google Kincora, Elm House, Hautte De La Varenne as well as considering Rochdale and Rotherham. This is far from a problem perpetrated predominantly by muslim fundamentalists, you'd be stupid to think otherwise.

Yes, there is an appalling attitude to child abuse in this country and Rotherham is only a very small part of that but the only thing that links the abuses at Hautte De La Garenne with Rotherham is the police ineptitude in investigating. There's no single panacea that you can apply universally, they have to be approached and dealt with differently because the root causes are different. The major cause with Rotherham appears to be race/culture. You can't simply dismiss this because of a generally wider problem.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

You seem to be supporting the sentiment "stop asian guys associating with white girls (children)".

Well I am not. I do not know where you got that idea (don't bother going through my posts - please).

That you continue to ignore the very simple distinction between "asian guys" and "paedophiles/suspicious people who happen to be asian guys" makes me think there's no point in continuing the discussion with you.

Agreed. Trust me - I understand the distinction.

 

[London Irish]

You're making general points (rape culture in the UK) and applying them to specific cases (Rotherham) and I don't think that's necessarily correct. In this particular case it does appear that race and/or culture did play a significant part in it. Professor Alex Jay made that quite clear in his report and this article by avowedly feminist muslim Yasmin Alibhai-Brown makes a big point of saying that in many Asian communities their attitude is disgusting (her words).

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...ts-misogyny-and-double-standards-9692497.html

Take this snippet:

I partly blame their families and communities. Too many Asian mothers spoil their boys, undervalue their girls, and demean their daughters-in-law. Within some British Asian circles, the West is considered degenerate and immoral. So it’s OK to take their girls and ruin them further..

and to answer your point later that Asian girls were also targeted:

What then, if white Britons tacitly supported and excused the criminals? Well, comes the answer, that's not the same thing. But it is, it is. I tell them about at least three young Asian girls who have thus been entrapped and exploited. “That is their fault. They have become English, so of course these things happen to them.”

Ms Alibhai-Brown thinks the root cause in Rotherham WAS race/culture. Denying that fact only plays further into the hands of racists who will exploit this.

Won't surprise you to know I'm a big fan of YA-B and thought her article in the Indy was great!

I don't know how useful a big argument about whether race was the primary or secondary, aggravating cause because it doesn't affect your real-world politics, bigotry must be fought in all cases - but it's telling the two quotes you have picked:

"many Asian mothers spoil their boys, undervalue their girls...tt’s OK to take their girls and ruin them further" - this is a point Y A-B is making about misogyny and how women transmit misogny

"I tell them about at least three young Asian girls who have thus been entrapped and exploited. That is their fault. They have become English, so of course these things happen to them" - now the crucial thing here is what their definition of "English" is. Do you think these Asian mums are thinking "English" is Cara Delevingne or Boris's sister here? Of course not - this is a code word for "chavs" "poor white trash" - the overriding point of Y A-B here is exposing deeply snobbish, classist attitudes within Asian communities.

So even in the two quotes you mention, hatred of the "underclass" working class and misogyny are more telling factors than race.

Perhaps that's why the Indy headlined Y A-B's piece "The Rotherham child abuse scandal is a tale of apologists, misogyny and double standards"

But all power to Y A-B - as I argued earlier, it will be trenchant and powerful voices like hers that finally smash the patriachal reactionary male leaderships of immigrant communities.

This is not an issue specific to Muslims, I've watched for years brave Irish feminists slug it out for years with the Catholic bigots that sit on their community, it's no surprise to me other communities have the same difficult battles. Let's support the feminists like Y A-B and as you correctly state, be aware that the racists are everywhere right now waiting to pounce and exploit..

 

[spring hall convert]

Yes, there is an appalling attitude to child abuse in this country and Rotherham is only a very small part of that but the only thing that links the abuses at Hautte De La Garenne with Rotherham is the police ineptitude in investigating. There's no single panacea that you can apply universally, they have to be approached and dealt with differently because the root causes are different.

Fair point on the root causes but we have zero chance if the institutions tasked with protecting children won't do their job properly.

For instance, in this case we are discussing, I find the accusation that people wouldn't act out of some fear of being seen as motivated by racial bias staggering. This isn't a fiddled tax return we're talking about, this is child abuse. The blind eyers are as disgusting as the perpetrators in my eyes.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

To be fair that's a good answer and you've gone up in my estimation

I will take time now to consider whether that is a good thing.

 

[Buzzer]

So even in the two quotes you mention, hatred of the "underclass" working class and misogyny are more telling factors than race.

I disagree. The quotes are quite attacking specifically Asian misogyny and Asian contempt for British culture.

This is not an issue specific to Muslims

This issue IS specific to muslims. Y A-B's whole article is about them and addressed to them.

 

[Buzzer]

Fair point on the root causes but we have zero chance if the institutions tasked with protecting children won't do their job properly.

For instance, in this case we are discussing, I find the accusation that people wouldn't act out of some fear of being seen as motivated by racial bias staggering. This isn't a fiddled tax return we're talking about, this is child abuse. The blind eyers are as disgusting as the perpetrators in my eyes.

Agreed. And compare and contrast these institutions even now, South Yorkshire police leaked the raid on Cliff Richard's house whereas they tried every trick in the book to stop the Sunday Times reporting about the Rotherham scandal. Even now they're putting self-interest ahead of the welfare of children.

 

[keaton]

I think it would make more sense to make a criminal offence to be policeman in Yorkshire

 

[spring hall convert]

Agreed. And compare and contrast these institutions even now, South Yorkshire police leaked the raid on Cliff Richard's house whereas they tried every trick in the book to stop the Sunday Times reporting about the Rotherham scandal. Even now they're putting self-interest ahead of the welfare of children.

They are taking over from the Met as the most discredited police force in the country. Why aren't the British people as a populace angrier about the child abuse question in general? It seems that a significant section of the population don't want to hear about it and quite frankly that attitude is terrifying.

 

[London Irish]

Yes, the perpatrators in this case were muslims but this is a tiny part of a UK wide jigsaw that is forming that at best our authorities turn a blind eye to child abuse and at worst are complicit in it. Google Kincora, Elm House, Hautte De La Varenne as well as considering Rochdale and Rotherham. This is far from a problem perpetrated predominantly by muslim fundamentalists, you'd be stupid to think otherwise.

Child abuse revelations have been a tragic part of British history for as long as anyone can remember. Because no one gives a shit about the kids of the underclass - they're chavs, scum, trash, feral - you can do anything to them and no one cares