Sajerz
Member
Its even worse if you don't have an official ref eg the other teams manager/parent
Respect for Referees
- Thread starter SeagullRic
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SeagullRic
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- #42
True, the Parent or Manager then receives even more abuse, this time fuelled by the idea that they are cheating.
They often are though, of course.
Sajerz
Member
seagullric Whats your real name by the way? because I was talking to Sam and Jack today and they said they dont know you so im quessing your name isn't ric
SeagullRic
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- #46
Mitchel does yes. I am Eric Wedge-Bull. That should answer your question as well tominho.
Hi Eric! How's your leg? Were Ellis Hull, Jack Zicrow and Billy Geard playing for Melford? (All ex-Withdean as you know like yourself)
SeagullRic
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- #48
Jack and Bill were yeh. Bill smashed it right at my nuts, which meant i had to recover for a couple of minutes on the touchline. Brovion, what is your real name?
My leg is fine now thanks
I'm Tim, Joe's dad. I agree with your original point about respect for refs. As you know I've done it and run the line (as has your Dad!) and it's a thankless task. When I did it I was always slightly biased AGAINST Withdean (i.e. I'd always give 50-50s to the other side) to try and counter any claims of favouritism. I've reffed a couple of times this year and it's actually been alright - but it has been against teams that play in the right spirit.
SeagullRic
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- #50
Hi Tim
The think I don't like is the fact that you feel the need to give 50-50s against your side, to counter any possible cheating accusations. Most people who run the line (including my Dad) do the same thing. Although you could never fully stop the other team from calling you a cheat, if some respect was taught from an early age, then I think more younger players would start to understand that when an official makes what they think is a mistake, its normally not deliberate. From what I can gather, the team Joe plays for now aren't the nicest bunch of people you'll ever meet (with regards their conduct on the pitch)
Start sending Terry, Rooney etc off for abusing the refs and some people might notice.
SeagullRic
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- #52
Correct.
Referees are ambitious, and those in the Prem are scared to upset the managers for fear of being marked down.
This is also true in the feeder leagues, so refs turn a blind eye to abuse, and then the poor kid who is a bit shit at football but loves the game, so decides to have a go at refereeing is given a hard time by players at park level because it permeates the whole game.
I reffed for a number of years, and like many others quit because of the politics, abuse and paperwork.
IF however, you threaten to have their exam marks 'reviewed' by your colleagues if they abuse you, I find that most players at University level are no problem at all.
This is also true in the feeder leagues, so refs turn a blind eye to abuse, and then the poor kid who is a bit shit at football but loves the game, so decides to have a go at refereeing is given a hard time by players at park level because it permeates the whole game.
I reffed for a number of years, and like many others quit because of the politics, abuse and paperwork.
IF however, you threaten to have their exam marks 'reviewed' by your colleagues if they abuse you, I find that most players at University level are no problem at all.
Captain Haddock
New member
On the subject of only captains approaching the refs, Barnet are indeed the team that have experimented with this in League 2 this season, under manager Paul Fairclough's direction and by all accounts it's a resounding success
Can't remember the figures I heard quoted but I think they've only had one red card (not for dissent) and a handful of yellows.
Definately will improve the situation I reckon (and unlike some other good ideas, may well get a wider and official trial through the leagues soon)
Can't remember the figures I heard quoted but I think they've only had one red card (not for dissent) and a handful of yellows.
Definately will improve the situation I reckon (and unlike some other good ideas, may well get a wider and official trial through the leagues soon)
Mr Burns
New member
I haven't read the who thread, but this is something I ague about all the time.
The problem has been created by one set of people. Referees. Period.
You can't blame the players, as its a sport, and in any sport, you do what you can to win. If the refs are not strong enough to stand up to the players, then that is the problem.
All this rubbish about players abusing refs is bullshit. If a player swears on the pitch, not at anyone, just swears, the rules require that player to be sent off.
Refs dont do it. In the county league I've seen players swear in frustation and be sent off. I also seen players call referees a "f***ing ****" and get told to calm down. he bottom line is if a player swear at an official, they refs need to play by the rules and send that player off. Only when ALL refs follow the laws of the game will the problem disapear.
The FA need to find their bollocks on this issue as well, as they are the ones that appoint these silly bastards to ref games. The need to root out the poor refs (most of them) and start again.
I'd love to hear a referees view on this..........
Mr Burns
New member
Again, I don't like all these trails and schemes the FA roll out.
Simply put, get the referees to apply the laws of the game and the problem will disapear over the course of a few games.
Ideally unqualified dads (like me) shouldn't be refereeing matches so there's always going to be some bias, unconcious or not. With regard to Joe's team discipline-wise they're not that bad at all - and the manager is not one of those 'win at all costs' arseholes, he just wants everyone to enjoy themselves. There are a couple of hotheads but they just need telling firmly what they can't do; even I haven't had any problems reffing them!
The bottom line though is you are right about the respect - it should be taught at an early age. We've both seen times when the ref has been abused by the parents and coaches and young players naturally pick up on it.
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Postman Pat
Well-known member
Mr B, I am an ex-ref who gave up because of the abuse and also that I was no longer enjoying the game. My final game was Whitehawk Vets at Stanmer Park, when 4/5 burly 'gentlemen' are not being very polite, are taking no notice and generally being intimidating it's not easy to 'stand up to them' bear in mind the ref is usually on thier own, on a council pitch and the safety of their car is too far away.
I have heard stories about ref's being beaten up, their cars being vandalised and being followed home. It's not all about what happens on the pitch. As these are public parks there is nothing to stop a banned player turning up the following week and having another go.
You are correct that players will know what ref's can be intimidated and undermined, by the same token a ref will go to a game having a good idea how each team will behave, I used to try and adjust my behavior accordingly, but it's not that easy if you fear for your health!
Most ref's are at the park level because that's where the quality determines they are, if they get rid of the 'poor' ones there will be virtually none left and the clubs will have to ref themselves. If we have no refs and no rules, where would we be...... France!
Mr Burns
New member
With all due respect and without being rude, you probably made the correct desicion to quit, because if your not prepared to apply the laws of the game, for whatever reason,then you shouldn't put yourself in that position.
We all know there are some dickheads playing park football, but you will find most of their team mates think there dickheads to, and would stop any attacks on refs. If a ref is attacked, then you report it to the police. These people are rooted out and banned, but I imagine most 'attacks' are provoked by attiudes of some refs, who given a small amount of authority, turn into little hitlers. We've all seen them, and these refs need rooting out of the game, as much as idiots who would attack someone.
But if as a ref you accepted the abuse, then you are probably better off out of it, for your own good and the good of the game.
SurreySeagulls
Well-known member
OK - For a start you are talking nonsense. How is it that you want to lay the blame soley at Refs. Have you ever taken the course? Have you every refereed a game? Have you ever taken the time to see what a Ref has to put up with? I doubt it
Anyway, I am a level 5 ref going for promotion to level 4. So a reasonable standard. I have done my fair share of kids games (now do supply league matches) and to be honest it is mostly the parents that let the kids down. Refs will take firm action but if you sent a player off for swearing then you would have no players left to officiate with. It is not in the laws of the game to dismiss a player from the field of play just for swearing.
One kids game I did I abandoned due to a parent. You will find most gobby parents are trying to play the game through their son/daughter. They are frustrated players at best. Anyway, this parent kept telling his son to run faster, tackle harder etc but kept adding in the odd swear word to encourage him!!! I asked the parent to try and use more appropriate words to encourage his son. The swearing stopped for 5 minutes then carried on.
At the next break in play I asked the parent once again to refrain from swearing as would he like his son to be sworn at on the street, he replied with a firm no, so I aksed him why was it different on the football pitch, he didn't have an answer!!! I then advised him that if he continued to swear that I would pick the ball up and call off the game and then ask the kids to ask him why the game was abandoned.
The game ran like clock work for the next 10 minutes, the parent was quiet but then he just lept into a torrent of abuse at his own son for missing a tackle and letting the opposition score. This was the straw that broke the camels back. I picked the ball up advised both managers why the game was being abandoned and went to the parent concerned and asked him to advise the kids why they couldn't play football. He went sheepish and walked away without having the guts to own up to the kids. My match report went in and I left it for the County to deal with. I think you will find the County Associations deal heavily with clubs, parents, players. It is more the FA that don't deal harshly enough.
One thing to remember is that every ref whilst applying the laws of the game will also interpret them slightly differently as each of us have a different tollerence level to foul, abusive or insulting langauge or actions plus what is considered a cautionable tackle.
What are your stats to prove that most refs are poor? Yes there are some shocking refs but most will be up to the standard of the league they ref in. I agree the FA need to do more and are gutless at the top as to be honest they do not run the game anymore it is driven by the Premier League Clubs.
I hope I have answred your points and you think my example of abuse was handled within the laws of the game. I still ref and enjoy it and yes I get shouted at but it is how you deal with it that counts and not every player that swears is sayign it with intent.