Man Utd & Moyes getting BOOED

[Bold Seagull]

The biggest question mark over Moyes right night is Fellaini - Barkley.

Moyes would have seen Barkley from 11 years old, and should have been fully aware of his development before he left. Instead of going for Barkley, he buys Fellaini for an absurd amount, Martinez comes in, spots that Barkley is the star for his team straight away, and a 'new' Wayne Rooney is discovered. What does this say about Moyes' judgement at this point? Why on earth was Moyes not prying Barkley from Everton and making him a summer priority for his new club??

Perhaps it's nothing to do with Moyes, perhaps ManUtd is just a high profile money laundering racket for the Glazers. How else does one explain:
Fellaini £27m
Kagawa £12m
Zaha £15m
Young £17m
Smalling £10m
Bebe £7m
Tosic £5m
Anderson £15m

 

[gordonchas]

So what you are saying is that 4th (and perhaps 3rd) spot is more readily available in Spain than it is here. That doesn't make it more competitive than the Premier League.

It is still a fact that 1st and 2nd have been occupied by Barca and RM for 8 of the last 9 seasons (Villareal finished 2nd in 2008). In England, in that same time frame, 1st and 2nd have been occupied by 5 different clubs.

I am not saying the league title race is not totally dominated by two super-wealthy clubs in Spain, that's why anyone with any interest in it is hoping that Atletico are able to keep up their challenge to the end of the season.

What I am trying to say, maybe not very well, is that the CL places are practically sewn-up by the same teams in England. So whereas the league title is (usually) a 2-team competition in Spain, it is (usually) at best a 3-team competition in England. I don't see how that makes the Premier League substantially more competitive.

On the other hand, the European and relegation places in Spain are usually contested by far more sides than they are in England, so the majority of the rest of the league is not only more competitive, it affords the opportunity of competing in Europe (and therefore battling for the crumbs that fall from the table of the mighty) to a wider variety of clubs (I doubt that Real Sociedad supporters thought they would be playing in the Champions League just five years after Chris Coleman had them 10th in the Spanish 2nd Division).

 

[Mellotron]

In the EPL, 12 points separates the top eight sides. In Spain, 12 points covers just the first three. That's what makes it more competitive in my opinion. Sure, we can all predict what teams will be at the top end of the EPL, but its competitiveness comes from the fact there are seven good teams who can a) all beat each other b) finish in the top four and c) have some sort of shot at winning the league. In Spain, it's just a case of which order the big two finish in (along with Atletico this year) and the rest trailing 20 points behind. The fact Sociedad can come from the second division to the Champions League in five years shows it's a weak league, not a hard one. La Liga is not competitive or healthy in my opinion and Spain is just a more sophisticated Scotland when it comes to domestic football.

All of this. Anyone in La Liga can finish third, which suggests it's a pretty shit league bar the top two.

 

[vegster]

The biggest question mark over Moyes right night is Fellaini - Barkley.

Moyes would have seen Barkley from 11 years old, and should have been fully aware of his development before he left. Instead of going for Barkley, he buys Fellaini for an absurd amount, Martinez comes in, spots that Barkley is the star for his team straight away, and a 'new' Wayne Rooney is discovered. What does this say about Moyes' judgement at this point? Why on earth was Moyes not prying Barkley from Everton and making him a summer priority for his new club??

Perhaps it's nothing to do with Moyes, perhaps ManUtd is just a high profile money laundering racket for the Glazers. How else does one explain:
Fellaini £27m
Kagawa £12m
Zaha £15m
Young £17m
Smalling £10m
Bebe £7m
Tosic £5m
Anderson £15m

Indeed, If Moyes had moved fast before Barkley had a run of games he could have got him cheap as chips. He paid over the odds for Fellaini and now if he wants Barkley his price will have gone through the roof.

 

[Northstandite]

A bit of both actually. Liverpool are HEAVILY reliant on Louis Suarez. He only has to pick up an injury or sending off and I think they will drop points. Also, Liverpool are a bit of a flat track bully. They are doing of good job of beating everyone outside the top 6 but struggle against teams they consider their piers. They also still have to go to Old Trafford, where I fancy them to get turned over. Man Utd are not the force they once were, but are still a decent side. They have been quite unlucky in some games I think. As much as I was pleased to see Spuz turn them over yesterday (especially as Spuz have been the victims of scandalous decisions at Man Utd down the years), they were very unlucky not to draw despite being off colour. Moyes was absolutely right - the Spurs keeper should have gone AND given away a penalty in the last few minutes.

BTW, I think Arsenal will finish third, and will finish around 5 points behind the other two. Either Chelsea or Man City will win it, IMO.

Isn't it Arsenal who are the flat track bullies? Sky looked at their record against ManU, ManC and Chelsea, which showed an appalling points return and with very rare victories, against those 3 other clubs with a similarly high player payroll cost (being an indicator of squad size and quality).

 

[W.C.]

All of this. Anyone in La Liga can finish third, which suggests it's a pretty shit league bar the top two.

Shit competition, yes.

Shit standard?

 

[Mellotron]

Shit competition, yes.

Shit standard?

Nah, shit competition. Villarreal gave us a footballing lesson and they'd only just gone up from the Spanish equivalent of the Championship.

 

[W.C.]

Nah, shit competition. Villarreal gave us a footballing lesson and they'd only just gone up from the Spanish equivalent of the Championship.

This is the thing. It's such a shame Barca and Madrid have such a stranglehold on the league these days when there is so much quality in the country. Oh for Super Depor to rise again...

 

[goldstone]

Personally I prefer Man Utd to Arsenal, Chelsea and Man City. They at least have a British Manager and use a reasonable number of English players. I would love to see a top four of Tottenham, Everton, Liverpool, Man U.

I hate this invasion of foreign players and managers. Southampton are to be admired for the number of English players they have, but a foreign manager who still can't handle interviews in English after a year in the country?? Must try harder.

 

[goldstone]

True enough I'm afraid.

In Spain, half of the ENTIRE television money goes to the big two. It is totally uncompetitive there, far more so than here. And as a consequence, there are NEVER going to be three other teams doing well enough to prevent either Real or Barca from finishing 4th at the very worst. Historically, Atletico Madrid, Valencia and Athletic Bilbao are the 3rd, 4th and 5th biggest clubs, and to prevent one of the big two from qualifying they would ALL have to have their best seasons for years (in some cases, several decades). Otherwise you're down to the likes of Espanyol, Sevilla and Sociedad to occupy a top 4 spot - which is rather like expecting Birmingham City to do the same.

Sounds as though the Spanish League is similar to that joke of a league we have north of the border where the champions were always either Celtic or Rangers, and at present either Celtic or ..... Celtic. Supporting any other club in such a league can't be a lot of fun. There is something to be said for the American NFL system where the bottom team gets first draft pick, but quite how any similar system could work here I have no idea.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Moyes sounded like a desperate man yesterday and the bigger clubs are sniffing blood.

It will be painful for United fans to look up at Liverpool riding high and seeing Suarez putting in regular game-changing performances. Beyond that Moyes must be gutted he is below former club Everton and transitional Spurs, both of whom also have new managers.

This transfer window will be interesting. In the last one United had just been crowned Premier League Champions but the first half of this season has exposed all of the cracks Ferguson managed to paper over last season. There was a time when joining Man Utd was the ultimate aim of almost every professional player in world football. Whether they still have that pulling power for the very best players remains to be seen.

 

[Northstandite]

Moyes sounded like a desperate man yesterday and the bigger clubs are sniffing blood.

It will be painful for United fans to look up at Liverpool riding high and seeing Suarez putting in regular game-changing performances. Beyond that Moyes must be gutted he is below former club Everton and transitional Spurs, both of whom also have new managers.

This transfer window will be interesting. In the last one United had just been crowned Premier League Champions but the first half of this season has exposed all of the cracks Ferguson managed to paper over last season. There was a time when joining Man Utd was the ultimate aim of almost every professional player in world football. Whether they still have that pulling power for the very best players remains to be seen.

Not just towards Liverpool. The Manure fans I know have a hatred of ManC (obviously), Arsenal/Wenger, and Chelsea (to them JCL's all based artificially on a billionaire's subsidy, scummy fans and the usual suspects of Terry, Cole & co).

 

[vegster]

Moyes sounded like a desperate man yesterday and the bigger clubs are sniffing blood.

It will be painful for United fans to look up at Liverpool riding high and seeing Suarez putting in regular game-changing performances. Beyond that Moyes must be gutted he is below former club Everton and transitional Spurs, both of whom also have new managers.

This transfer window will be interesting. In the last one United had just been crowned Premier League Champions but the first half of this season has exposed all of the cracks Ferguson managed to paper over last season. There was a time when joining Man Utd was the ultimate aim of almost every professional player in world football. Whether they still have that pulling power for the very best players remains to be seen.

I remember the golden days of Liverpool and their dominance for a while. Their decline was slow and steady until suddenly, they weren't there ? After the golden era of Paisley/Fagan/Dalglish every subsequent manager presided over a decline. Apart from the odd FA Cup and the amazing Champions League trophy won against all the odds, it's been downhill til now. Moyes could be taking United back to their less than golden days when the Old Trafford job was a revolving door.

 

[smeariestbat]

i cant be the only one who will find it hillarious when Everton finish above them.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Moyes could be taking United back to their less than golden days when the Old Trafford job was a revolving door.

Hardly a revolving door by todays standards, according to wiki, Frank O'Farrell & Wilf McGuinness were the only managers not given a decent amount of time. Doherty got 5 years, Sexton 4 years, Atkinson 5 years.

 

[Northstandite]

I remember the golden days of Liverpool and their dominance for a while. Their decline was slow and steady until suddenly, they weren't there ? After the golden era of Paisley/Fagan/Dalglish every subsequent manager presided over a decline. Apart from the odd FA Cup and the amazing Champions League trophy won against all the odds, it's been downhill til now. Moyes could be taking United back to their less than golden days when the Old Trafford job was a revolving door.

"For a while" covered c.1973 to 1990, including champs of Europe 4 times. A mere 18 seasons.
Since then its been ups and downs including several CL campaigns knocking out top european teams times.

Football changed forever with money. Bayern now poach every good german player from their rivals and so are/will dominate for years zzzzzzzzz, Barca & Real now share out La Liga titles whereas in the recent past clubs like Valencia won titles, and here clubs going nowhere like ManC and Chelsea got lucky with benefactors pumping in billions to buy better players than their true club income could afford. This had made it near impossible for clubs without a billionaire owner or vast stadium to compete for silverware.

The ManC and Chelsea situations have made it harder for ManU too .... but the relentless drive of Ferguson papered over the cracks which are now well and truly exposed.

 

[crookie]

Indeed, If Moyes had moved fast before Barkley had a run of games he could have got him cheap as chips. He paid over the odds for Fellaini and now if he wants Barkley his price will have gone through the roof.

The problem for United fans is that Moyes was never going bid for Barkley instead of the overrated Fellaini who was the first name on the teamsheet last season whilst Barkley was farmed out on loan a couple of times and barely given a sniff of the first team. Also their ineptitude in the August transfer window would hardly inspire confidence if I was a United fan. 6 teams better than them from what I've seen this season, would be a miracle for them to make top 4

 

[Ernest]

Gets WORSE for Moyes, out of the FA Cup at the first hurdle and boos ring out round Old Trafford from the 10k left in the ground at the end. Shows the lack of faith when the ground emptied even though it was only 1-2.

Fergie sat there looking like thunder or maybe awaiting the call to come back ?