[Politics] Joe Biden vs Donald Trump *** Official Match Thread ***

[Machiavelli]

Pennsylvania beginning to move quite substantially, now the remaining 25% of votes are starting to come in.

 

[willalbion]

For years, the dems have done nothing because they think that the changes in America's demographics will mean that they will win. So, while they've done **** all, the repubs have been bust winning judicial positions, gerrymandering,suppressing the vote and ****ing education...this is now why we are in the mess that we're in. The dems are just as much to blame as the repubs. This is why you have Biden, a proactive party would have made sure a viable, charismatic, intelligent candidate was available....they didn't, so the alternative to Biden was Pete Buttigeig. I know that Saunders was running, but even though I'm a fan of his, I just don't think a left wing candidate stands a chance in the cesspit that is America.

Good points Keith - no doubt the arrogance of the Dem's played a large part in Trump's last win and the alienation of a huge number of workers who would have been die-hard democrats a generation before. Biden is far from inspirational, however, Trump is a horror show. I'm astounded there are folks on here speaking up for him. Do we not all have the same facts? I mean, merely the fact he's threatening to undermine the US constitution whilst he's a sitting president should be enough. The rest of it is a matter of record. Surely the facts show he is unpresidential. Facts are not facts for some apparently. What a world.

 

[KeithDublin]

If anyone thinks getting rid of Trump and replacing him with another 70 yr old white man is going to help anything, you may be in for a shock.
The ship is going down, it doesn’t matter who the captain is.

I tend to agree, but it's got nothing to do with the age or the colour of Biden's skin. I think is irretrievably ****ed, the repubs have done enormous damage and the dems have been totally useless. To MAGA, you don't just have to fight the repubs, you also have to also fight the dems, and I don't think that's possible. I see in 4 to 10 years, america being essentially a authoritarian theocracy with abortion banned, and gay and trans rights wiped out.

 

[SAC]

Good points Keith - no doubt the arrogance of the Dem's played a large part in Trump's last win and the alienation of a huge number of workers who would have been die-hard democrats a generation before. Biden is far from inspirational, however, Trump is a horror show. I'm astounded there are folks on here speaking up for him. Do we not all have the same facts? I mean, merely the fact he's threatening to undermine the US constitution whilst he's a sitting president should be enough. The rest of it is a matter of record. Surely the facts show he is unpresidential. Facts are not facts for some apparently. What a world.

You can prove anything with facts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n-UGQcG3Jw

 

[KeithDublin]

Good points Keith - no doubt the arrogance of the Dem's played a large part in Trump's last win and the alienation of a huge number of workers who would have been die-hard democrats a generation before. Biden is far from inspirational, however, Trump is a horror show. I'm astounded there are folks on here speaking up for him. Do we not all have the same facts? I mean, merely the fact he's threatening to undermine the US constitution whilst he's a sitting president should be enough. The rest of it is a matter of record. Surely the facts show he is unpresidential. Facts are not facts for some apparently. What a world.

Thanks. This is where you need to read between the lines.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

Andrew Neil, the freelancer, is still brilliant at elections.

I’d rather Farage got no airtime, but both ITV and BBC would no doubt say it’s to give balance. Cynically, I’m thinking more along the lines of viewing figures (ITV) and for the very predictable fireworks.

Yes, Neil is great – I'm a fan of his work. But if I – also a freelancer – was to announce that I was going to establish a rival outlet to one I was working for, there is no WAY that it would carry on using me. Maybe it's not as clear-cut as that, but it did strike me as a little odd.

I'm with you on the viewing figures. If they wanted balance, there are other – less desperate – characters that could have been called upon. Plus it would only be balanced if they had some crazed Biden fan on, which I'm not sure they did...

 

[Bold Seagull]

You can prove anything with facts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n-UGQcG3Jw

One of his most brilliant sketches.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

Yes, it's great that Biden has a black woman as running mate.

However, it's just a shame that it's Kamala Harris

AOC please...

 

[Weststander]

As far as I am aware there are not many anywhere who "believe in Obamacare" on either side of the political spectrum, for good reason.

You have your views, you are entitled to them, but they aren't objective, you are particularly captured by your ideology. Again, that's your right, but everything you say has a reasonable counter argument, although I don't have the energy to argue with ideologues on here anymore.

As I said, we will see what kind of President Biden ends up being and what the effect of that is. I'm not preempting it, I'm happy to wait and see. Nothing is ever a given, either way.

As I said, we will see.

Trump has mocked veterans and the disabled, refused to point blank condemn a racist murder by Alt Right. They aren’t what Farage would blare “FAKE NEWS”. We saw Trump live doing these things.

What is my ideology?

In the past I was pro Reagan (no regrets), and centre right UK governments when I felt it was right or the least worst option, although a Remainer I’ve always said that begrudgingly I accept the result. Also voting for Blair in 97 and later Lucas.

Like most people my ideology is a mix of views. Very anti Trump due to his bullying and belittling personality, oil and gas over climate change, devoid of empathy and policies to help the poor get decent healthcare.

 

[Scappa]

[tweet]1324004554485211136[/tweet]

It's almost as though Trumplestilskin put Louis DeJoy in charge of the USPS to disrupt delivery of postal votes...

 

[fruitnveg]

[tweet]1323974967617224704[/tweet]

Whether you believe it or not, this won't be over anytime soon.

 

[nicko31]

Good points Keith - no doubt the arrogance of the Dem's played a large part in Trump's last win and the alienation of a huge number of workers who would have been die-hard democrats a generation before. Biden is far from inspirational, however, Trump is a horror show. I'm astounded there are folks on here speaking up for him. Do we not all have the same facts? I mean, merely the fact he's threatening to undermine the US constitution whilst he's a sitting president should be enough. The rest of it is a matter of record. Surely the facts show he is unpresidential. Facts are not facts for some apparently. What a world.

Yes, Biden is far from inspirational but I think he has a better chance of pulling back together a divided nation but Trump has done so much damage it won't be easy.

Should Trump still win and this is possible he will be even more unhinged, there is no limit to what he will try next. The polarisation will get worse and worse

 

[Weststander]

Pennsylvania beginning to move quite substantially, now the remaining 25% of votes are starting to come in.

1.05 Biden on Betfair. The sort of odds ManC get for a home match against Fulham.

It will still take many hours until Thursday to get the result .... the Michigan Sec of State was explaining this a moment ago on CNN.

Wisconsin 1.06.

 

[Eeyore]

Its happening boys, 4 more years

[tweet]1323974967617224704[/tweet]

Whether you believe it or not, this won't be over anytime soon.

Sorry, you're confusing me now.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

I tend to agree, but it's got nothing to do with the age or the colour of Biden's skin. I think is irretrievably ****ed, the repubs have done enormous damage and the dems have been totally useless. To MAGA, you don't just have to fight the repubs, you also have to also fight the dems, and I don't think that's possible. I see in 4 to 10 years, america being essentially a authoritarian theocracy with abortion banned, and gay and trans rights wiped out.

I might be alone in thinking this, but I have a feeling Biden won't be the disaster that everyone seems to think he will be:

Trump might talk a lot, but what he offers in energy (ranting) his lacks in actual content and depth of thinking. He rambles incoherently, like people think Biden does and clearly has no regard for pretty much anything –*take, just as one example, his tax returns and the pittance he paid while in office.

Then there is the whole 'politician' thing. Last time around lots of people loved Trump becuase 'he wasn't a career politician'. I think, in lots of ways, that has counted against him. Instead of trying to work with people, or at least see their point of view, he has gone against everyone and tried to do what he wants (mostly Dems, but sometimes his own party (and people – look at the WH staff turnover)). I know that is true of any party and leadership, but he seems to have taken it to another (low) level. In contrast, Biden has been around politics for decades, which means – whether you agree with him or not – he knows what he's doing.

Also, as I've mentioned before, he's only three years older than Trump, so I think the whole old man thing can be discounted. To a degree, at least – he's clearly no spring chicken, but he's also not at death's door either.

Finally, this whole Trump Brexit trade deal is a bit of a non-starter. Biden might say there won't be a deal with the UK, but you can bet that if there IS one with Trump, he will make sure we are royally shafted. He'll see us (quite rightly, you could argue) as there for the taking.

Whatever happens – and whoever is in charge – all we can hope for is that the next four years will be better than the last.

 

[nicko31]

Interesting US stock markets are all up strongly pricing in a clear result. FB up 8% so much for them being scared of Democrat regulation

 

[Gabbiano]

[tweet]1323974967617224704[/tweet]

Whether you believe it or not, this won't be over anytime soon.

You can see an awful lot of vertical lines in each of those diagrams, I.e. every time a new set of results was announced. It’s just that these new verticals were big (large numbers of mail in ballots from urban areas). You can also see that Trumps numbers went up at the same time, even if by a fraction of the amount Biden’s did.

People are just wilfully misrepresenting information. But what’s new?

 

[KeithDublin]

I might be alone in thinking this, but I have a feeling Biden won't be the disaster that everyone seems to think he will be:

Trump might talk a lot, but what he offers in energy (ranting) his lacks in actual content and depth of thinking. He rambles incoherently, like people think Biden does and clearly has no regard for pretty much anything –*take, just as one example, his tax returns and the pittance he paid while in office.

Then there is the whole 'politician' thing. Last time around lots of people loved Trump becuase 'he wasn't a career politician'. I think, in lots of ways, that has counted against him. Instead of trying to work with people, or at least see their point of view, he has gone against everyone and tried to do what he wants (mostly Dems, but sometimes his own party (and people – look at the WH staff turnover)). I know that is true of any party and leadership, but he seems to have taken it to another (low) level. In contrast, Biden has been around politics for decades, which means – whether you agree with him or not – he knows what he's doing.

Also, as I've mentioned before, he's only three years older than Trump, so I think the whole old man thing can be discounted. To a degree, at least – he's clearly no spring chicken, but he's also not at death's door either.

Finally, this whole Trump Brexit trade deal is a bit of a non-starter. Biden might say there won't be a deal with the UK, but you can bet that if there IS one with Trump, he will make sure we are royally shafted. He'll see us (quite rightly, you could argue) as there for the taking.

Whatever happens – and whoever is in charge – all we can hope for is that the next four years will be better than the last.

I don't think he will be a disaster either, but America needs much, much more than that

 

[worthingseagull123]

AOC please...

She is an absolute nutjob.

 

[fruitnveg]

You can see an awful lot of vertical lines in each of those diagrams, I.e. every time a new set of results was announced. It’s just that these new verticals were big (large numbers of mail in ballots from urban areas). You can also see that Trumps numbers went up at the same time, even if by a fraction of the amount Biden’s did.

People are just wilfully misrepresenting information. But what’s new?

130 thousand votes dropped in an instant with no reply (not even a solitary vote) for any other candidate doesn't raise either of your eyebrows then?