Frankel v black caviar

[bennibenj]

And who ranks the opposition?

The same people who come up with the rubbish rankings for the lead horse?

If you knew anything about BC which you don't. You'd understand she's won 12 group 1 race, 80% of which she's been sat up on with 100-200 metres to go. Meaning her winning margins and times aren't reflective of her dominance.

Times and distances also make up parts of the time form rating meaning they aren't worth spit to being a true reflection of a horses performance.

I recommend Nivea extra gentle balm, good for sensitive types.

 

[Questions]

Only idiots try to compare apples to oranges is his point.

I guess those kind of people are the ones who are claiming Frankel the greatest horse to ever race. Which is utterly laughable.

He is the best miler there has ever been.

It's like a pound for pound argument as to who was the greatest ever boxer.
You cannot really compare. Brigadier Gerard won group 1 races up to 12 furlongs after winning the 2000 Guinees but does that make him a better horse than Frankel. Not at a mile I don't think. He had more scope though. I reckon Frankel will get 10 furlongs easy but you will never see him at a mile and a half so there the comparisons end.

 

[danwa08]

How do you know what class of horses she's raced against?

The whole best in the world concept is complete and utter wank.

Put Frankel over 2 Miles and he'd get his arse handed to him by the worlds best stayers.

Perspective seems lost on a lot of people. maybe they get carried away with that stupid time form rubbish.

Your a hypocrit.....

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

I recommend Nivea extra gentle balm, good for sensitive types.

Can i suggest yo ugo out and get a clue? Think I saw them selling that at tescos for 99p.

 

[danwa08]

Only idiots try to compare apples to oranges is his point.

I guess those kind of people are the ones who are claiming Frankel the greatest horse to ever race. Which is utterly laughable.

Frankel is going to get Better and better and WILL run faster sectionals than black caviar, why did they not stick around for the July cup?? They've bottled it and gone back to Australia. Ascots undulations found her out yesterday. Put frankel on a flat pancake track..... Well you'd see even more greatness.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

He is the best miler there has ever been.

It's like a pound for pound argument as to who was the greatest ever boxer.
You cannot really compare. Brigadier Gerard won group 1 races up to 12 furlongs after winning the 2000 Guinees but does that make him a better horse than Frankel. Not at a mile I don't think. He had more scope though. I reckon Frankel will get 10 furlongs easy but you will never see him at a mile and a half so there the comparisons end.

Since when is he the best miler ever? Because you said so? I'm genuinely interested as to how a 4 year old colt that's faced small fields in more than half his starts is some how greater than the brilliant milers that have come before him from around the world?

Do tell me, did you ever see Kingston Town race? He's the best miler I've ever seen race.


Kingston Town's record

 

[Kuipers Supporters Club]

What does that youtube prove?

Black Caviar 22 wins undefeated.

Frankel 11 wins unbeaten.

She's won in England, now bring Frankel to Oz.

That's like saying Brighton are unbeaten in France as we beat Le Harve, when really we have only beaten mediocre opposition.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Frankel is going to get Better and better and WILL run faster sectionals than black caviar, why did they not stick around for the July cup?? They've bottled it and gone back to Australia. Ascots undulations found her out yesterday. Put frankel on a flat pancake track..... Well you'd see even more greatness.

So many assumptions of a horse that's never traveled outside it's own small world.

Hilarious you used the term "bottled it". Especially given they bottled it with Frankel and the Epsom Derby.

BC has the international score on the board. Frankel has his 3-6 horse fields at 2-3 different home tracks he can pin on his chest.

 

[Mackenzie]

I don't get all this 'she's travelled 12,000 miles' rubbish.............surely it would be a relief not to be racing upside down for once.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

That's like saying Brighton are unbeaten in France as we beat Le Harve, when really we have only beaten mediocre opposition.

Hardly.

We have a brilliant filly here called Atlantic Jewel. She'll give Frankel a far better race over 1600 metres than BC would.

 

[sydney]

Black Caviar apparently damaged her back during the race ........apparently examined by English vets as moody and team were concerned that she didn't seem right , massive post mortem here over Nolen's ride.........he said she usually just lets down when he gives her her head and doesn't need any encouragement ,he said that as soon as he stopped urging her she tried to pull up immediately which is very unlike her.........the whole team appear to be gutted and are very concerned for the horse .......she will do a month in quarantine 2 weeks each side of the ditch........she will then be rested.........talk of retirement....

that would appear to explain the lack lustre/ below par performance.

take it or leave it.

 

[keithbeaky]

Is it last year already?

 

[Questions]

Since when is he the best miler ever? Because you said so? I'm genuinely interested as to how a 4 year old colt that's faced small fields in more than half his starts is some how greater than the brilliant milers that have come before him from around the world?

Do tell me, did you ever see Kingston Town race? He's the best miler I've ever seen race.


Kingston Town's record

Are you an Australian ? Because you are sounding like one. Kingston town.... Do me a favour. He was the best miler in Australia at the start of the 80,s, that is all. We are talking of the cream of Europe not some nag from the colonies.
The big owners come here not Australia because they know Europe is where it's at.

 

[sydney]

Is it last year already?

not yet.

 

[keithbeaky]

not yet.

Well it seems like it. If you love racing and have no bias towards horses from your own country then this discussion was over a year ago. They would never race against each other over 6f and at 7f there really is no contest. Black Caviar is a top class sprinter who has beaten everything put in front of her for 22 races and a lot of them in Group 1's. However Id like to see her go to the Breeders Cup or Dubai in April?

Frankel is the best horse the world has ever seen and you should enjoy that too. Im not even sure what job the pacemaker does this year as he doesn't really need one. Ok it makes his fractions quicker but he breezes through them, unlike Excelebration who tried to go the pace Frankel did and then had absolutely nothing left for the last 1.5f/300m of Tuesdays race as a result of that and almost stopped to a walk. Queally still struggled to pull Frankel up, he is a freak. He probably would've won the Kings Stand over 5f/1000m where he actually did 1f quicker in his race than they did in that on the same day.

It also shows that champions of previous years were good, but not exceptional. Frankel is exceptional, once in a lifetime stuff. As is Black Caviar, but Frankel is the next level.

 

[patchamalbion]

Are you an Australian ? Because you are sounding like one. Kingston town.... Do me a favour. He was the best miler in Australia at the start of the 80,s, that is all. We are talking of the cream of Europe not some nag from the colonies.
The big owners come here not Australia because they know Europe is where it's at.

Genuninely interested in the answer to this

 

[Raleigh Chopper]

Are you an Australian ? Because you are sounding like one. Kingston town.... Do me a favour. He was the best miler in Australia at the start of the 80,s, that is all. We are talking of the cream of Europe not some nag from the colonies.
The big owners come here not Australia because they know Europe is where it's at.

I have been wondering this too, ex pat or aussie, either way there is clearly a difference of opinion here, on the one hand the entire horse racing world agrees that frankel is the best they have seen and can improve and on the other hand Tyrone Biggums disagrees. Black Caviar is clearly a very good horse, but underperforms and here comes all the usual excuses. Laughable, but not as funny as tha aussie PM throwing the runners up medals at the aussie rugby players when we won the world cup.

 

[bennibenj]

Well it seems like it. If you love racing and have no bias towards horses from your own country then this discussion was over a year ago. They would never race against each other over 6f and at 7f there really is no contest. Black Caviar is a top class sprinter who has beaten everything put in front of her for 22 races and a lot of them in Group 1's. However Id like to see her go to the Breeders Cup or Dubai in April?

Frankel is the best horse the world has ever seen and you should enjoy that too. Im not even sure what job the pacemaker does this year as he doesn't really need one. Ok it makes his fractions quicker but he breezes through them, unlike Excelebration who tried to go the pace Frankel did and then had absolutely nothing left for the last 1.5f/300m of Tuesdays race as a result of that and almost stopped to a walk. Queally still struggled to pull Frankel up, he is a freak. He probably would've won the Kings Stand over 5f/1000m where he actually did 1f quicker in his race than they did in that on the same day.

It also shows that champions of previous years were good, but not exceptional. Frankel is exceptional, once in a lifetime stuff. As is Black Caviar, but Frankel is the next level.

Great post - well said mate

 

[sydney]

Well it seems like it. If you love racing and have no bias towards horses from your own country then this discussion was over a year ago. They would never race against each other over 6f and at 7f there really is no contest. Black Caviar is a top class sprinter who has beaten everything put in front of her for 22 races and a lot of them in Group 1's. However Id like to see her go to the Breeders Cup or Dubai in April?

Frankel is the best horse the world has ever seen and you should enjoy that too. Im not even sure what job the pacemaker does this year as he doesn't really need one. Ok it makes his fractions quicker but he breezes through them, unlike Excelebration who tried to go the pace Frankel did and then had absolutely nothing left for the last 1.5f/300m of Tuesdays race as a result of that and almost stopped to a walk. Queally still struggled to pull Frankel up, he is a freak. He probably would've won the Kings Stand over 5f/1000m where he actually did 1f quicker in his race than they did in that on the same day.

It also shows that champions of previous years were good, but not exceptional. Frankel is exceptional, once in a lifetime stuff. As is Black Caviar, but Frankel is the next level.

yeah i know mate , Frankel is outstanding , Black Cav wasn't at her best but still took the race..............my comment was regarding dunaden which ran the melbourne cup last year ....and won. have a nice evening if you can after watching that. (q/f)

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Are you an Australian ? Because you are sounding like one. Kingston town.... Do me a favour. He was the best miler in Australia at the start of the 80,s, that is all. We are talking of the cream of Europe not some nag from the colonies.
The big owners come here not Australia because they know Europe is where it's at.

Umm Kingston Town is considered possibly the greatest horse to ever race in OZ.

But just to show you don't know what you're on about.

Sheik Mohammed bin Rashid al Maktoum owns one the biggest stables in Australia. Kinda makes your statement worthy of the full of crap" department.