This in spades, I sincerely hope Burnley rise above it.
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[Football] Dyche sacked!
- Thread starter wellquickwoody
- Start date
This in spades, I sincerely hope Burnley rise above it.
Mad decision. They're in trouble because of their stingy budget, not Dyche.
It is impressive, but it's been done with a certain style of football that works on a budget, like fat Sam did with Bolton. That doesn't make him better than Potter, who is teaching his players a more exciting style, and has more potential to go further. Say that the PL changed the rules and clubs had to have English managers - who do you think Man City would rather have, Dyche or Potter?
Neville's Breakfast
Well-known member
It isn’t a binary choice between styles or some sort of choice between good and evil. I enjoy our style of play but think we are at our best when we mix it up a little. We have seen that recently with effective long passes from Dunk. I do sometimes think some of our fans are the football equivalent of too posh to push and would rather see purist football fail than do what it takes to succeed. Dyche may be too much the other extreme but he hasn’t really ever been given an opportunity to show his purist side.
Dyche got Burnley into Europe based on league position though - I can't really see how much further he could have taken them really. You can't really say the same for Potter, who in all likelihood will leave 2 or 3 league places on the table. I think Potter's style is easier on the eye, but football is a results business and Dyche has done better and over a sustained period of time. I can't really see what does make him better if you're just going to ignore his 7th place finish since he last got Burnley promoted. Do you want to look at Dyche's Burnley v Potter's Brighton head to head results?
Cowfold Seagull
Fan of the 17 bus
I've basically said the same thing. They're mad to sack him. But football managers aren't all capable of all styles. Dyche is likely to get Burnley finishing higher than Pep could, but Pep is better at succeeding with a more skilful set of players. Potter's style is more like Pep's.
Do you think Dyche will go onto better things than Potter in the future?
I'm just baffled at you arguing with the assertion that Dyche has been better than Potter so far. It's a results business, so clearly he has. Burnley are a small club but finished 7th FFS. By talking about who is going onto better things in the future, you're arguing a different point - and Potter is by no means guaranteed a gig at a Champions League contender anyway.
For me, Dyche is very competent and comes across eloquently at pressers. I'd take him ahead of Eddie Howe personally.
Cowfold Seagull
Fan of the 17 bus
Potter is teaching his players a more fluent exciting style of football yes, but he has the quality of squad to enable him to do that. Can you really imagine him getting the same success if he had the Burnley cloggers to work with?
Sean Dyche could only work with what he had at his disposal, a very small and very limited group of players. The style he created worked for them for a lot of years, and their tenure in the Premier League wouldn't have lasted nearly as long as it has.
I applaud him for it.
I didn't disagree that he has been better so far. This is the comment I disagreed with: "Best English manager by a mile."
A quick google returns this:
https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/ranked-the-10-best-english-managers-in-football-right-now
1) Potter
2) Southgate
3) Dyche
I'm not suggesting that Potter is the best, but that link suggests I'm not alone in thinking that Dyche isn't the best English manager by a mile.
No I can't. I said they are mad to sack him. But that doesn't mean he's a better manager than Potter, he's just a different style of manager.
I agree and haven't said otherwise.
Sorry, but that's not how it came across.
You disagreed with Kinky Gerbil when he said Dyche was "Absolutely better than Potter at the moment" and argued the point by saying that because he works with a certain style and certain players "that doesn't make him better than Potter".
Well no. What makes him better than Potter at the moment is his track record keeping Burnley in the league (and usually above us in the league table) despite a much smaller playing budget, and a 7th placed finish to boot.
Cowfold Seagull
Fan of the 17 bus
Well you say he is a different style, and l'd be inclined to agree by what we have seen of him thus far. Then again if ever he were to manage a team with more money to spend on players of real quality, would we see a totally different Sean Dyche, one who gave his players licence to express themselves a la Potterball.
It would sure be interesting to see.
Ok I see. I'm quoting the 3 posts I'd read, which I was originally replying to (I didn't quote them all first time) - I've cut a little to make it more readable, but not intended to change the meaning:
Well I don't particularly agree with you:
I think Dyche has currently achieved more than Potter (I'm ignoring Potter's achievements in Sweden as I don't know enough about how significant they are).
In terms of which of them is a better manager, right now, today:
I don't think that's the same as who has achieved the most so far, because I don't see it as simple as that. I think Dyche would be a much better choice for a club like Burnley, with their budget. I think Potter would be a much better choice for a top 6 club with their budget (maybe you disagree, that's fine).
And if England were replacing their manager, I think Potter would be a better choice than Dyche, because of the players available to them.
How many of Fat Sam's clubs ex clubs did better after he left? Easy to criticise a style of football that works just because it isn't easy on the eye.
A more exciting style but one more goal than Burnley as it stands?
How would Dyche do with money, he seems pretty good in the transfer window as well.
Dyche has PL finishes Potter can only dream of atm, which could of course change
That's not what I'm doing. I've mentioned Fat Sam as another example of someone who has done well with a small budget, using a similar style of football.
What I am saying is that being good at managing that style, doesn't mean you'll also be good at managing one of the styles that's proven successful in winning the PL etc.
Dyche and Fat Sam are better at their hoofball (sorry, please provide my the correct term) and Potter is better at Tippy Tappy.
The same questions were asked of Fat Sam for years. Tony Pulis too. Can you provide an example of a manager similar to them, who's gone on to do well with a club that had money?
I think Potter's dreams might be a bit more ambitious than that. He's managed 7 PL seasons - these are the positions he's had them in (best to worst):
7, 10, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19
Potter:
10 (likely to drop, but hopefully not much), 15, 16
As I've said, I think Dyche has achieved more so far, but I think Potter will be aiming to do better.
I am sure Dyche will be aiming higher than what he has done at Burnley as well, I don't know why you think he wouldn't be?
How many managers from unfancied clubs are given a chance at a top 6/8 clubs? Those clubs tend to recycle the same managers, promote from within or abroad.
We can all dream, but I think Potter is more likely to achieve that dream.
Not many, and why do you think that is? I suggest it's because top clubs aren't after managers who've only done well with hoofball.
You think Dyche is miles better than Potter. Presumably you think Bloom should be on the phone right now, checking if Dyche would fancy working on the south coast?
Machiavelli
Well-known member
I'm with Trig all the way on this debate, which is to say:
1, comparisons are a little unfair, given that Dyche has had the Burnley gig for longer than Potter has been at Brighton. I'm not buying that Dyche is better now purely on the basis that in one season, he finished seventh. Great achievement that is, but he was sacked from Burnley when they were in the relegation zone with a quarter of the season to go -- that would suggest that Potter may well be better NOW.
2, I get that Potter's had a little more money to spend but, then again, he's managed to attract £65m in fees for CBs of late, and no doubt will also oversee a decent fee for Bissouma in the summer too.
3, really not convinced that Dyche would be able to work his magic on a top six/eight club. He has a style of football, and the board and fans of such clubs don't like it.
1, comparisons are a little unfair, given that Dyche has had the Burnley gig for longer than Potter has been at Brighton. I'm not buying that Dyche is better now purely on the basis that in one season, he finished seventh. Great achievement that is, but he was sacked from Burnley when they were in the relegation zone with a quarter of the season to go -- that would suggest that Potter may well be better NOW.
2, I get that Potter's had a little more money to spend but, then again, he's managed to attract £65m in fees for CBs of late, and no doubt will also oversee a decent fee for Bissouma in the summer too.
3, really not convinced that Dyche would be able to work his magic on a top six/eight club. He has a style of football, and the board and fans of such clubs don't like it.