[Albion] Covid Passports *may* allow return to full Premier League crowds

[Wardy's twin]

I agree with most you’ve said, apart from the 150,000 figure. We were told that to judge the severity of the virus, we had to go by how many excess deaths there were. I just wish we had a proper figure of how many people died of Covid, rather than ‘This person was dying, they just happened to have Covid, and it might have been that that dealt the final blow rather than flu or pneumonia’. I think it would clear up a lot of the confusion and conflict. For example, maybe you can explain to why Covid and coronavirus have become interchangeable?

I get what you’re saying about the people with the weak immune systems, my sister is immunocompromised, but what I don’t understand is that people like her could just so easily be taken as ill with the flu, yet no one seems to care about that, for example not everyone should get the flu jab yet are told they should get the Covid jab.

Your last point though, I don’t think we should be living in a hypochondriacs world, we never have done. Sure, people should be washing their hands alot more when it’s flu season and shouldn’t be going out if they are ill, I totally agree with that, but to go around assuming that one (and everyone else) has a virus is a bit crazy, we don’t work on the Butterfly Effect, if we want to carry on with that train of thought then we all might aswell go around in bio secure suits. Wasn’t it only a month or so ago that more people were dying of pneumonia than of Covid? Might have got that wrong.

Am I also right in remembering that most people with Covid in hospital recently actually caught it in hospital rather than going in there because of the virus?

You seem civil, unlike the others. Thanks for the conversation

I can only use the figures which are published, I don't see why the government should want to inflate the numbers unnecessarily. This is a Conservative government with many parts of it anti-lockdown so making the situation seem worse is really not in their interest. I do agree it is not simply a black and white situation.

Most people use the terms coronavirus and COVID interchangeably . COVID 19 is a type of Coronavirus which happened to raise its head in 2019. Not sure if that clarification is really needed though.

Regards your sister and being immunocompromised , sorry to hear that but surely that should just focus your attention more, COVID could hit her but so could FLU. I would have thought that you would/should be behind anything that improves her ability to survive

Not sure if having a jab or wearing a mask to counteract a known threat to peoples health's and lives makes us hypochondriacs , just seems sensible like looking left and right before I cross the road.

If everyone got vaccinated then maybe it would be simpler to assume people were ok rather than a carrier of a deadly disease. In poor areas in the 1920-50s if you coughed too much it was often assumed you TB a prevalent killer at the time , a change in living conditions combined with BCG injections stopped the spread and changed the mindset. It has become unacceptable to let people die of TB.

Let's be clear people die and what they die from is perhaps a moving target as we deal with illnesses. COVID 19 is a big threat as a cause of death we need to continue to take steps to reduce its impact. I don't mean full lockdown but I think opening nightclubs is wrong as is not wearing masks in areas of lots of people or indoors.

 

[Sid in the Sharknado]

Forgot to add the link:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...crisis-bad-weather-illness-2017-a8660496.html

Ahh, so you are ok with inadvertently causing deaths, as long as the risk is slightly lower

Not sure where you got the ‘old people’s lives are worthless’ bit from. If you used you brain, you would see that I merely pointed out that the average age of flu and Covid deaths (or Coronavirus, we’re not sure, because not every Coronavirus is Covid) are pretty similar.

Re-read the article, 50,000 was the total number of extra deaths, not the number attributable to flu.

You're making a much better argument against anybody being allowed to drive, swim in the sea, work in agriculture, cook on a gas oven, whatever, than you are in favour of not having any restrictions to reduce Covid deaths. Covid, in it's current form, is much more likely to spread and cause deaths on a mass scale than other diseases. Therefore we take steps to reduce the chance of spread. Once we've reduced the chance of serious illness/death through vaccinations and better treatments, those restrictions will be removed.

You're making that claim while arguing that we shouldn't have restrictions to reduce the spread of the disease. To be absolutely clear, you are the one suggesting that we should be acting in a way that would lead to a higher number of deaths, not me.

I'd further point out that during, for example, the Spanish Flu epidemic, people did wear masks and were advised to avoid poorly ventilated spaces to reduce the spread of the disease.

The point that coronavirus is a generic name for a type of virus, while Covid-19 is the name of the specific virus we're dealing with, has been made by at least one person on this thread already. You may as well complain about people referring to "black death" or "the great plague" instead of Yersinia Pestis.

 

[tonytowner]

As everyone who is against being vaccinated says - it’s all about personal choice. I quite agree . If you don’t want to pay your taxes then don’t - the consequence is you go to jail. If you don’t want to be vaccinated then fine but don’t attend nightclubs, football matches etc. Personal choice….

 

[LamieRobertson]

As everyone who is against being vaccinated says - it’s all about personal choice. I quite agree . If you don’t want to pay your taxes then don’t - the consequence is you go to jail. If you don’t want to be vaccinated then fine but don’t attend nightclubs, football matches etc. Personal choice….

Pity…if it goes ahead I guess I won’t be going to the Amex again until it stops ..because I just dont agree with vaccine passports apart from maybe visiting another country… I’ll spare you the silly analogies…still will they go ahead ..I’d guess the odds are 60/40 they won’t

 

[n1 gull]

Pity…if it goes ahead I guess I won’t be going to the Amex again until it stops ..because I just dont agree with vaccine passports apart from maybe visiting another country… I’ll spare you the silly analogies…still will they go ahead ..I’d guess the odds are 60/40 they won’t

Agree 100%

I can't condone medical apartheid and won't go to events that advocate a divided society.
It's good to see some musicians come out against this as well as the whole nightlife industry.

I wrote to my MP Andrew Griffiths to ask his view. He is opposed but said he doesn't think it will implemented.
I don't trust this Government but I hope he's right, it's a slippery slope

 

[drew]

Agree 100%

I can't condone medical apartheid and won't go to events that advocate a divided society.
It's good to see some musicians come out against this as well as the whole nightlife industry.

I wrote to my MP Andrew Griffiths to ask his view. He is opposed but said he doesn't think it will implemented.
I don't trust this Government but I hope he's right, it's a slippery slope

So the nightlife industry that has been banging on for ages about how picked on they have been have an opportunity to keep open but are against it when stats seem to suggest that covid is spreading more rapidly in their target age group!

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/covid-cases-uk-young-people-20s-b1888683.html

 

[Withdean11]

So covid 'may' be more deadly! Are you for real? Covid is clearly more deadly than flu by a very long way, this being borne out by the statistics!

Unless we mass test for flu at the same rate as we do Covid, then include every death within 28 days of a positive test as a “flu death”, it really is hard to say.

 

[Hugo Rune]

Pity…if it goes ahead I guess I won’t be going to the Amex again until it stops ..because I just dont agree with vaccine passports apart from maybe visiting another country… I’ll spare you the silly analogies…still will they go ahead ..I’d guess the odds are 60/40 they won’t

Is it going to be vaccine dependent?

It seems that you may well be able to get in to a 20k+ stadium fixture using the NUS Covid-App with a LFT negative test or a positive test in the last 3 months (but not in last 10 days).

If you are not prepared to go to this length to protect other people from a virus you might be carrying in a global pandemic, you can’t expect to access places like the Amex and nightclubs where people have fun.

It’s not ideal, but then 120k people dying with Covid-19 isn’t either. We all have to play our part.

 

[drew]

Unless we mass test for flu at the same rate as we do Covid, then include every death within 28 days of a positive test as a “flu death”, it really is hard to say.

Not really. 130k deaths related to Covid in 18 months (and that's only those within 28 days of a test) whereas the 5 year average for flu is about 25k.

 

[Withdean11]

Not really. 130k deaths related to Covid in 18 months (and that's only those within 28 days of a test) whereas the 5 year average for flu is about 25k.

You’ve missed the point. That 130K includes everyone who has died, for any reason, within 28 days of a positive test. That includes everyone who died of cancer, a stroke, old age or getting hit by a bus. When you consider the amount of tests we are doing, it’s no wonder the number is so high.

130K died WITH covid, not from.

If you applied the same method to the flu, and with mass testing numbers, that number would be much higher. Add in the media hype, and we’d have people losing their minds over the flu too.

 

[Poojah]

You’ve missed the point. That 130K includes everyone who has died, for any reason, within 28 days of a positive test. That includes everyone who died of cancer, a stroke, old age or getting hit by a bus. When you consider the amount of tests we are doing, it’s no wonder the number is so high.

130K died WITH covid, not from.

If you applied the same method to the flu, and with mass testing numbers, that number would be much higher. Add in the media hype, and we’d have people losing their minds over the flu too.

I think this graph helps with this argument - as Covid emerged in the UK last spring we saw a sudden spike in the numbers of people dying, over and above the level normally expected. Even though flu is of course included within those ‘expected’ numbers, despite the fact it typically peaks in the winter you don’t see spikes like those seen in 2020 in any ‘normal year’.

In unvaccinated people I think the broadly accepted case fatality rates are around 2.5% and 0.5% for flu, whilst the former is significantly transmissible and is more likely to leave those who recover with long-term health problems. That’s always been the challenge.

I don’t doubt that there have been deaths recorded as Covid with little evidence that it was the primary cause, but that still doesn’t do anything to detract from its significance as a challenge to healthcare systems.

 

[tonytowner]

Pity…if it goes ahead I guess I won’t be going to the Amex again until it stops ..because I just dont agree with vaccine passports apart from maybe visiting another country… I’ll spare you the silly analogies…still will they go ahead ..I’d guess the odds are 60/40 they won’t

Your choice. Can’t see what the difference is between being a potential carrier of the virus from travelling abroad so accepting having the vaccination but not agreeing with it for attending an event where you are in close proximity to 30000 people.

 

[tonytowner]

Agree 100%

I can't condone medical apartheid and won't go to events that advocate a divided society.
It's good to see some musicians come out against this as well as the whole nightlife industry.

I wrote to my MP Andrew Griffiths to ask his view. He is opposed but said he doesn't think it will implemented.
I don't trust this Government but I hope he's right, it's a slippery slope

Medical apartheid….. divided society. All that is being asked is that someone has two injections in their arm to try & stop the spread of a deadly virus. I can’t condone the selfish behaviour of individuals who aren’t prepared to join in with the rest of adult society. I won’t be writing to my MP though or seeking the considered views of impartial nightclub owners.

 

[tonytowner]

You’ve missed the point. That 130K includes everyone who has died, for any reason, within 28 days of a positive test. That includes everyone who died of cancer, a stroke, old age or getting hit by a bus. When you consider the amount of tests we are doing, it’s no wonder the number is so high.

130K died WITH covid, not from.

If you applied the same method to the flu, and with mass testing numbers, that number would be much higher. Add in the media hype, and we’d have people losing their minds over the flu too.

You’ve missed the point. The reason that ONLY 130k people have died (accepting a proportion would have died anyway) is that the whole country has been shutdown on 3 occasions.

 

[crodonilson]

According to Wolverhampton FC for their glamour home friendly with Celta Vigo a code of conduct, likely to be in line with an agreed EPL code of conduct, will be in place.

We need you to:

Conduct your own health risk assessment before purchasing a ticket, taking into account your own age, health conditions or vulnerabilities.
Wear a face covering on entry to, exit from and in all areas inside the stadium, including seats. Face coverings may be removed temporarily while eating/drinking. This is especially important in enclosed areas such as concourses and toilets.  
Plan your journey in advance to arrive in good time to go through all the necessary entry procedures.
Please follow the latest guidance on using public transport to make your way to and from the Stadium.
Make sure you know in advance where your entry point is, you must use the turnstile block indicated on your ticket.
Ensure you have your e-ticket loaded to your mobile device or have your print at home ticket to hand. Turnstiles will open 90 minutes prior to kick off. Note: Tickets can only be used by the named owner of the ticket.
To help reduce queues at security checkpoints do not bring a bag. If you must then only an A4 sized bag (21cm x 15 cm x 10cm) will be permitted into the stadium. Bags larger than specified, Laptops and rucksacks are not permitted. There are no storage facility available.
Agree to be searched with a security wand before entering the stadium.
Be respectful to others in your vicinity, especially during celebrations, avoid hugs, high-fives and any close contact with people not within your group.
Maintain good hand hygiene at all times, please use the hand sanitiser dispensers provided and avoid touching your face or handles and railings whenever possible.
Please remain in your allocated seat location for the full game if possible, including at half time, and avoid unnecessary movement. If you need to move, wait until gangways are clear, avoid face to face contact and follow stewards’ instructions. You must not swap seats with other supporters.
When using toilet facilities, please follow all guidance, be patient and considerate towards other users, wait your turn to avoid toilets areas becoming crowded.
Be aware that all payments inside the ground are contactless.
Follow any instructions or requests given to you by stewards or other stadium staff to ensure that the stadium is carefully managed for everyone’s safety.
Not to approach any of the club’s or visiting club’s players or coaching staff at any time, players and staff will not be able to sign autographs or pose for photographs.
Be aware that the club reserves the right to eject any supporter that fails to comply with this Code of Conduct and we reserve the right to apply sanctions in line with club policy.

 

[dsr-burnley]

Not really. 130k deaths related to Covid in 18 months (and that's only those within 28 days of a test) whereas the 5 year average for flu is about 25k.

It's not disputed that Covid, the brand new disease against which no-one has antibodies, is more lethal than flu, the long standing disease that many people have had before and for which vaccines exist. But we aren't in that position any more. The question now is whether Covid, the slightly-less-new disease against which most of us have antibodies and for which vaccines exist, is more lethal the flu, the long standing disease that many people have had before and for which vaccines exist.

 

[Fat Boy Fat]

You’ve missed the point. That 130K includes everyone who has died, for any reason, within 28 days of a positive test. That includes everyone who died of cancer, a stroke, old age or getting hit by a bus. When you consider the amount of tests we are doing, it’s no wonder the number is so high.

130K died WITH covid, not from.

If you applied the same method to the flu, and with mass testing numbers, that number would be much higher. Add in the media hype, and we’d have people losing their minds over the flu too.

Not true... you are perpetuating myths, as does much else of your post.

 

[Pint of Ale and a Burger]

Here we are.
I think I have worked out how to do the links.
This is in the daily mail from a vaccine specialist oncologist discussing some of the common worries and concerns people have heard about the vaccine.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-9815821/What-young-people-told-Vaccine-expert-ANGUS-DALGLEISH-dismantles-beliefs-18-30s.html

 

[Weststander]

Not true... you are perpetuating myths, as does much else of your post.

The truth’s somewhere in between your arguments. 130,000 died within 28 days of having had Covid, NOT died due to Covid.

You’re correct, obviously, that many more others died from other causes.

 

[Weststander]

Not really. 130k deaths related to Covid in 18 months (and that's only those within 28 days of a test) whereas the 5 year average for flu is about 25k.

Not related to Covid. Died within 28 days of having had Covid.