Could Nigel Farage end up a great British political leader?

[Machiavelli]

The housing crisis is slightly misleading I think. Decades ago, people lived with their parents until they could afford to buy (it generally took two people to afford a mortgage so therefore done via marriage or living together) or earned enough money to pay rent. There were less houses because of the war although in the 60s very inferior flats were thrown together as a 'solution'
As people are far more mobile and many more going to university now, there is a greater demand for housing whether rented or bought. Families splitting up are another cause. There are more single people living alone than every before. Immigration is not the main cause.

I find it very worrying when politicians blame immigrants for the wrongs in society where economics are more to blame. That sounds very clumsy but I am not that articulate in expressing what I mean.

You're quite right in your analysis. Immigrants have got nothing to do with the 'housing crisis'. The housing crisis is a result of a massive failure to build and renovate houses over the past three decades. This is very widely recognised and has been for a long time, go back to the Barker review conducted about a decade ago, for instance. It's a shame that bashldsir doesn't recognise that the party that he used to vote for has made a commitment to build 200,000 properties a year by 2020 which will not only begin to turn around the housing crisis, but will also help address the jobs crisis that we've also been experiencing for the past three decades or so. This is in stark contrast to UKIP's immigration policy that will have a negative impact on jobs -- 'regaining control of our borders' will effectively mean excluding immigrants, the largest sector of which come to this country to attend our universities which have an international reputation despite drastic underfunding over a number of decades, and which are under assault from other directions too. You exclude foreign students, and you lose a significant number of jobs that are useful to our economy.
One final point: the housing crisis is also due to our inefficient use of housing, as Danny Dorling has exhaustively charted in his recent book.

 

[mikeyjh]

I'm not convinced you're correct with that last bit. While I agree Farage was a bit clumsy in that "interview" it wouldn't change my mind. More so, the more I see UKIP attacked the more I'm willing I am to consider voting for them. I believe in CONTROLLED immigration ( Oz style ) yet I've been called a xenophobe and racist. The muck raking against UKIP and it's supporters is more in excess of anything you see against the other parties.

What did Robinson expect him to say for heavens sake ? I wonder if he'd like to carry out a similar aggressive interview with the Kinnocks who, despite having a history of wanting out of the EU and it's previous guises, have benefited personally rather well from it.

By rational, I'm trying to distinguish those with with anti europe agenda and those wanting controls on immigration to those and those on the, shall we say, right hand flank of the party.

I think Robinson was perfectly entitled to ask him that question, it is hyporitical of Farage to suggest that Europeans should not be entitled to work in less skilled jobs, but okay to employ a european as his secretary. The fact that he didn't have an answer does question his ability to be a credible party leader.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Electoral Commission to write to UKIP to "seek clarification" about Nigel Farage's constituency office after Times allegations

You're quite right in your analysis. Immigrants have got nothing to do with the 'housing crisis'. The housing crisis is a result of a massive failure to build and renovate houses over the past three decades. This is very widely recognised and has been for a long time, go back to the Barker review conducted about a decade ago, for instance. It's a shame that bashldsir doesn't recognise that the party that he used to vote for has made a commitment to build 200,000 properties a year by 2020 which will not only begin to turn around the housing crisis, but will also help address the jobs crisis that we've also been experiencing for the past three decades or so. This is in stark contrast to UKIP's immigration policy that will have a negative impact on jobs -- 'regaining control of our borders' will effectively mean excluding immigrants, the largest sector of which come to this country to attend our universities which have an international reputation despite drastic underfunding over a number of decades, and which are under assault from other directions too. You exclude foreign students, and you lose a significant number of jobs that are useful to our economy.
One final point: the housing crisis is also due to our inefficient use of housing, as Danny Dorling has exhaustively charted in his recent book.

I agree with you that the MAIN cause of the housing problem is successive governments inability to actually build any new homes. That said you can't discount immigrants also increasing the need for housing. Where are these extra 120k people a year meant to live ?

Also interested in your use of the word "exclude" - UKIP policy is to manage immigration not to exclude all immigrants. Please point me to their policy that says they will exclude foreign students ?

 

[Mellotron]

I read about that this morning. Funny.

What a fcking hypocrite.

Why don't UKIP and all the other right of centre parties just cut to the chase, and admit that when they say 'foreigners' they actually mean 'some TYPES of foreigners'.

"People with different colour skin"?

 

[Machiavelli]

I agree with you that the MAIN cause of the housing problem is successive governments inability to actually build any new homes. That said you can't discount immigrants also increasing the need for housing. Where are these extra 120k people a year meant to live ?

Also interested in your use of the word "exclude" - UKIP policy is to manage immigration not to exclude all immigrants. Please point me to their policy that says they will exclude foreign students ?

I'm really not interested in what their policy states. Farage even said that their manifesto at the last election was barking -- like a stopped clock, he's got to be right at some point. What I'm far more interested in is how right-wing populist parties act when they're in power. We have plenty of historical examples of this and I can assure you, it isn't pretty.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I agree with you that the MAIN cause of the housing problem is successive governments inability to actually build any new homes. That said you can't discount immigrants also increasing the need for housing. Where are these extra 120k people a year meant to live ?

How many people emigrate as opposed to those who immigrate?
The immigrants often share housing with many in one house so that they can afford to rent properties.

 

[Mellotron]

I agree with you that the MAIN cause of the housing problem is successive governments inability to actually build any new homes. That said you can't discount immigrants also increasing the need for housing. Where are these extra 120k people a year meant to live ?

Also interested in your use of the word "exclude" - UKIP policy is to manage immigration not to exclude all immigrants. Please point me to their policy that says they will exclude foreign students ?

Not "extra". Look up the stats on immigration and emigration.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

You can't fix some of the problems in the country without first fixing some of the problems that are causing it.
Here is UKIPs stand on Immigration, this makes sense to me. There is nothig racist, xenophobic about it. It's common sense.
Why can't the party I used to vote for Labour be more like this. They caused most of this crap in the first place.

• Regain control of our borders and of immigration - only possible by leaving the EU.

• Immigrants must financially support themselves and their dependents for 5 years. This means private health insurance (except emergency medical care), private education and private housing - they should pay into the pot before they take out of it.

• A points-based visa system and time-limited work permits.

• Proof of private health insurance must be a precondition for immigrants and tourists to enter the UK.

Given the majority of immigrants are US, Aussie and Chinese how will leaving the EU shore up your borders?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Not "extra". Look up the stats on immigration and emigration.

The "extra" in 2012 was 176k - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23878689

 

[Biscuit]

How many people emigrate as opposed to those who immigrate?
The immigrants often share housing with many in one house so that they can afford to rent properties.

Exactly this. For example in 2013, 320,000 left the UK. When you look at migration figures you need to look at net migration - or the difference between the number of people coming to live in the UK and those emigrating.

 

[Mellotron]

The "extra" in 2012 was 176k - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23878689

Ah fair enough. First year in something like 10 or 11 that immigration has gone UP, isn't it?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Exactly this. For example in 2013, 320,000 left the UK. When you look at migration figures you need to look at net migration - or the difference between the number of people coming to live in the UK and those emigrating.

182k extra incoming in 2013

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Electoral Commission to write to UKIP to "seek clarification" about Nigel Farage's constituency office after Times allegations

Ah fair enough. First year in something like 10 or 11 that immigration has gone UP, isn't it?

Nope -

View attachment 53020

 

[Biscuit]

182k extra incoming in 2013

That's a large number. But figures currently show immigrants are putting more into the system than they are taking out. How many of those 182,000 are front line NHS staff for example?

I get your point about where will they live, but stopping migration isn't dealing with the cause of the problem which is, as I've stated before, fueled by cheap bank loans and 5% deposit schemes. That's what needs addressing. The average house price is well out of sync to the salary/affordability of the average young person and that's not the fault of immigrants - many of whom come here and contribute to our society and economy.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

"People with different colour skin"?

Your wrong.

 

[Mellotron]

Your wrong.

"How could I hate women? My MUM'S one."



My wrong what?

 

[Deleted member 22389]

"How could I hate women? My MUM'S one."



My wrong what?

Not going down that road, but your wrong if you think UKIP are R's

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Your wrong.

I wonder how many immigrants have better grammar than you?

 

[Billy the Fish]

I quite like Farage.

I don't agree with his views on immigration because they're quite clearly boll0cks.

I think you need someone like him though, even if it's just to piss off all the other knobheads like dave, george, the two eddies and the whole of the EU parliament

 

[Mellotron]

Not going down that road, but your wrong if you think UKIP are R's

Institutionally racist? Perhaps not. Are there a higher proportion of racists in UKIP than in LibLabCon? Definitely.