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[Politics] Brexit

If there was a second Brexit referendum how would you vote?


  • Total voters
    1,081


kevo

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2008
9,106
Excellent piece in the Financial Times on the economic impact of Brexit. Everyone voting on Thursday should read this:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/0260242c-370b-11e6-9a05-82a9b15a8ee7.html#axzz4CFqR0Dic

Some of the key points below (I had a leaflet through my door this morning with a headline about the £350m a week. How can Leave continue to peddle what is obviously a blatant lie?!)


Immigration

EU migrants tend to be young and are likely to be employed. They contribute more to the UK public finances than they take out and much more than UK born citizens.



What about the £350m a week sent to Brussels?

This figure — widely promoted by the Leave campaign — is not correct. When pushed, the Leave campaign accepts that Britain’s net contributions are much lower after the rebate secured by Margaret Thatcher and payments to farmers, poorer regions and science. Britain does, however, make net contributions to the EU budget of £8.5bn in 2015, about £163m a week. This would be saved once the UK had left the EU and Britain would get to choose how it spent the money currently allocated for farmers and others by common EU rules.

A net contribution of £8.5bn is roughly £1 out of every £100 the British government spends every year, so any savings will be small. The Institute for Fiscal Studies and others have pointed out that if leaving the EU implies slower growth, the net saving would be wiped out through lower tax revenues and higher benefit spending — even if the growth reduction was merely 0.6 per cent. The IFS estimated that if the economic assessments of Brexit were accurate, leaving the EU would cost UK taxpayers between £20bn and £40bn a year.

There is no doubt that the effect of EU membership on national income is more important for the UK public finances than the annual membership fee. This is the dominant issue and a small hit would leave Britain’s public sector worse off.



Overall Conclusion

Rarely has there been such a consensus among economists, as there is on the damage that Brexit would wreak on the British economy. The warning may turn out to be wrong — but it is difficult to ignore.
 






5ways

Well-known member
Sep 18, 2012
2,217
You've almost got me....love Daniel Craig! But how is Q voting??

Just for fun:
brex-01%20v2.png
 


Soulman

New member
Oct 22, 2012
10,966
Sompting
Excellent piece in the Financial Times on the economic impact of Brexit. Everyone voting on Thursday should read this:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/0260242c-370b-11e6-9a05-82a9b15a8ee7.html#axzz4CFqR0Dic

Some of the key points below (I had a leaflet through my door this morning with a headline about the £350m a week. How can Leave continue to peddle what is obviously a blatant lie?!)


Immigration

EU migrants tend to be young and are likely to be employed. They contribute more to the UK public finances than they take out and much more than UK born citizens.



What about the £350m a week sent to Brussels?

This figure — widely promoted by the Leave campaign — is not correct. When pushed, the Leave campaign accepts that Britain’s net contributions are much lower after the rebate secured by Margaret Thatcher and payments to farmers, poorer regions and science. Britain does, however, make net contributions to the EU budget of £8.5bn in 2015, about £163m a week. This would be saved once the UK had left the EU and Britain would get to choose how it spent the money currently allocated for farmers and others by common EU rules.

A net contribution of £8.5bn is roughly £1 out of every £100 the British government spends every year, so any savings will be small. The Institute for Fiscal Studies and others have pointed out that if leaving the EU implies slower growth, the net saving would be wiped out through lower tax revenues and higher benefit spending — even if the growth reduction was merely 0.6 per cent. The IFS estimated that if the economic assessments of Brexit were accurate, leaving the EU would cost UK taxpayers between £20bn and £40bn a year.

There is no doubt that the effect of EU membership on national income is more important for the UK public finances than the annual membership fee. This is the dominant issue and a small hit would leave Britain’s public sector worse off.



Overall Conclusion

Rarely has there been such a consensus among economists, as there is on the damage that Brexit would wreak on the British economy. The warning may turn out to be wrong — but it is difficult to ignore.

I read this bit in bold letters..... "The warning may turn out to be wrong ".......yep it sure could.
 


Steve in Japan

Well-known member
NSC Patron
May 9, 2013
4,465
East of Eastbourne
Excellent piece in the Financial Times on the economic impact of Brexit. Everyone voting on Thursday should read this:

EU migrants tend to be young and are likely to be employed. They contribute more to the UK public finances than they take out and much more than UK born citizens.[/B]

[/B]

Eureka!! Thats it!! We should kick the Brits out and turn the place over to EU migrants. Job done. Everyones a winner. Well, not the Brits obviously (but that's their fault, lazy fakers).
 






kevo

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2008
9,106
If you believe that its a good idea to stay in the E.U then raise your right hand.

Now use it to SLAP your face your an IDIOT !

Just for fun. :)

Did you mean YOU'RE an idiot :)
 






Eeyore

Colonel Hee-Haw of Queen's Park
NSC Patron
Apr 5, 2014
23,609
Remain now 1/4 on or 2/9 on with most bookies. I sense that the 'don't know's' are likely settling for the status quo. As much as polls etc can be out, I do feel this is all done and dusted now.
 


Remain now 1/4 on or 2/9 on with most bookies. I sense that the 'don't know's' are likely settling for the status quo. As much as polls etc can be out, I do feel this is all done and dusted now.
As a Brexiteer, I fear you are right. I didn't think we could win. I now hope for a very close race and then sit by and watch as the French and German elections in 2017 do our job for us. The whole thing will tumble quicker than when I play jenga with my daughter. Britain will again have to pick up the pieces and I can go na na na na na to all you remainers whilst swigging whiskey and tidying up my cardboard box home.

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk
 


pastafarian

Well-known member
Sep 4, 2011
11,902
Sussex
I've also got this list of Nobel prize winners in economics if you're interested:
No thanks
i would rather see a list of ordinary people who have:

suffered when their small business runs up unnecessary red tape costs.(who dont even trade with the EU)
fishermen who have had their livelihood smashed by fishing quotas.
people who have found difficulty with school places,healthcare or housing in part due to mass immigration.
low skilled workers who have struggled to find employment or found their wages depressed.
victims of crime by criminals we seem to be struggling to deport
ordinary folk who passionately believe this nation should be more accountable to the people we actually elect.

you know the type,the ones that you hear occasionally on the radio or TV who are desperate to be heard.
Ive had a belly full of economists,big business,big finance and bankers worried about their next bonus if its all the same to you.

Vote Leave
 




No thanks
i would rather see a list of ordinary people who have:

suffered when their small business runs up unnecessary red tape costs.(who dont even trade with the EU)
fishermen who have had their livelihood smashed by fishing quotas.
people who have found difficulty with school places,healthcare or housing in part due to mass immigration.
low skilled workers who have struggled to find employment or found their wages depressed.
victims of crime by criminals we seem to be struggling to deport
ordinary folk who passionately believe this nation should be more accountable to the people we actually elect.

you know the type,the ones that you hear occasionally on the radio or TV who are desperate to be heard.
Ive had a belly full of economists,big business,big finance and bankers worried about their next bonus if its all the same to you.

Vote Leave
That is bang on brother!

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk
 


Eeyore

Colonel Hee-Haw of Queen's Park
NSC Patron
Apr 5, 2014
23,609
As a Brexiteer, I fear you are right. I didn't think we could win. I now hope for a very close race and then sit by and watch as the French and German elections in 2017 do our job for us. The whole thing will tumble quicker than when I play jenga with my daughter. Britain will again have to pick up the pieces and I can go na na na na na to all you remainers whilst swigging whiskey and tidying up my cardboard box home.

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

You live in East Preston. It'll at least be re-enforced cardboard.
 


pastafarian

Well-known member
Sep 4, 2011
11,902
Sussex
However, instead of trying to resolve the problems ourselves we spend years blaming immigrants (who contribute much more per head to the economy than the avge Brit). Even this morning the Leave campaign is relentlessly banging the immigration drum. Very depressing...

On unskilled immigration the analysis is rather clear: at low (e.g. minimum) wages these immigrants pay little tax and probably are net recipients from HMRC via tax credits. In addition, they get benefits in kind from the NHS, free education and social housing. The net balance of the benefits they bring is plainly negative.

The Table following shows two calculations for typical unskilled immigrant households:

Table of taxes and benefits

Single Person
@ £7.20*37hrs=£266.4p.w. Tax=£11.08 (£576.16p.a), NIC=£13.36 (£694.72p.a) Total=£1270.88
Benefits: No means tested benefits at all. No WTC, no HB, No Rates rebate.
Average NHS cost across total population (England)=£2120pa per person
Couple plus 2 primary-age children, stay-at-home mum
@ £7.20*37hrs=£266.4p.w. Tax=£11.08 (£576.16p.a), NIC=£13.36 (£694.72p.a) Total=£1,270.88
Benefits: WTC £33.05 (£1,718.60p.a.), CTC £117.50 (£6,110p.a), Housing Benefit=£55.74 (£2,898.48p.a), child benefit £34.40 (£1,788.80p.a.) Total=£240.69 (£12,515.88p.a)
Primary education per pupil average £4750*2=£9,500
NHS cost average per person across total population (England) £2,120*4=£8,480

Total net cost (shown as negative):
Single person
Taxes £1,271 - NHS cost £2,120= -£849 per annum

Couple
Taxes £1.271 - (NHS+Education+benefits £30,496)= -£29,225 per annum per household
https://economistsforbrexit.squarespace.com/the-economics-of-unskilled-immigration
 




pastafarian

Well-known member
Sep 4, 2011
11,902
Sussex
The really big question as we approach Thursday, is who is going to finish top referendum poster?

5ways leads the way for Remain, but the next 5 places are Leavers with over 1600 posts between them. Two Professors is making a late charge with his no space after punctuation. It is all to play for!

Screen Shot 2016-06-21 at 11.25.12.png

If the winning line is when the official verdict is given then 5ways has this licked for sure.
But more importantly One Direction has racked up an astonishing 159 posts of ......i dont care,im not voting,voting IN or OUT wont make a blind bit of difference to anything.
Its almost charming (in a monster raving loony party sort of way)

Got to love NSC
 


pastafarian

Well-known member
Sep 4, 2011
11,902
Sussex
I am going to post this link again because it is relevant. A blog by a leftie journalist who has struggled with exactly this question. As has Owen Jones of the Guardian. And I am pretty sure Jeremy Corbyn has too.

https://medium.com/@jackshenker/an-alternative-euref-reading-list-944be09f3327#.bl43ywnzd

Its not simply "struggled " with though.(for some)
Its a cop out and a sell out of the very people they like to remind everyone they fight for. A total betrayal if you like.

And why?
Because of their blind hatred of the Tories and the fact they are incapable of putting this aside for one moment and considering the bigger issue of the good of the country.

The most astonishing thing is their own self admission of their own incompetence that they will never be in a position of power to even consider being able to champion workers rights if their was a brexit,they seem to have resigned themselves to tory rule forever.

Whatever the outcome im sure voters will remember come 2020 Corbyn and the gang siding with The Big Corporate EU Establishment
 


pastafarian

Well-known member
Sep 4, 2011
11,902
Sussex
A German friend has just mentioned about people in the debate suggesting 'Britain is the greatest country in the world'.

''Germany experimented with this "ueber alles" concept, and I can wholeheartedly advise that imagined superiority is a shite idea''. :lolol:

Stands to reason someone has to be the greatest nation in the world.
I think its us as well,even if the remain camp continue to tell us we are crap and will be forever crap if we dont hold the hand of the EU
who do you think then is the greatest nation if not Britain?
 


pastafarian

Well-known member
Sep 4, 2011
11,902
Sussex
The trouble with looking forward is there are few facts, for that certainty you need to look backwards. But some issues can be forecast with reasonable probability

Like the fact Turkey WILL eventually join the EU you mean.
I have yet to hear anyone say it will never ever happen ever......have you?
 




pastafarian

Well-known member
Sep 4, 2011
11,902
Sussex
"And if we vote leave and take back control i believe that this Thursday can be our countries Independence Day "
Boris Johnson absolutely smashes it

 


pastafarian

Well-known member
Sep 4, 2011
11,902
Sussex
If you won't listen to the entire economics profession perhaps you need to be shaken, not stirred?

Clfk6TSWMAAXpoF.jpg



Matron!

This man is an impostor

The real Bond would never wear a T shirt straight out of the box for a photo op with the fold marks still obvious.
Moneypenny would have ironed the crap out of it first if she thought she could get a good dicking out of it.
 


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