[Politics] Brexit

[Berty23]

I still don't understand what could be more democratic than a final vote on the deal.

1. Take the deal and leave
2. Reject the deal and leave
3. Revoke article 50 and remain as we are.

Obviously this would need preferences so it is not just a remain stitch up so you needed to get over 50% to win.

If the will of the people is to leave then we will leave but we will leave in a way the British people support. What could be more democratic than voting on a reality rather than empty promises/threats from both sides?

 

[CHAPPERS]

If people are happy to leave even though we have no idea of the impact of doing so then fair enough, let them be happy. It's like walking across a road without looking though.

 

[Trufflehound]

I did read on here that you and our wife had obtained Dutch passports. I’m pleased you have found some security from this chaos.

Cheers. Yes, I'm personally sorted now, and lifted the Sword of Damocles off my own head, but I still feel it's all been a lot of unnecessary effort and expense.

On the plus side, I now have dual nationality, which makes me a Brexiteer's worst nightmare: I'm Johnny Foreigner with a UK passport and the legal right to come over there and steal their jobs...

Are you all sorted in Germany?

 

[Pinkie Brown]

I hadn’t really thought about this, but I’d hazard a guess and say that more people in your situation would have voted remain. I wonder how many were excluded from this, seemingly gerrymandered, referendum?

I did read on here that you and our wife had obtained Dutch passports. I’m pleased you have found some security from this chaos.

Its outrageous so many British Citizens were denied a vote in a referendum, where the outcome would directly impact their life. The referendum was flawed in many ways, the 15 year rule being a prime example. Another reason why a final decision should go to 2nd referendum with the options listed by @Berty23 above. ALL British Citizens should get the opportunity to vote. It was Tory policy to dump the 15 year rule under Cameron. Under Mayhem, it appears to have been kicked into the long grass.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...abroad-denied-uk-general-election-vote-tories

 

[Baldseagull]

I still don't understand what could be more democratic than a final vote on the deal.

1. Take the deal and leave
2. Reject the deal and leave
3. Revoke article 50 and remain as we are.

Obviously this would need preferences so it is not just a remain stitch up so you needed to get over 50% to win.

If the will of the people is to leave then we will leave but we will leave in a way the British people support. What could be more democratic than voting on a reality rather than empty promises/threats from both sides?

The problem here, if we ask this question before the exit date and have not entered any transition period, we should be able to retain membership on current terms (some think this requires EU member approval, others that it is a right). However if we pass the "leave" date and are in a transition period, we would be voting to rejoin, and the arrangements for Britain are bound to be lesser than what we have now.

The Brexit loons know this and are desperate for us to get to that date, when changing our minds becomes less simple, and less attractive.

 

[CHAPPERS]

Warning - experts. Feel free to ignore!

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/pirs.12334/full

First, the UK and its regions are far more vulnerable to trade-related risks of Brexit than other EU member states and their regions. Our results also mirror the broad thrust of the arguments of other analyses (Dhingra et al., 2017). As such, the UK is far more dependent on a relatively seamless and comprehensive free trade deal than the other EU member states. Mercantilist arguments popular in the UK media, which posit that the UK trade deficit with the rest of Europe implies that on economic grounds other EU member states will be eager to agree a free trade deal with the UK, are not correct.

 

[BigGully]

Cheers. Yes, I'm personally sorted now, and lifted the Sword of Damocles off my own head, but I still feel it's all been a lot of unnecessary effort and expense.

On the plus side, I now have dual nationality, which makes me a Brexiteer's worst nightmare: I'm Johnny Foreigner with a UK passport and the legal right to come over there and steal their jobs...

Are you all sorted in Germany?

Oh I am sorry, you should have given me a ring and told me how I should vote due to your own personal circumstances rather than me voting based on my own considerations and perhaps how it might effect my own family and friends, righto

 

[cheshunt seagull]

A huge majority in parliament voted to give the people a referendum. A referendum the government promised to enact, 17.4 million won the day and parliament voted by a huge majority to trigger article 50. Then followed a general election where 80% voted for parties promising to enact Brexit I expect it to happen .... yes very, very, democratic. The outcomes of elections should be honoured or what's the point in holding them.

People trying to subvert or reverse it are contemptible undemocratic loons.

I am interested in the use of the word ‘subvert’ and what this says about many Brexiter’s mindsets. It implies that anyone who advocates democratic consultation for the purposes of clarification, to present choices or to address major constitutional issues is actually trying to sabotage the whole process. In fact any view expressed by someone with remainer tendencies is to be distrusted and their views can be discounted. This position justifies vilification, hysterical accusations of treason which at best seek to shout down any argument and, at worst, put people in actual danger. I have no more rights than a leave voter from Barnsley but I certainly have no fewer; this is a pretty fundamental tenet of democracy.

Had the referendum gone 48-52 the other way I would fully expect Farage to jump on any issue he could to put the case for further consultation. It is unlikely that I would have agreed with him but I would recognise that it is a key component of a democracy that those representing a proportion of the population can express their views and challenge the status quo.

You need to think hard about who the ‘undemocratic loons’ actually are.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Oh I am sorry, you should have given me a ring and told me how I should vote due to your own personal circumstances rather than me voting based on my own considerations and perhaps how it might effect my own family and friends, righto

Selfish to the end. Despicable.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Are you all sorted in Germany?

Personally I have to wait another 2 years before I can start the German passport application. I cannot actually apply until 3 years though. But I need to get to B2 in my German as well; this will most likely be the rate-limiting item. The wife is half-German and she is looking at this; we believe it hinges on how her mother became a British citizen. If she gets a German passport then my situation expedites.

 

[Trufflehound]

Oh I am sorry, you should have given me a ring and told me how I should vote due to your own personal circumstances rather than me voting based on my own considerations and perhaps how it might effect my own family and friends, righto

Pardon my ignorance, but wtf has any of that got to do with my post?

 

[nicko31]

Warning - experts. Feel free to ignore!

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/pirs.12334/full

Damned pesky experts with their hard facts.

 

[Moshe Gariani]

Damned pesky experts with their hard facts.

What do they know? Our exports are UP despite Brexit. Are the French suddenly going to give up eating Cheddar cheese and drinking Harveys' beer...?

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

What do they know? Our exports are UP despite Brexit. Are the French suddenly going to give up eating Cheddar cheese and drinking Harveys' beer...?

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Why would a French person eat cheddar and drink Harvey’s?

 

[Titanic]

Why would a French person eat cheddar and drink Harvey’s?

Whoooosh!

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Whoooosh!

Phew. I was about to turn against the EU.

 

[GT49er]

The Brexit loons know this and are desperate for us to get to that date, when changing our minds becomes less simple, and less attractive.

.....and the Remain loons aren't desperate to stop this happening?

Or as a remainer, do you just think you have a right to go name-calling? How much would it hurt you to use, say, supporters instead of loons? Project Fear didn't work - it put people off; ultimately, name-calling will do the same.

 

[BigGully]

Selfish to the end. Despicable.

Says the most 'me me me me' poster on this Board.

 

[Blue3]

I am so envious of anyone being able obtain a passport to remain within the EU I have been trying for the past year several routes all to no avail apparently I am just to British!

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Says the most 'me me me me' poster on this Board.

Care to show an example of my selfishness? Or have you muddled your language once again?