A Plea To All Of NSC

[CheeseRolls]

I do feel for the families that have suffered as a result, but the whole thing happened due to the scousers riotting and trying to break in without a ticket. The people paying for this should be the scousers that caused it. Typical thing to do though, riot, slag the police off and misbehave then blame them for not controlling the scumbags! Its a disaster that should be remembered, but not shoved down the publics throat as anti-police propaganda. Run a memorial for it yearly and give the proceeds to the effected families, but do f*** off with the justice campaign.

If everyone shared your simplistic view of events the campaign would have lasted all of 5 minutes. The fact that it is still running 22 years later suggests that plenty of people have looked into this in a lot more detail than you have and have decided that the official view of events is incomplete.

 

[Beach Hut]

Since when was it forgotten? Idiot.

Well we never seem to see much remembrance of it yearly like we do with this do we ?

I'll wait for the song to download though, surely around May ?

 

[Sussex Nomad]

And for those saying the campaign is going no where, over the past year a team has been assigned to re investigate the cases, with these hidden files been open to review.

With money you are asking us to pay?

 

[pasty]

If everyone shared your simplistic view of events the campaign would have lasted all of 5 minutes. The fact that it is still running 22 years later suggests that plenty of people have looked into this in a lot more detail than you have and have decided that the official view of events is incomplete.

Cause and effect though. No matter how you look at events, or what ever slant you put on it, if more fans than had tickets had not turned up, it would not have happened. End of.

Yes, maybe the police are at fault for opening the gate - but if the ticketless fans had not been there they would not have had to

Yes, there were probably errors in the stewarding of the situation in the ground - but if the ticketless fans had not been there, those mistakes would not have been made.

To me, it appears that the "justice" campaign wants to blame everyone and anyone except the fans who possibly should not have been there in the first place, then rushed and bundled themselves into the ground causing the crush.

 

[Sussex Nomad]

And as has been asked and yet to be answered, what exactly do you want from this outcome? Blame? People put behind bars? Large payouts? What exactly do you want?

 

[Mellotron]

Justice isn't all about The S*n, it's about files and records that were hidden from the courts being released, files and facts that protected the authorities and their actions, and most importantly any records past the '3.15 cut off point' that have never been able to be reviewed in court. And for those saying the campaign is going no where, over the past year a team has been assigned to re investigate the cases, with these hidden files been open to review.

Haven't really answered my question mate? What exactly needs to happen for the whole event to finally be allowed to rest in peace?

 

[Ex-Staffs Gull]

Ibrox, Bradford, Hillsborough, heysel a number of venues in Africa and south America have all had tragic loss of life. I would like to know why, if all these facts that implicate the police are known about: hence the investigation, then surely it is a public / government job to investigate. If they are not known about, but merely speculation, then i question the need to continually rake over the coals. Tbh I never bought the sun because it was always full of shite, good luck to the campaign though, if it helps grieving relatives in anyway, trouble is just as they are cynical about a cover up, I am natually cynical about SOME of their motives.

 

[Easy 10]

The authorities were put under massive pressure by a large group of fans absolutely hellbent on getting into that ground.

The stadium was a deathtrap. The authorities were incompetent. The fans were out of control.

The perfect storm. If you are searching for blame then you can point your finger at any one of those factors and take your choice, but the fact of the matter is, the three combined is the reason why 96 fans lost their lives - not one single factor was to blame, it was ALL THREE combined.

And the legacy is we all now have to sit down at football (despite what you'll see week-in, week-out on the Kop at Liverpool of all places, where to a man they STILL stand, all game).

 

[bhaexpress]

Cause and effect though. No matter how you look at events, or what ever slant you put on it, if more fans than had tickets had not turned up, it would not have happened. End of.

Yes, maybe the police are at fault for opening the gate - but if the ticketless fans had not been there they would not have had to

Yes, there were probably errors in the stewarding of the situation in the ground - but if the ticketless fans had not been there, those mistakes would not have been made.

To me, it appears that the "justice" campaign wants to blame everyone and anyone except the fans who possibly should not have been there in the first place, then rushed and bundled themselves into the ground causing the crush.

You sound like a Sun reader, mind you you're spot on. What good will all this campaigning do ? I suppose it's down to a bunch of scousers looking for a handout.

 

[Arkwright]

I think we are missing the point here, whether we agree or disagree with the events and the charity we are talking ill of the dead.

I hate this blame society that we live in.

Like all charities either you give or you walk on by. On this occassion I'll be walking on by but thanks.

 

[Shizuoka Dolphin]

I suppose it's down to a bunch of scousers looking for a handout.

Jesus WEPT.

 

[Lady Whistledown]

The stadium was a deathtrap. The authorities were incompetent. The fans were out of control.

The perfect storm. If you are searching for blame then you can point your finger at any one of those factors and take your choice, but the fact of the matter is, the three combined is the reason why 96 fans lost their lives - not one single factor was to blame, it was ALL THREE

Which is, surely, what any new enquiry, investigation or whatever, is going to show too, however much money is thrown at it? We all know what happened, whether the deaths after a certain cut off point are taken into account or not. The whole day was a total clusterfuck, reflecting years of decay in football and the general attitude, thanks to hooliganism, of the authorities towards football fans. Nobody set out to kill anyone, it was just a culmination of numerous factors coming together, with catastrophic consequences. They're never going to prosecute anyone now either, not after all this time. So i genuinely don't know what "justice" is going to be achieved.

 

[Easy 10]

Which is, surely, what any new enquiry, investigation or whatever, is going to show too, however much money is thrown at it? We all know what happened, whether the deaths after a certain cut off point are taken into account or not. The whole day was a total clusterfuck, reflecting years of decay in football and the general attitude, thanks to hooliganism, of the authorities towards football fans. Nobody set out to kill anyone, it was just a culmination of numerous factors coming together, with catastrophic consequences. They're never going to prosecute anyone now either, not after all this time. So i genuinely don't know what "justice" is going to be achieved.

Agreed.
"Justice" for the bereaved families would presumably be to have Chief Inspector Duckenfield and the other officers in charge that day locked up serving a sentence for manslaughter. Whilst the police were not blameless, neither were they the sole cause of the tragedy. I suppose its natural to want to point the finger of blame when you have lost someone, and to make them pay for your loss, but as you say, a new enquiry would uncover absolutely nothing we don't already know.

 

[Simster]

Haven't really answered my question mate? What exactly needs to happen for the whole event to finally be allowed to rest in peace?

The fact that this still hasn't been answered speaks volumes, IMO.

 

[Publius Ovidius]

to be fair to Aldo, all he did was ask if people wanted to help...if you don't then fine...walk on.

personally I have always been uncomfortable with this "justice for the 96" phrase as even looking at the footage time and time again, it was a unique situation with thousands arriving at the last minute and forcing their way in...it almost looked like if he hadn't have opened the gate, people would have died in teh crush outside. ( wasn't there a report that there was severe traffic problems that led to thousands being late - although the Nottingham Forest fans seemed to get there on time!)

 

[ROSM]

Every year this topic comes up and every year the same level of misinformed opinion stated as some level of 'fact' gets given (on both sides).

WE could just bounce the previous threads?

- we could cover off why the route from nottingham to the ground (from the south of the city) did not suffer the same issues as those arriving from the north and west of the city?

- we could cover off why fans not from merseyside had suffered similar issues years before (in the wolves v spurs semi finals)

- we could cover off the official justice taylor report that said the level of fans turning up without tickets had been overly exaggerated and that this was not a significant factor in the disaster

- we could cover off how the cctv tapes showing the view the officers had inside the stadium 'disappeared' from the control box before they were due to be taken as evidence.

In fact there are so many things we could go into, but it doesn't make one iota of difference because we go into it every year but still the same people make the same statements ignoring these pieces of evidence.

I share the concern that there were 39 innocent Italians who were killed in Brussels. I'm sure more should and could have been done. But that doesn't IN ANY WAY denigrate what happened in Sheffield that day.

I think the Sun made a huge error on what it believed were sound sources. It was wrong - it took them many years to apologise but now they have (at least 6 years ago). This was a side show and it should now be moved on from.

Edna has it (mostly) right in her summation. But I would add that there is more than a whiff of a police and authority botched attempt to cover up what was known before the incident and what could have been done to prevent it as the middle pen was already overcrowded before the door was opened and nobody sought to level the volumes. So is it justice that they're after? In their minds it probably is but even if the cctv appeared now and people started to tell the truth of what happened in the control box that day I'm sure there are still many on here who wouldn't believe it. After all they don't believe the findings of Justice Taylor!

 

[KneeOn]

If i've read right, the JTF96 campaign backs the Tylor Report.

As in, standing. Even though everything but the fact fans were standing caused the crush...

Which is utter crap.

 

[Barrel of Fun]

DIscovered through Oliver Kay on Twitter.

Hillsborough disaster: Families fight to force police to acknowledge cover-up over statements | Football | The Guardian

http://downloads.hfdinfo.com/3HFD20Qs.pdf

 

[sydney]

The red half of merseyside has a capability to feel persecuted like no other , i've got a few mates who are Reds and they will not stop banging on about it , boycott the sun , won't join dreamteam , lar lar lar ......causes no end of arguments particularly when the toffees amongst the group start giving them shyte.Hillsborough ranks up there with the best as far as cover-ups go , but as others have said ,it wasn't just the authorities to blame.

 

[Sock]

If we do give money, would does it do and what do they spend it on? Do they give it to the families of the dead, if so why do they need it?

Also, how come the Hillsborough disaster is the only remembered one? There have been loads of football crowd disasters over the years. There was one quite recently wasn't there? A game between Ivory Coast and Mali, 8 people were killed when a wall in one of the terraces collapsed. Drogba was playing, apparently he was quite upset about it.

Obviously it's very sad, 96 ordinary people losing their lives on a day which they were meant to enjoy a game of football. But now we must move on, not forget about it obviously but we can't be doing this every year, taking money out of people's pockets, for what exactly?