Brighton JIHADI killed by US bombers in Syria

Stat Brother · Sep 26, 2014

Dick Knights Mumm said:
You ?

Err no.

Being a former Call of Dutyist I'd also be laughing in the face of the opinionator.

But I do imagine some blowhard drawing a solid line between playing with guns on one of these newfangled video thingies that all the kids must have, and playing with guns in real life.

While completely ignoring the capitalist free market that they are raging against being the reason for producing the game.

Nitram · Sep 26, 2014

Stat Brother said:
Err no.

Being a former Call of Dutyist I'd also be laughing in the face of the opinionator.

But I do imagine some blowhard drawing a solid line between playing with guns on one of these newfangled video thingies that all the kids must have, and playing with guns in real life.

While completely ignoring the capitalist free market that they are raging against being the reason for producing the game.

Top marks for creating an argument and then arguing with yourself, very impressive.

Deleted member 22389 · Sep 26, 2014

Brighton Jihadi, now there are two words I thought I would never have to read. I suppose it's once again proof of the changing demographic in this country and in Sussex.

Wrong-Direction · Sep 26, 2014

Mustafa said:
The system is broken. Inequality is growing. People are becoming increasingly hateful and resentful. The future that many young people have to look forward to is more than likely a lifetime in a call centre with no realistic chance of ever owning their own home or fulfilling their childhood dreams.

...but then an opportunity comes along to make a real difference, become a hero, a martyr. Even get to personally address the president of the United States.

If you think about it, you can see why this could be appealing to a disillusioned, disenfranchised young person.

Behave! I'm a young person that knows I'm never going to own my own home blabla but I don't think going to kill people is gonna help!

BHAFC_Pandapops · Sep 26, 2014

Sign of the times I suppose. Children are no longer the responsibility of their parents.

Dick Knights Mumm · Sep 26, 2014

BHAFC_Pandapops said:
Sign of the times I suppose. Children are no longer the responsibility of their parents.

Well he was 19. He was an adult and made his own decisions. Strange to say it is a sign of the times.

Creaky · Sep 26, 2014

Mustafa said:
The system is broken. Inequality is growing. People are becoming increasingly hateful and resentful. The future that many young people have to look forward to is more than likely a lifetime in a call centre with no realistic chance of ever owning their own home or fulfilling their childhood dreams.

...but then an opportunity comes along to make a real difference, become a hero, a martyr. Even get to personally address the president of the United States.

If you think about it, you can see why this could be appealing to a disillusioned, disenfranchised young person.

Very much the situation at the start of WW1 when the army appealed for volunteers.

Nibble · Sep 26, 2014

So they become terrorists and jihadists because life's a bit tough in the UK at the moment. Spoilt brats basically. They should go and live in a Muslim country, they think people are downtrodden kin the UK? They don't know how lucky they are.

BHAFC_Pandapops · Sep 26, 2014

Dick Knights Mumm said:
Well he was 19. He was an adult and made his own decisions. Strange to say it is a sign of the times.

True, he was an adult able to make his own decisions, which is fair enough.

This isn't directly related to the death of this lad, but I hear more people than I ever have before uttering something along the lines of "well why didn't YOU do anything to stop him/her?" when something untoward happens.

Deleted member 22389 · Sep 26, 2014

Nibble said:
So they become terrorists and jihadists because life's a bit tough in the UK at the moment. Spoilt brats basically. They should go and live in a Muslim country, they think people are downtrodden kin the UK? They don't know how lucky they are.

All of them should live in a Muslim country if they are not happy with out culture, our laws, our democracy. Everybody forgets, they came here and not the other way around.
Basically if they don't like it, sod off and stop trying to change our country to suit you.

daveinprague · Sep 26, 2014

bashlsdir said:
All of them should live in a Muslim country if they are not happy with out culture, our laws, our democracy. Everybody forgets, they came here and not the other way around.
Basically if they don't like it, sod off and stop trying to change our country to suit you.

He went to Syria to fight the Assad regime, for what ever reasons. Not Britain.
What UK laws are being changed to accommodate Islam? Because a few dozen nitwits are screaming for Sharia, they are no less stupid than the rightwing groups. These arguments are getting ridiculous.

Nibble · Sep 26, 2014

bashlsdir said:
All of them should live in a Muslim country if they are not happy with out culture, our laws, our democracy. Everybody forgets, they came here and not the other way around.
Basically if they don't like it, sod off and stop trying to change our country to suit you.

I don't think many are trying to change our country. Those that aren't happy with the UK seem to be moving away anyway.

Buzzer · Sep 26, 2014

Mustafa said:
The system is broken. Inequality is growing. People are becoming increasingly hateful and resentful. The future that many young people have to look forward to is more than likely a lifetime in a call centre with no realistic chance of ever owning their own home or fulfilling their childhood dreams.

...but then an opportunity comes along to make a real difference, become a hero, a martyr. Even get to personally address the president of the United States.

If you think about it, you can see why this could be appealing to a disillusioned, disenfranchised young person.

Oh, do belt up. It's getting beyond pathetic, some of the claims you make. I work with loads of young muslims. None of them extremists nor ever will be, none of them recognisable from the dire picture you (always) paint.

Buzzer · Sep 26, 2014

Mustafa said:
Consider the ones that don't work, or live in poverty, with little to live for. It's natural for human beings to seek purpose in life, cult leaders can evidently persuade many that a holy war is one way to find it.

Jesus wept. Stop it. The vast majority of muslims in poverty are just normal people like you and me and just like frustrated poor youngsters from other backgrounds are extremely unlikely to turn to 'cult' figures because they're down on their luck. Little to live for? Who are you to tell them that?

The lad that got killed wasn't living in poverty, had prospects - he doesn't fit your profiling. Religious extremism got to him.

Please desist with the lazy racial stereotyping. You're talking out your arse.

spring hall convert · Sep 26, 2014

maltaseagull said:
You make a fair point but in fairness the Islamic extremists started this with the disgusting attacks on 9/11. The West hasn't reacted very effectively in either Iraq or Afghanistan granted. Perhaps they should have stayed out and just tracked down the leaders of the terror groups and brought them to justice one way or another.What is unforgivable is the Muslim clerics preaching violence and recruiting young men to go and kill in the name of the religion.

Looking in the right place would have been a good start.

One question. 9/11 was a horiffic terrorist atrocicity but how long are we going to let it dictate global foreign policy? The UK Establishment eventually had to forget the Grand bombing....

Buzzer · Sep 26, 2014

Mustafa said:
I haven't racially stereotyped anyone, I'm not saying it's just the Muslim youth who are disenfranchised and disillusioned with life, it's young people in general. They're not stupid, they can see how the world works. The difference is that with non-Muslims, finding purpose in a holy war is obviously not as likely - especially when you consider the current attitudes of society and the zeitgeist in regards to Muslims.

I think you're backtracking now. For a start, what other religion gives youngsters a chance to become a martyr? Be honest - you're talking specifically about Islam against which you painted this picture:

The future that many young people have to look forward to is more than likely a lifetime in a call centre with no realistic chance of ever owning their own home or fulfilling their childhood dreams....but then an opportunity comes along to make a real difference, become a hero, a martyr. Even get to personally address the president of the United States.

Utter sensationalist nonsense. There is no causal link between poverty and religious extremism. Neither is it true that large numbers of disenfranchised youngsters are turning to religious extremism. Most young muslims are not disenfranchised and don't need your pity. Most young British muslims are quite happy living in a secular country. Most young British muslims are just like most other youngsters. Most young British muslims would not find a purpose fighting a holy war. That's incredibly patronising of you. Stop trying to make victims out them.

Buzzer · Sep 26, 2014

Mustafa said:
You are twisting my words, I've never even hinted at most of these things. I completely agree that a vast majority of Muslims are just like anyone else, I particularly can vouch for that having spent a bulk of my life in a secular Muslim country.

I am just identifying the reasons why there are thousands of Muslims in Western nations that are being radicalised. I'm saying it is because of societal attitudes, violence in the Middle East, discrimination against Muslims and a dissatisfaction with life that is so great that they are prepared to sacrifice it.

Yes you did. Let's look:

Mustafa said:
...generally the youth of today are disenfranchised and see no meaningful future. It's no surprise to me how so many young Muslim men are so easily radicalised when their identity is despised and they can envision an opportunity to be a part of something significant, albeit evil, like this.

Mustafa said:
The system is broken. Inequality is growing. People are becoming increasingly hateful and resentful. The future that many young people have to look forward to is more than likely a lifetime in a call centre with no realistic chance of ever owning their own home or fulfilling their childhood dreams.

...but then an opportunity comes along to make a real difference, become a hero, a martyr.

Mustafa said:
Consider the ones that don't work, or live in poverty, or with little to live for. It's natural for human beings to seek purpose in life, cult leaders can evidently persuade many that a holy war is one way to find it.

You're the one telling everyone that the youth are disenfranchised. Generally, they're not. You're the one saying that generally the youth have no meaningful future. But they do. You're the one linking poverty and holy wars. I'm not twisting anything. You've written off a whole generation of youngsters with yet another tale of apocalyptic dystopia.

Nibble · Sep 26, 2014

They're not particularly disenfranchised just seduced by ridiculous extreme views and young enough to fall for it.

maltaseagull · Sep 26, 2014

spring hall convert said:
Looking in the right place would have been a good start.

One question. 9/11 was a horiffic terrorist atrocicity but how long are we going to let it dictate global foreign policy? The UK Establishment eventually had to forget the Grand bombing....

Not so sure we are letting it. Isn't everyone reacting to more recent events ? Albeit some of them caused by the reaction and actions taken as a result of 9/11.

Buzzer · Sep 26, 2014

Mustafa said:
I agree with those things. Of course the youth are disenfranchised, so are most adults.

But they're not. They really aren't. I suggest you revisit the meaning of the word 'disenfranchised'.

Mustafa said:
In regards to the link between poverty and holy wars, of course there is a link, in the same way poverty is linked with crime.

Have you any proof to back that claim up and if so you better get in touch with these chaps at Queen Mary University. They found the opposite - that terrorists are more likely to come from financially secure backgrounds.

http://www.qmul.ac.uk/media/news/items/smd/125815.html

http://www.clarionproject.org/analysis/queen-mary-univ-radicalization-not-caused-inequality

Their study concludes that there appears to be no strong link between poverty and extremism in the UK.

Mustafa said:
I think we will have to agree to disagree.

Yes, I think we will.

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