[Politics] Brexit

[drew]

a country's taxation law is outside the remit of EU treaties (aside from VAT), but they have powers around state aid. in this case they have tried to draw one issue into the scope of the other. Ireland has indeed offered a neat tax avoidance facility for international companies, what should be in question is whether or not this was on a special basis for Apple alone. the commision's press release is conspicuously lacking in detail what the special deal with Apple is, it explains how the internal accounting transfers profits to the "head office" account which isnt domicled in Ireland isnt due to pay tax. it even acknowledges that if the profits had been taxed elsewhere they wouldnt be subject to this investigation, contradicting the premise of state aid. i.e. if Apple tomorrow repatriated to US all Ireland HQ profits from 2003 onwards, there would be nothing to pay to Ireland.

But surely they would then owe the IRS a shed load of money.

The whole point is that Apple, and probably other large multinationals were offered sweetners to locate there. Surely that isn't taxation policy as it seems it wasn't available to all businesses as part of taxation law.

 

[BigGully]

Are you suggesting that less corporation tax means businesses flourish?

The business may flourish no matter what, the location of the business however may well be effected.

I will give it a week before similar deals, perhaps less in scale but similar no doubt are exposed within the EU region, why wouldn't a country negotiate favourable terms to entice new investment.

 

[beorhthelm]

But surely they would then owe the IRS a shed load of money.

The whole point is that Apple, and probably other large multinationals were offered sweetners to locate there. Surely that isn't taxation policy as it seems it wasn't available to all businesses as part of taxation law.

yes they would if they ever returned the profit to the US, but they leave it in the offshore Ireland (or other) office. that is where the avoidance is occuring, keeping the cash beyond the IRS and their high rates of corporation tax. the real point here is that Ireland say they dont offer any special concession to Apple, EU are saying that if a company takes advantage of their tax policy amounts to state aid. i dont know if the arrangments are available to all foreign companies, what i've read suggests it is, and the EU offer no evidence that it isnt.

 

[Alex Alex Dawson oo! oo!]

yes they would if they ever returned the profit to the US, but they leave it in the offshore Ireland (or other) office. that is where the avoidance is occuring, keeping the cash beyond the IRS and their high rates of corporation tax. the real point here is that Ireland say they dont offer any special concession to Apple, EU are saying that if a company takes advantage of their tax policy amounts to state aid. i dont know if the arrangments are available to all foreign companies, what i've read suggests it is, and the EU offer no evidence that it isnt.

Surely the points being made by the Commission after 3-4 years investigating this is that no tax has been paid anywhere and that the Irish tax rules as they have been applied to Apple are company specific, not applied generally etc and therefore the unpaid tax qualifies, in their opinion, essentially as state aid. OK, the Irish Govt may not see it like this, in which case they can appeal to the ECJ. This they have yet to decide upon but should they decide to do so then the details of some rather opaque corporate tax arrangements may well come into the public domain, just as the Commission will have to provide the evidence that lead to these conclusions.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The business may flourish no matter what, the location of the business however may well be effected.

I will give it a week before similar deals, perhaps less in scale but similar no doubt are exposed within the EU region, why wouldn't a country negotiate favourable terms to entice new investment.

I haven't seen any consistent evidence low Corp tax is beneficial specially over the long term. Germany has very high Corp taxes, higher than the UK, and it spanks the Irish and UK economies by most measures combined. Denmark the same. Equally there are some countries with low tax regimes doing very well. The U.K. with its huge population and the consequent challenges this brings needs tax.

Also. You seem to be missing my point and missing it consistently. I have no issue with countries negotiating favourable terms to entice new business, but at the very least they have to be transparent and open. I think secret deals with individual companies unavailable to others are simply wrong and unfair, and I don't feel I need to explain why. If you're okay with these sweetheart deals lets just agree to disagree as I don't think we will find any common ground on something so fundamental.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

i dont know if the arrangments are available to all foreign companies, what i've read suggests it is, and the EU offer no evidence that it isnt.

Im pretty confident if I moved my company to Ireland and paid **** all tax I'd get a knock on my door

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I will give it a week before similar deals, perhaps less in scale but similar no doubt are exposed within the EU region,

I'm in favour of this crack down so I hope you're correct.

 

[Mental Lental]

Seems to be a bit complicated this one......Apple are tax dodging twats but it does seem that the EU is fudging the legality behind their claim.....and trying to overrule a member nation's right to set it's own taxes....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...?WTmcid=tmgoff_soc_spf_fb&WT.mc_id=sf34793669

 

[BigGully]

I haven't seen any consistent evidence low Corp tax is beneficial specially over the long term. Germany has very high Corp taxes, higher than the UK, and it spanks the Irish and UK economies by most measures combined. Denmark the same. Equally there are some countries with low tax regimes doing very well. The U.K. with its huge population and the consequent challenges this brings needs tax.

Also. You seem to be missing my point and missing it consistently. I have no issue with countries negotiating favourable terms to entice new business, but at the very least they have to be transparent and open. I think secret deals with individual companies unavailable to others are simply wrong and unfair, and I don't feel I need to explain why. If you're okay with these sweetheart deals lets just agree to disagree as I don't think we will find any common ground on something so fundamental.

Any sizeable business which might impact positively on the prosperity of any country, Germany included might have some favourable terms against those smaller business that do not, I agree it is not entirely 'fair', but if the outcomes become beneficial to the local communities, it might off set any decreased tax revenue by the benefits to the local economy and workforce, its a conundrum for any political power.

Even if Germany were holier than thou in respect to corporation tax, you can bet your bottom deutsche mark that some major deals have been struck on the back of Germany's political and economic power ahead of another nation with similar claims for that business to locate to them, they flex their political muscle continually ahead of other nations to entice inward investment.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Pound jumps as UK manufacturing posts joint biggest rebound in 25 years

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...manufacturing-posts-biggest-jump-in-25-years/

Funny, that. The “experts” were not just a little bit wrong but horrendously, hopelessly so.

The Markit/CIPS Purchasing Managers’ Index (PMI) jumped to a 10-month high of 53.3 in August, after tumbling to a three-year low of 48.3 in July in the immediate aftermath of the Brexit vote; it was the biggest month-on-month surge in a quarter of a century and one that confounded the doom-mongers, yet again.

Yet not a single one of the well-paid economists polled by Bloomberg even came close to predicting the extent of the rebound, driven in part by the lower pound: just three forecast any growth at all (a modest rise to just 50.5, as it happens, which at least got the direction of travel right)...

I can understand why Brexiteers would be tempted to gloat. They were ridiculed, demonised and accused of having destroyed the economy by some Remainers in the ugly, hysterical days immediately after the vote. But the fact that some Remainers behaved appallingly is no reason for Brexiteers to do the same.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/09/01/its-time-for-the-brexit-bears-to-calm-down/

Gloat free zone 'experts' pah.

 

[Simster]

I really can't be doing with looking at economic figures now, whether it's pro Brexit articles above, or the plummeting value of the pound. None of it means an awful lot until we are a few years out of the EU. I guess we will reap what we sow in around five years. Personally, I still don't think it will end well.

 

[yxee]

Im pretty confident if I moved my company to Ireland and paid **** all tax I'd get a knock on my door

And it would probably be Enda coming with a welcome party.

 

[vegster]

Makes you wonder who is in charge when companies can have countries in thrall. Even to the extent that Ireland say they don't want Apple's tax money! Compare this to my recently introduced ( enforced by the government) company pension plan, aged 55 they have started taking a whole 1% of my wages as my contribution which they will generously match! On my wages the combined amount should amount to about £22 a month thus guaranteeing a blissful twilight to my life. This from a company that trades on almost every high street and gets all profits channelled to Guernsey.

 

[yxee]

Makes you wonder who is in charge when companies can have countries in thrall. Even to the extent that Ireland say they don't want Apple's tax money! Compare this to my recently introduced ( enforced by the government) company pension plan, aged 55 they have started taking a whole 1% of my wages as my contribution which they will generously match! On my wages the combined amount should amount to about £22 a month thus guaranteeing a blissful twilight to my life. This from a company that trades on almost every high street and gets all profits channelled to Guernsey.

The governments are not naïve. You think half the companies headquartered in Ireland would be there with 20% corporation tax?!

 

[Jim D]

The governments are not naïve. You think half the companies headquartered in Ireland would be there with 20% corporation tax?!

And do you think any of these companies believe they're paying their fair share of tax?

 

[Stat Brother]

***Shock horror***
Dale Stephens + inane 'what if' ramblings have sent this all the way down to page 3.
We can't have than now can we


Brexit protest: March for Europe rallies held across UK

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-uk-leaves-the-eu-37265840

 

[Two Professors]

***Shock horror***
Dale Stephens + inane 'what if' ramblings have sent this all the way down to page 3.
We can't have than now can we


Brexit protest: March for Europe rallies held across UK

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-uk-leaves-the-eu-37265840

Thanks for sharing that.Funniest pictures I've seen for weeks.Wonder if the Jock midget was shocked by the dismal EU support in Edinburgh

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

***Shock horror***
Dale Stephens + inane 'what if' ramblings have sent this all the way down to page 3.
We can't have than now can we [emoji38]


Brexit protest: March for Europe rallies held across UK

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-uk-leaves-the-eu-37265840

Perhaps those marchers should have done a little more persuading in the campaign. Don't they realise they are losers?

 

[JC Footy Genius]

***Shock horror***
Dale Stephens + inane 'what if' ramblings have sent this all the way down to page 3.
We can't have than now can we


Brexit protest: March for Europe rallies held across UK

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-uk-leaves-the-eu-37265840

The recent numerous positive economic indicators already showing a return to near normality after the vote have sent the project fear proponents scurrying for cover.

Reality was always going to prove them wrong and put the final nail in the coffin of the economists/experts prediction credibility. Lesson learned for the gullible who only think with their wallets ... hopefully.

I see the pink Frank Spencer impersonator almost lost his/her beret today . On the plus side a tremendous charity fundraiser on the other a palace supporting Europhile, still firmly in the negative on the balance sheet of life.

 

[Lincoln Imp]

The recent numerous positive economic indicators already showing a return to near normality after the vote have sent the project fear proponents scurrying for cover.

Reality was always going to prove them wrong and put the final nail in the coffin of the economists/experts prediction credibility. Lesson learned for the gullible who only think with their wallets ... hopefully.

I see the pink Frank Spencer impersonator almost lost his/her beret today . On the plus side a tremendous charity fundraiser on the other a palace supporting Europhile, still firmly in the negative on the balance sheet of life.

"Reality was always going to prove them wrong..." I am surprised that any rational person can be so certain what the economic outcome of Brexit will be before the country has even formally signalled its intention to leave. And just for the record, my single greatest reason for wishing that my country could remain a nation of the European Union has nothing whatsoever to do with my wallet. I do not expect you to understand this, or even to be vaguely interested.