[Politics] Brexit

[East Preston Gull]

I love a good conspiracy and I've been looking for claims of an MI5 False Flag all day. I wondered if it would be suggested on NSC

It would be all over Putin TV.

The missing " Britain First" witness.
His interview years ago in a local paper.
Picture of him with Britain First group in dewsbury, photoshopped.

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

So as important as a drunk uncle showing himself up at a family wedding after being accused of flirting with 'a woman'.

You'll never find any evidence you can trust, it'll all be guesswork and theory. So as important as any unprovable narative.

 

[pastafarian]

I really, really hope that the Vote Leave campaign now distance themselves from Farage and his ilk, and stops banging on so negatively about immigration.

Farage is not a part of the Vote Leave group.
If you had read anything you might have noticed they dont like it other very much.You probably have read this but choose to ignore it anyway,it doesnt fit in with your narrative does it.

More importantly who gave you the ####### right to say the conversation surrounding immigration should only be spoken about in a positive way. What sort of fascist ballocks is that?
There are plenty of negatives surrounding mass immigration that effect many people,why should they not have their voice because it simply makes you uncomfortable, do you simply bury your head in the sand and hope the issue will go away?

Its people like you that deliberately tried to suppress the debate on immigration for years that leads us to where we are today......give yourself a big pat on the back.

 

[pastafarian]

Good to see Switzerland have officially withdrawn their application for joining the EU.
wonder if their glaciers will melt as a consequence?

 

[pastafarian]

Yesterday, when campaigning had supposedly been suspended, I received through my door an 'official information about the referendum' leaflet. The only clue to its provenance is a small 'Vote leave' slogan, together with that red cuby thing that is the symbol of one of the main 'leave' groups.

This piece of 'official information' has a map on the back page labeled 'Countries set to join the EU'. In dark red are Albania and Turkey (and a few others). In ligher red are Syria and Iraq.

So there you have it, the 'official information' about the referendum is 'vote leave' because 'Syria and Iraq' are 'set to join the EU'.

Has anyone had anything more mendacious and disgusting put through their letter box from one of the main Brexit or Remain campains (things written in crayon don't count)?

can you take a photo of the leaflet before your bins get collected and post it.
would love to see which group have published this and are saying Syria and Iraq are set to join the EU

 

[BadFish]

FWIW here is my take on the Brexit debate from afar.

From what i can see the Brexit campaign is based on the assumption that those nasty eurocrats are some how stifling the work of the wondrous right leaning governments of the UK and preventing them from giving everyone a pet unicorn. As if without the interference of Europe they sitting Tory government would have the freedom to look after us all, keep out the nasty immigrants and spend taxpayers money on fixing potholes, reviving the NHS and other public services instead of tax breaks for the rich and pointless wars.

I am all in favour of cutting out as much bureaucracy as possible and large parts of the EU are wasteful and unnecessary, and if the vote was purely based on this i would be an outer in an instant. But (and it is a massive BUT) without the EU the UK will be left at the mercy of whichever government the people choose to vote in . More importantly lets not forget that we can be sure it will be right leaning (as this is what the UK public always vote for). it will not hold any of the values and ideals that would suddenly create a utopian state similar to Switzerland, which for some explicable reason is being held up as an alternative to the EU. It clearly isn't! your choice isn't an EU or Swiss model it is EU or giving the Tories a free run at everyone who isn't rich.

In short the government could fix your potholes if they wanted to but they don't. In....out ..... or shake it all about, it won't make any difference

 

[pastafarian]

FWIW here is my take on the Brexit debate from afar.

From what i can see the Brexit campaign is based on the assumption that those nasty eurocrats are some how stifling the work of the wondrous right leaning governments of the UK and preventing them from giving everyone a pet unicorn. As if without the interference of Europe they sitting Tory government would have the freedom to look after us all, keep out the nasty immigrants and spend taxpayers money on fixing potholes, reviving the NHS and other public services instead of tax breaks for the rich and pointless wars.

I am all in favour of cutting out as much bureaucracy as possible and large parts of the EU are wasteful and unnecessary, and if the vote was purely based on this i would be an outer in an instant. But (and it is a massive BUT) without the EU the UK will be left at the mercy of whichever government the people choose to vote in . More importantly lets not forget that we can be sure it will be right leaning (as this is what the UK public always vote for). it will not hold any of the values and ideals that would suddenly create a utopian state similar to Switzerland, which for some explicable reason is being held up as an alternative to the EU. It clearly isn't! your choice isn't an EU or Swiss model it is EU or giving the Tories a free run at everyone who isn't rich.

In short the government could fix your potholes if they wanted to but they don't. In....out ..... or shake it all about, it won't make any difference

"without the EU the UK will be left at the mercy of whichever government the people choose to vote in "

Yes,its called democracy,people choosing their government is a good thing not bad.

"More importantly lets not forget that we can be sure it will be right leaning (as this is what the UK public always vote for)"

Always vote in right leaning governments?
I see you have joined the ranks of lets get Blair In what a wonderful labour government.......ooh ooh here comes Corbyn......golly gosh Blair was a right leaning tory(what were we thinking)

whats next?.......oh look everyone a squirrel!

your take on the referendum so far is

Since you are now in the "your vote wont make any difference" camp can you please start a thread for people that dont give a toss......take one direction with you and leave the other 99.99% of people that think this vote is important and will make a difference in peace..

 

[BadFish]

"without the EU the UK will be left at the mercy of whichever government the people choose to vote in "

Yes,its called democracy,people choosing their government is a good thing not bad.

"More importantly lets not forget that we can be sure it will be right leaning (as this is what the UK public always vote for)"

Always vote in right leaning governments?
I see you have joined the ranks of lets get Blair In what a wonderful labour government.......ooh ooh here comes Corbyn......golly gosh Blair was a right leaning tory(what were we thinking)

whats next?.......oh look everyone a squirrel!

your take on the referendum so far is

Since you are now in the "your vote wont make any difference" camp can you please start a thread for people that dont give a toss......take one direction with you and leave the other 99.99% of people that think this vote is important and will make a difference in peace..

Your reply epitomises the debate so far, which I suppose is hardly surprising as you have taken such an active part in it.

I honestly don't think it will make a huge difference (not to the pothole situation, certainly). From what i can see no-one really knows what difference it will make and both sides are trying their best to disguise the fact by spreading misinformation and propaganda. Only time will tell on that score.

Not really sure what your point about Blair is but it is very clear you don't have access to my voting history. Still while near the end of a campaign based on assumption and misinformation one may as well press on eh?

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I am all in favour of cutting out as much bureaucracy as possible and large parts of the EU are wasteful and unnecessary, and if the vote was purely based on this i would be an outer in an instant. But (and it is a massive BUT) without the EU the UK will be left at the mercy of whichever government the people choose to vote in .

I find this kind of authoritarian, right wing view quite disappointing. I have heard it a few times in this debate.

 

[BadFish]

I find this kind of authoritarian, right wing view quite disappointing. I have heard it a few times in this debate.

Maybe I didn't express that point quite as clearly as i would have liked.

So you don't think that the checks offered by the EU are useful? This job is supposed to be performed by the house of Lords but i am not convinced they do a great deal. I think that it is imperative that governments are held accountable in some way.

Maybe I didn't express that point quite as clearly as i would have liked. I am not for a moment suggesting that people shouldn't me allowed to choose their government. More that if people keep voting for the same thing, then they will end up always having the same thing. Leaving the EU and sticking with the same type of government will still result in the same thing. To achieve the much lauded Swiss model the UK must not only leave the EU but also vote in a more progressive government that will offer said Swiss utopia.

Membership of the EU (or not depending on your stance) will only make so much difference. the EU only has a certain amount of influence on the lives of its citizens, much of it is still down to the governments of each country. I am just not convinced that leaving the EU is going to solve the problems people hope. I don't think that leaving is going to see a massive reduction in potholes in the UK as the leave campaign suggests.

 

[Jim in the West]

Farage is not a part of the Vote Leave group.
If you had read anything you might have noticed they dont like it other very much.You probably have read this but choose to ignore it anyway,it doesnt fit in with your narrative does it.

More importantly who gave you the ####### right to say the conversation surrounding immigration should only be spoken about in a positive way. What sort of fascist ballocks is that?
There are plenty of negatives surrounding mass immigration that effect many people,why should they not have their voice because it simply makes you uncomfortable, do you simply bury your head in the sand and hope the issue will go away?

Its people like you that deliberately tried to suppress the debate on immigration for years that leads us to where we are today......give yourself a big pat on the back.

By the way, I'm completely aware that Farage isn't part of the official campaign - however, it has (until last Thursday) been very helpful to Vote Leave to have Farage stoking up the anti-immigrant rhetoric. And I'm definitely NOT asking for the immigration debate to only be positive. It would just be nice to have some balance. And you are, right, a lot of what is being said about immigration does make me feel uncomfortable. For me, one of the core British values is that we are an open, compassionate nation. This value has been eroded quite dramatically over the course of the past few months. It's tragic that it takes the death of an MP to make us sit back and think more deeply about this.

Anyway, for the record I am sympathetic to the fears that some people have of mass immigration - but we should be dealing with those fears in a much more positive way. And certainly not by leaving the EU, as that is unlikely to make any material difference. In fact, it will make things MUCH worse for those who are most affected, by reducing growth, increasing unemployment, etc, etc. You know my views!!

 

[Steve in Japan]

Posted on another thread, but relevant here too.

The Sunday Times has today called for a tactical Leave vote to allow Cameron to renegotiate the terms of our membership with the EU, suggesting an emergency brake on immigration is reasonable.

On Thursday, therefore, we should vote “leave”. Yes, we must be prepared for difficulties, but we should hold our nerve. This vote may be the best opportunity we shall ever have to call a halt to the onward march of the centralising European project driven by the inherent flaws in the eurozone. That journey is in *neither our interest, nor ultimately Europe’s. In this ref*er*endum campaign we have been rethinking our identity: not as an isolated island nation, but as a global player in partnership with sovereign states on the Continent and beyond. By our example, Britain may even bring Europe to think again about its own destination. We would like our association with the EU to be a looser, more flexible one. This is not a rejection of friends but a plea for real reform. Given a chance, Europe’s peoples would agree.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Maybe I didn't express that point quite as clearly as i would have liked.

So you don't think that the checks offered by the EU are useful? This job is supposed to be performed by the house of Lords but i am not convinced they do a great deal. I think that it is imperative that governments are held accountable in some way.

Maybe I didn't express that point quite as clearly as i would have liked. I am not for a moment suggesting that people shouldn't me allowed to choose their government. More that if people keep voting for the same thing, then they will end up always having the same thing. Leaving the EU and sticking with the same type of government will still result in the same thing. To achieve the much lauded Swiss model the UK must not only leave the EU but also vote in a more progressive government that will offer said Swiss utopia.

Membership of the EU (or not depending on your stance) will only make so much difference. the EU only has a certain amount of influence on the lives of its citizens, much of it is still down to the governments of each country. I am just not convinced that leaving the EU is going to solve the problems people hope. I don't think that leaving is going to see a massive reduction in potholes in the UK as the leave campaign suggests.

I agree there needs to be an effective second chamber for scrutinising legislation and that the House of Lords needs to be replaced. However I think you are conflating two separate issues. The role of the EU has never been to scrutinise legislation. It has never claimed to do so. The closest to this is the European Court but do you really think that a court made up of judges who may have no affinity with the UK should be able to overturn democratically made local decisions ? One important check and balance this country has is that sometimes we elect Tory Governments and sometimes Labour. Just because the current Government is not to your or my taste this does not mean we should overridfe democracy. I would like the next Labour Government to re-nationalise the railways and I do not want European Law to prevent this from happening. I agree with your last point that the vote will not radically alter our lives either way which does rather shame the scare stories of both official campaigns.

 

[BadFish]

I agree there needs to be an effective second chamber for scrutinising legislation and that the House of Lords needs to be replaced. However I think you are conflating two separate issues. The role of the EU has never been to scrutinise legislation. It has never claimed to do so. The closest to this is the European Court but do you really think that a court made up of judges who may have no affinity with the UK should be able to overturn democratically made local decisions ? One important check and balance this country has is that sometimes we elect Tory Governments and sometimes Labour. Just because the current Government is not to your or my taste this does not mean we should overridfe democracy. I would like the next Labour Government to re-nationalise the railways and I do not want European Law to prevent this from happening. I agree with your last point that the vote will not radically alter our lives either way which does rather shame the scare stories of both official campaigns.

Fair point although i was never suggesting that the EU do or should scrutinise or block UK legislation but I think they offer protection across many policy areas without which national governments could enjoy a free reign. I am thinking environmental and workers rights policies to name but two.

My second point was not to suggest overturning democratically process merely and observation that in my lifetime I have not seen a left leaning government in power (with perhaps the exception of the first few years of New Labour, although this is contentious (they certainly wouldn't have and didn't re-nationalise anything)). The Brexiters offer up many examples of what could happen in a 'free' UK (the Swiss model being a good example), my point is that without a progressive government that will ring the changes to make those things happen. The UK electorate does not have a history of electing such governments and I do not see that changing in the near future.

Another example of this is the potholes posters doing the rounds. I would challenge any Brexiteer to give me a time frame in which UK governments will half the number of potholes in the UK (35 million I think they said there were). So should the shackles of European oppression be removed, how long exactly will it take for the government to reduce the number of potholes to (lets say) 20 million?

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Fair point although i was never suggesting that the EU do or should scrutinise or block UK legislation but I think they offer protection across many policy areas without which national governments could enjoy a free reign. I am thinking environmental and workers rights policies to name but two.

My second point was not to suggest overturning democratically process merely and observation that in my lifetime I have not seen a left leaning government in power (with perhaps the exception of the first few years of New Labour, although this is contentious (they certainly wouldn't have and didn't re-nationalise anything)). The Brexiters offer up many examples of what could happen in a 'free' UK (the Swiss model being a good example), my point is that without a progressive government that will ring the changes to make those things happen. The UK electorate does not have a history of electing such governments and I do not see that changing in the near future.

Another example of this is the potholes posters doing the rounds. I would challenge any Brexiteer to give me a time frame in which UK governments will half the number of potholes in the UK (35 million I think they said there were). So should the shackles of European oppression be removed, how long exactly will it take for the government to reduce the number of potholes to (lets say) 20 million?

I'm sorry I have missed the pothole debate completely. Pesky Europeans digging our roads up in the middle of the night when I'm tucked up in bed ? No surprises there

 

[Maldini]

False Flag achieves its goal.

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

Can I have that in English?

 

[BadFish]

I'm sorry I have missed the pothole debate completely. Pesky Europeans digging our roads up in the middle of the night when I'm tucked up in bed ? No surprises there

 

[Maldini]

There are those from Remain who are trying to capitalise on the murder of Jo Cox.Shameful.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...tion-poster-just-90-minutes-wife-s-death.html

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

can you take a photo of the leaflet before your bins get collected and post it.
would love to see which group have published this and are saying Syria and Iraq are set to join the EU

I have just fished it out of my recycling bin (luckily where I live it is just paper and class). I'll take a photo and upload it asap (which is likely to be in a couple of days as I have a lunch at 12 then a journey . . .).

 

[Green Cross Code Man]

There are those from Remain who are trying to capitalise on the murder of Jo Cox.Shameful.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...tion-poster-just-90-minutes-wife-s-death.html

I may have missed the point, but who in remain in that article is capitalising? All I picked up is that the husband is carrying on with a belief for the EU that both shared. Hardly capitalising, and although i disagree and want to leave, his attitude is laudable.