[Misc] F1 2021

[Papa Lazarou]

What a ****


Former Formula 1 team owner Eddie Jordan reacted to Sunday's dramatic finale by suggesting Hamilton had become "too nice", allowing Verstappen to "steal" the world title.

That's not really fair. Max has been ahead in the drivers championship for months, so any coming together that takes them both out clearly favoured Max, hence he could continually use his late braking manoeuvre at corners, safe in the knowledge that were they to crash, the worst he'd be is the same points ahead. Lewis never had that luxury, so always had to pull out to avoid a DNF.

If Lewis gets ahead next season we will definitely see a different approach from him in those situations.

 

[Creaky]

That's a tricky one - their case will be around the fact that Lewis was almost certain to win of the rules were applied correctly, but they COULD void the race, leaving Max as champion anyway!



It is almost certain that Hamilton would have won as Verstappen would have had to pass 4 other cars, who were fighting each other for position, even with the blue flags.



We do, Hamilton was leading and would have won.



Yep. Ruined it.

You can’t declare a race winner and a championship on an “almost certain”

We don’t know who would have won if the race had finished under the safety car - again it’s only “almost certain” that LH would have won but cars have crashed and/or broken down under safety car conditions.

I can’t see any appeal decision that can justifiably take the championship away from MV and give it to LH. At least not without triggering yet more appeals from Red Bull this time.

 

[Icy Gull]

That's not really fair. Max has been ahead in the drivers championship for months, so any coming together that takes them both out clearly favoured Max, hence he could continually use his late braking manoeuvre at corners, safe in the knowledge that were they to crash, the worst he'd be is the same points ahead. Lewis never had that luxury, so always had to pull out to avoid a DNF.

If Lewis gets ahead next season we will definitely see a different approach from him in those situations.

If you watch much F1 you know that Jordan ALWAYS tries to be controversial and throws in shit like this every race he has been a pundit on. Nasty piece of work imo.

Fortunately I watch races on Now Tv these days so I have no idea if he is still involved with the terrestial coverage but he wound me up every time I listened to him

 

[Papa Lazarou]

You can’t declare a race winner and a championship on an “almost certain”

We don’t know who would have won if the race had finished under the safety car - again it’s only “almost certain” that LH would have won but cars have crashed and/or broken down under safety car conditions.

I can’t see any appeal decision that can justifiably take the championship away from MV and give it to LH. At least not without triggering yet more appeals from Red Bull this time.

Yes, but Lewis WAS ahead. Therefore the 'possible win scenarios' are even weaker for Max IF they win the case and the safety car shenanigans are declared 'outside the rules'. I don't think they'll alter the result anyway - they can't afford to balls it up an more than they have.

Shame for everyone involved obviously.

 

[Icy Gull]

You can’t declare a race winner and a championship on an “almost certain”

We don’t know who would have won if the race had finished under the safety car - again it’s only “almost certain” that LH would have won but cars have crashed and/or broken down under safety car conditions.

I can’t see any appeal decision that can justifiably take the championship away from MV and give it to LH. At least not without triggering yet more appeals from Red Bull this time.

I reckon null and void race will be the eventual decision and probably the right one as they cannot reverse the decision imo. Max gets the Championship whatever happens. It would be good for the sport to “out” and sack Masi though. I’m shocked the FIA haven’t sacked him already. He was 100% the cause of that absolute shambles.

The FIA should also make communication one way next season, from race control to the teams. Any queries or challenges should be lodged after the race has finished.

 

[pb21]

I can’t see any appeal decision that can justifiably take the championship away from MV and give it to LH. At least not without triggering yet more appeals from Red Bull this time.

Ultimately this is the case, it would need a time machine to satisfactorily rectify the situation.

I think Mercedes will appreciate this and that its not in their longer term interest to pursue the appeal.

 

[Creaky]

Yes, but Lewis WAS ahead. Therefore the 'possible win scenarios' are even weaker for Max IF they win the case and the safety car shenanigans are declared 'outside the rules'. I don't think they'll alter the result anyway - they can't afford to balls it up an more than they have.

Shame for everyone involved obviously.

I agree - if only the race had been red flagged rather than put under the safety car - that way we’d have had a four lap shoot out with both drivers on level terms - now that would have been a proper finish.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

I reckon null and void race will be the eventual decision and probably the right one as they cannot reverse the decision imo. Max gets the Championship whatever happens. It would be good for the sport to “out” and sack Masi though. I’m shocked the FIA haven’t sacked him already. He was 100% the cause of that absolute shambles

I'd imagine the Mercedes lawyers are exploring that option already. This could rumble on for ages.

 

[Surf's Up]

It's a ****ing shambles and is no way for the best championship tussle ever to finish.

 

[Bold Seagull]

If you watch much F1 you know that Jordan ALWAYS tries to be controversial and throws in shit like this every race he has been a pundit on. Nasty piece of work imo.

Fortunately I watch races on Now Tv these days so I have no idea if he is still involved with the terrestial coverage but he wound me up every time I listened to him

Did you see all the context for what he said? He also added this:

"He's the best driver I've ever seen and I've seen some really top drivers in my time, so for me to say that I'm really putting him on a pedestal."

 

[Icy Gull]

Did you see all the context for what he said? He also added this:

"He's the best driver I've ever seen and I've seen some really top drivers in my time, so for me to say that I'm really putting him on a pedestal."

I didn’t and I wish he’d just left it at that

 

[Nitram]

Complete farce from my point of view. It’s been building over the season where the rules have been bent to encourage more racing but have allowed reckless driving. This season the sport element has taken second place to the entertainment factor.

Masi took it to another level with his decision to break safety car protocol to ensure that the last lap would see some action. Not a sporting decision in my book as Hamilton was a sitting duck, but one to please Liberty and create a show. Some will fine with that but it’s not a sporting event when you bend the rules to satisfy the sponsors.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Complete farce from my point of view. It’s been building over the season where the rules have been bent to encourage more racing but have allowed reckless driving. This season the sport element has taken second place to the entertainment factor.

Masi took it to another level with his decision to break safety car protocol to ensure that the last lap would see some action. Not a sporting decision in my book as Hamilton was a sitting duck, but one to please Liberty and create a show. Some will fine with that but it’s not a sporting event when you bend the rules to satisfy the sponsors.

What is strange is that he could have started the race without the cars unlapping. With the pace Max had and blue flags, and no driver wanting to impact the title, he may have cleared those cars within 2 or 3 corners still giving him a lion's share of a lap to catch Lewis. That would have seemed a fairer reflection of where the race was before the SC too, Lewis would have had a chance to get heat in his tyres and offer some defense that was basically taken from him.

In racing terms, why was Sainz not allowed to challenge for 2nd? Why give the guy in 2nd place everything, no one to challenge from behind, everything to gain in front. It was completely wrong on so many levels.

 

[Nitram]

What is strange is that he could have started the race without the cars unlapping. With the pace Max had and blue flags, and no driver wanting to impact the title, he may have cleared those cars within 2 or 3 corners still giving him a lion's share of a lap to catch Lewis. That would have seemed a fairer reflection of where the race was before the SC too, Lewis would have had a chance to get heat in his tyres and offer some defense that was basically taken from him.

In racing terms, why was Sainz not allowed to challenge for 2nd? Why give the guy in 2nd place everything, no one to challenge from behind, everything to gain in front. It was completely wrong on so many levels.

It’s a good point regarding Sainz, the only thing I can think of is they wanted a manufactured scenario seeing Max and Lewis, Sainz would have spoilt the script, as I said before nothing about sport but to create a manufactured grand finale.

 

[Bold Seagull]

It’s a good point regarding Sainz, the only thing I can think of is they wanted a manufactured scenario seeing Max and Lewis, Sainz would have spoilt the script, as I said before nothing about sport but to create a manufactured grand finale.

I think it's been missed that having no attack from behind changes the dynamic. Lewis could have covered inside, Sainz could have followed that tow, so that if Verstappen tried to go around the outside, Sainz could have been there on his inside following Lewis's slipstream. Unprecedented to let just a select few cars through, never happened before.

 

[Papa Lazarou]

I think it's been missed that having no attack from behind changes the dynamic. Lewis could have covered inside, Sainz could have followed that tow, so that if Verstappen tried to go around the outside, Sainz could have been there on his inside following Lewis's slipstream. Unprecedented to let just a select few cars through, never happened before.

It feels like the more we analyse it, the more ridiculous the whole situation becomes. Quite right, Sainz could have won the race, but i suppose that wouldn't have affected the title, well, not directly.

 

[WATFORD zero]

It was quite simple, if they were really desperate for a 'racing finish', red flag it as per the rules, let them both change tyres and have a 4 lap sprint finish.

If they were still really desperate for a 'racing' finish but were too late/incompetent/stupid to do that, then bring the safety car in as per the rules, and let them race from the positions they were in, on track, for the last lap.

Instead, by breaking their own rules, making up new ones on the fly and only letting the cars between Hamilton and Verstappen unlap, they didn't get a racing finish, all they did was award a walkover

 

[vegster]

It was quite simple, if they were really desperate for a 'racing finish', red flag it as per the rules, let them both change tyres and have a 4 lap sprint finish.

If they were still really desperate for a 'racing' finish but were too late/incompetent/stupid to do that, then bring the safety car in as per the rules, and let them race from the positions they were in, on track, for the last lap.

Instead, by breaking their own rules, making up new ones on the fly and only letting the cars between Hamilton and Verstappen unlap, they didn't get a racing finish, all they did was award a walkover

It seems incredibly unfair that LH got ahead and stayed ahead for 98% of the race by using his skill while Verstappen was allowed opportunities to replace his tyres and allowed to catch up under the Safety Car. Absolute travesty.

 

[Seasider78]

Times reporting that Toto has contacted MV and congratulated him and Mercedes may be set to abort the appeal

https://apple.news/ArUBYuW-vSGWYvHDcqsC0ug

 

[Creaky]

It seems incredibly unfair that LH got ahead and stayed ahead for 98% of the race by using his skill while Verstappen was allowed opportunities to replace his tyres and allowed to catch up under the Safety Car. Absolute travesty.

Non of that is unusual and is part of the strategy part of F1 - LH has taken advantage of safety car pit stops on numerous occasions as well as closing up on his rivals.

What was unusual was allowing only selected cars to overtake the safety and not all or none.