[Misc] F1 2021

[Originunknown]

Like many I hadn't regularly watched F1 since the 80s, 90s and early 00s. I thought it was largely a procession around a soulless circuit with no history or redeeming features.

That was until the dramatic conclusion where clearly Red Bull played their hand well in fortuitous circumstances. Had Mercedes planned for a late SC intervention and got Hamilton on some decent tyres when they had the chance, as they debated on the radio, then perhaps he could have outraced MV on the final lap. Alas, he could not.

 

[Guinness Boy]

The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that Masi was thinking of the "Drive to Survive" cameras and not the integrity of the sport.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Is that allowed?

Well, each finishing car is supposed to be able to give a min cupful of fuel at the end for testing. Vettel lost his 2nd place in Hungary because his car didn't have enough fuel left to give a sample.

I have no idea how the rules apply to a retired car though, and whether a team could intentionally fuel a car not to finish. It's a bit of a spurious conspiracy because there can't be a lot in it with 3 laps to go in terms of fuel advantage, if they did underfuel it can't have been by much.

 

[stss30]

The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that Masi was thinking of the "Drive to Survive" cameras and not the integrity of the sport.

He was, there's absolutely no doubt. I bet the F1 bosses were fuming when Lewis was virtually on a procession, so after the crash they wanted to add some drama for the casual viewers. In any other race of the calendar they would have finished behind the safety car and/or stuck with the ruling about lapped cars (which would have resulted in the same outcome), but because this was their big moment they chucked out the normal rule book for the cameras. How was it fair that Sainz in 3rd wasn't allowed to battle with the front two? Just makes a mockery of the competition. I've enjoyed the season but don't think I'll continue watching after that shitshow.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Like many I hadn't regularly watched F1 since the 80s, 90s and early 00s. I thought it was largely a procession around a soulless circuit with no history or redeeming features.

That was until the dramatic conclusion where clearly Red Bull played their hand well in fortuitous circumstances. Had Mercedes planned for a late SC intervention and got Hamilton on some decent tyres when they had the chance, as they debated on the radio, then perhaps he could have outraced MV on the final lap. Alas, he could not.

I don't know where all this 'Red Bull played their hand well' comes from. They made a huge gamble, their tyres weren't that old in the first place and had he stayed out behind the SC and not pitted for an even fresher set - there wouldn't be this controversy of unlapped cars, because Max would have been legitimately right behind him. What no one is mentioning is that Red Bull nearly cocked this up completely, because if Masi had followed the regulations to the letter, by pitting Max for another set, they should have cost him his chance to compete on the last lap with lapped cars in the way. As it was, Masi completely masked a huge gamble they took and it looks like they played their hand well. I'd say they got away with a huge error on their part.

 

[Simster]

I haven't been interested in F1 for 30 years but thought the traffic would have something to offer for once so I tuned in. Never again. What an absolute joke, just a pure travesty.

There isn't a single sporting event the world over that lacks integrity to this extent. Just utter nonsense. I am done with F1, it has eaten itself.

 

[Driver8]

I don't know where all this 'Red Bull played their hand well' comes from. They made a huge gamble, their tyres weren't that old in the first place and had he stayed out behind the SC and not pitted for an even fresher set - there wouldn't be this controversy of unlapped cars, because Max would have been legitimately right behind him. What no one is mentioning is that Red Bull nearly cocked this up completely, because if Masi had followed the regulations to the letter, by pitting Max for another set, they should have cost him his chance to compete on the last lap with lapped cars in the way. As it was, Masi completely masked a huge gamble they took and it looks like they played their hand well. I'd say they got away with a huge error on their part.

Didn’t Verstappen have the four cars between him and Hamilton before the crash? Why would he have been right behind him?

 

[Swansman]

Have to apologise to F1 fans for previously saying that having the best car is the way to win, making it all a bit dull. In reality it appears that the win condition is obviously... ehm... hmm... luck? bureacracy? poor paperwork?

I'll definitely start to tune in next season!

 

[Bozza]

I don't know where all this 'Red Bull played their hand well' comes from. They made a huge gamble, their tyres weren't that old in the first place and had he stayed out behind the SC and not pitted for an even fresher set - there wouldn't be this controversy of unlapped cars, because Max would have been legitimately right behind him. What no one is mentioning is that Red Bull nearly cocked this up completely, because if Masi had followed the regulations to the letter, by pitting Max for another set, they should have cost him his chance to compete on the last lap with lapped cars in the way. As it was, Masi completely masked a huge gamble they took and it looks like they played their hand well. I'd say they got away with a huge error on their part.

Maybe, maybe not.

Lapped cars are often cleared to unlap themselves quite early on under the safety car, as explained post-race by the likes of Alonso and Vettel. Had Masi cleared ALL the lapped cars to unlap themselves earlier, as generally happens, Red Bull's strategy was spot-on. It was still a gamble of course, but given where they were, they had to roll the dice, surely?

"When the safety car was out I thought we were able to overtake quickly, because normally it is what happens," said Alonso.

Vettel said he got the message late: "Very late, but I think too late, they should let us pass straight away like other times."​

 

[Bozza]

Didn’t Verstappen have the four cars between him and Hamilton before the crash? Why would he have been right behind him?

No, he was directly behind Hamilton, although something like 12 seconds distant.

It was Verstappen's pit stop under the safety car which brought him back out behind the lapped cars.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Didn’t Verstappen have the four cars between him and Hamilton before the crash? Why would he have been right behind him?

He was second when the SC came out, they were then in front of him because none of them pitted under the SC, hence he was then behind a load of cars he’d actually lapped in the race when he exited the pits. They’d have been blue flagged of course, but getting through them would have cost him a chance.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

I don't know where all this 'Red Bull played their hand well' comes from. They made a huge gamble, their tyres weren't that old in the first place and had he stayed out behind the SC and not pitted for an even fresher set - there wouldn't be this controversy of unlapped cars, because Max would have been legitimately right behind him. What no one is mentioning is that Red Bull nearly cocked this up completely, because if Masi had followed the regulations to the letter, by pitting Max for another set, they should have cost him his chance to compete on the last lap with lapped cars in the way. As it was, Masi completely masked a huge gamble they took and it looks like they played their hand well. I'd say they got away with a huge error on their part.

RB's hand played itself to all intents and purposes. Lewis goes in the pits, Max stays out, Lewis stays out, Max goes in. It was hardly Nelson at the Battle of Trafalgar stuff.

I might be wrong but I didn't think Max had cleared the back markers before the safety car came out.

 

[Originunknown]

I don't know where all this 'Red Bull played their hand well' comes from. They made a huge gamble, their tyres weren't that old in the first place and had he stayed out behind the SC and not pitted for an even fresher set - there wouldn't be this controversy of unlapped cars, because Max would have been legitimately right behind him. What no one is mentioning is that Red Bull nearly cocked this up completely, because if Masi had followed the regulations to the letter, by pitting Max for another set, they should have cost him his chance to compete on the last lap with lapped cars in the way. As it was, Masi completely masked a huge gamble they took and it looks like they played their hand well. I'd say they got away with a huge error on their part.

I'm certainly not au fait with the current rules around the SC but expected all back markers to un-lap themselves, not just a few of them.

Alternatively lining up on the grid again in race order then a restart could have been fair and even more entertaining but the result probably would have been the same.

The SC as a necessary safety mechanism has always been a chance for teams to capitalise or game the restart. I'm sure this Hamilton chap has benefited in similar circumstances over the years too.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Maybe, maybe not.

Lapped cars are often cleared to unlap themselves quite early on under the safety car, as explained post-race by the likes of Alonso and Vettel. Had Masi cleared ALL the lapped cars to unlap themselves earlier, as generally happens, Red Bull's strategy was spot-on. It was still a gamble of course, but given where they were, they had to roll the dice, surely?

"When the safety car was out I thought we were able to overtake quickly, because normally it is what happens," said Alonso.

Vettel said he got the message late: "Very late, but I think too late, they should let us pass straight away like other times."​

That is dependent on a clear track, they were still clearing Latifi’s debris so couldn’t allow cars to unlap themselves while that is going on, that’s why normally a SC stays out another lap on a clear track to allow the unlapping - it can’t happen until the track is clear. The issue here was that wouldn’t give the race enough time to finish - hence the controversy.

 

[Icy Gull]

No, he was directly behind Hamilton, although something like 12 seconds distant.

It was Verstappen's pit stop under the safety car which brought him back out behind the lapped cars.

No it wasn’t. Hamilton had lost time to Verstappen overtaking the cars in question, which is why they were considered lapped. Max had closed up and still had to overtake them when Latiffii crashed. He was NOT directly behind Lewis at the time

Unless my memory is fecked from all the late drama, a quick check seems to suggest Max had in fact got passed them, I must have missed that completely in my excitement

 

[Hugo Rune]

Maybe, maybe not.

Lapped cars are often cleared to unlap themselves quite early on under the safety car, as explained post-race by the likes of Alonso and Vettel. Had Masi cleared ALL the lapped cars to unlap themselves earlier, as generally happens, Red Bull's strategy was spot-on. It was still a gamble of course, but given where they were, they had to roll the dice, surely?

"When the safety car was out I thought we were able to overtake quickly, because normally it is what happens," said Alonso.

Vettel said he got the message late: "Very late, but I think too late, they should let us pass straight away like other times."​

In defence of Masi, if the accident is off the track (see Verstappen at Silverstone this season), there is no safety issue with letting cars unlap themselves and speed round the track to join at the back from almost the beginning of the SC period.

However, the Williams was on track with bits of it scattered everywhere. Masi was correct to hold ALL cars behind the SC; there was a safety issue. Once the accident was cleared, Karen got on the buzzer asking for the cars between Max & Lewis to be moved. Masi happily obliged.

 

[Bozza]

That is dependent on a clear track, they were still clearing Latifi’s debris so couldn’t allow cars to unlap themselves while that is going on, that’s why normally a SC stays out another lap on a clear track to allow the unlapping - it can’t happen until the track is clear. The issue here was that wouldn’t give the race enough time to finish - hence the controversy.

What do Alonso and Vettal know about F1, eh? Bloody rookies.

 

[Bold Seagull]

RB's hand played itself to all intents and purposes. Lewis goes in the pits, Max stays out, Lewis stays out, Max goes in. It was hardly Nelson at the Battle of Trafalgar stuff.

I might be wrong but I didn't think Max had cleared the back markers before the safety car came out.

Okay I thought he had, I thought the gap went down to about 8 secs while LH cleared them, then MV hit them and it went back out to 13 secs, then before the SC hit it was back down to sub 11 secs because he'd got through them, but actually I don't know for certain.

My point is that by pitting him if Lewis stayed out it wasn't simple as you make out because the regulations may have, and should have meant unlapped cars didn't have enough time to unlap themselves and that should have cost Max the chance of a final lap go at Lewis. Had they stayed out, even 1 or 2 cars in the way still, he could have got through them in 1 go and had a chance on the final lap. That is why that pit call wasn't a no brainer, in fact it should have cost them if Masi hadn't come up with his own new rule of allowing just 4 cars to unlap themselves.

 

[B-right-on]

That is dependent on a clear track, they were still clearing Latifi’s debris so couldn’t allow cars to unlap themselves while that is going on, that’s why normally a SC stays out another lap on a clear track to allow the unlapping - it can’t happen until the track is clear. The issue here was that wouldn’t give the race enough time to finish - hence the controversy.

Exactly and from my limited knowledge (rules change ever few mins it seems) , the SC should stay out until the track was clear, which would have been after the race had finished. And again no controversy.

Effectively handing over the WC to RB. Verstappen on new tyres over taking Hamilton was a given

The FIA really fecked this one up.

 

[Bold Seagull]

What do Alonso and Vettal know about F1, eh? Bloody rookies.

Or the race director, or world champion Damon Hill, or Martin Brundle or anyone else!