[Cricket] Yorkshire cricket.end off

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I'm going to show my utter ignorance here, or perhaps naivety here. I always referred to the corner shop as the 'P... shop'. I would also refer to the take away as the 'Chinky'

It was only about 15 years ago that I was corrected.

That may come as a surprise, but when someone has never used such terms with malice or antipathy and has never been corrected then there should be reasoning.

I remember being told that 'Chinky' was offensive. I was quite taken aback, even offended, to think that I could be construed as having a racist attitude. For me it was an affectionate term. I really liked the family that ran the store. So there you go, context and intent. Obviously, I didn't use it after that, but was quite stunned by the whole thing.

So, from my own experience, this is why I try to cut through the whole thing. But in the event of confusion here is my summary:

1) Racism is unacceptable, as is prejudice.
2) Words have different contexts in different situations and amongst different people. What two people say in private consensual conversation is no-one else's business.
3) People should be educated in proper address and sensitivity. But what happened at a time when things were culturally different should remain in that time. If it was acceptable then it is still acceptable in its original context, just not in a modern one.
4) My biggest frustration is the hypocrisy of all this. Rather than addressing the situation, some folk have loaded agendas. And the absolutist view of things is riding over reason. Some folk may have done wrong, but they didn't mean to. I know that last sentence may be contentious but I am not withdrawing it.
5) [MENTION=17322]Lenny Rider[/MENTION] did make some valid points. I don't agree with him on a lot of stuff, but he is highlighting another angle. It's just a shame PPF 'liked' the entry, but I'm sure Lenny will get over it. PPF liked a post of mine once and I washed my hands afterwards.
6) Changing words doesn't change attitudes. The Daily Mail uses the right words. As a youngster I had a racist attitude, it was injected into me. The same goes for most of us. You can get all your words right but that doesn't change you. Up until relatively recently I was using the wrong words, but I sorted a lot of my attitudes out. Can others who always use the correct terms say that ? People need to look inside rather than out. But a lot of folk don't want to do that, because it's painful.

The 'paki' shop was commonplace when I was a kid in the 60s and 70s. I'm certain I used the term in my 20s (in the 70s). And an ex of mine, from up North, used the expression 20 years ago. In neither case was anything meant, but I would imagine that had it been heard by the subjects referred it would have hurt. Changing words is not there to change attitudes, it is simply to stop being offensive to people. That's good enought for me.

And Das Reich would disagree because he wants to be offensive.

Oh, and ps - an honest post. All the best

 

[Weststander]

The 'paki' shop was commonplace when I was a kid in the 60s and 70s. I'm certain I used the term in my 20s (in the 70s). And an ex of mine, from up North, used the expression 20 years ago. In neither case was anything meant, but I would imagine that had it been heard by the subjects referred it would have hurt. Changing words is not there to change attitudes, it is simply to stop being offensive to people. That's good enought for me.

And Das Reich would disagree because he wants to be offensive.

You’re back quick from the Amex! What did you think of the game?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

You’re back quick from the Amex! What did you think of the game?

Diabolical. Potter OUT!!!!

Seriously, disappointing but not surprising. I missed the panto at curtain call, having left on 85 minutes. I didn't like Dunk playing left back, wide, and I think we needed a ball playing defender like Webster on rather than Duffer, against shitehouse rubbish like Newcastle.

I really enjoyed the massive flag in the North stand, taking the lead from the Palace Ultras, bleating about....oh, hang on...

Onwards and downwards.

 

[Change at Barnham]

Racism in Cricket Committee now on BBC Parliament - Sky channel 504.

Some not very nice stuff coming out.

 

[Rodney Thomas]

It is very powerful hearing from Rafiq himself. He speaks very well, is making very clear points and clearly working his way through some emotional trauma (especially painful hearing about the racism he suffered in the context of what he and his wife went through while losing their first child).

Key points for me from Rafiq:

- This is about institutions and not really individuals (although some are clearly being outed as leaders of that institutional racism)
- There is culture that bleeds down (or up?) to grass roots cricket
- The ECB like to look good but do very little exept at elite level
- The questioning of Rafiq's personal life / drinking / partying etc is clear gaslighting (and Rafiq has handled this issue so well)

 

[Bold Seagull]

It is very powerful hearing from Rafiq himself. He speaks very well, is making very clear points and clearly working his way through some emotional trauma (especially painful hearing about the racism he suffered in the context of what he and his wife went through while losing their first child).

Key points for me from Rafiq:

- This is about institutions and not really individuals (although some are clearly being outed as leaders of that institutional racism)
- There is culture that bleeds down (or up?) to grass routes cricket
- The ECB like to look good but do very little exept at elite level
- The questioning of Rafiq's personal life / drinking / partying etc is clear gaslighting (and Rafiq has handled this issue so well)

Did he not say grass roots club cricket doesn't seem to suffer from it as much because clubs belong to their communities, I thought he said it was the step up to academies where it starts...

 

[Rodney Thomas]

Did he not say grass roots club cricket doesn't seem to suffer from it as much because clubs belong to their communities, I thought he said it was the step up to academies where it starts...

Maybe I missed that bit. But he also mentioned being pinned down and forced to drink alcohol (at the age of 15) at his local club.

 

[Reddleman]

I totally agree with those saying that over time words and their meaning have changed and I have no doubt in the past I have used words that were not appropriate and I would never use them now.

However Michael Vaughan’s comments of ‘there’s too many of you lot and we need to do something about it’ is not a lack of education or words changing over the years. It’s also not banter. He’s finished now and rightly so. Imagine a captain saying that to some of his team mates.

 

[Publius Ovidius]

He has just trashed Joe root! Be interesting how the ECB react to that and if he is recalled from Australia

 

[Rodney Thomas]

He has just trashed Joe root! Be interesting how the ECB react to that and if he is recalled from Australia

Rafiq on Joe Root:

"Joe Root is a good man, never engaged in racist language. But he was Ballance's housemate and was involved in a lot of nights out where I was called Paki. He might not remember it, maybe it shows how normalised it was that a good man like him didn't see it for what it is"

 

[Bold Seagull]

He has just trashed Joe root! Be interesting how the ECB react to that and if he is recalled from Australia

I thought he handled that incredibly well, and far from trashing Root, I think he used Root as a 'good guy' and 'never said a racist thing at all', but said that it showed how normal it was that a good guy like Root wasn't aware it was happening. That's how it sounded to me at least, he's used Root's statement as not Root turning a blind eye, but that the normality meant good guys like Root didn't see it as unusual.

 

[knocky1]

He has just trashed Joe root! Be interesting how the ECB react to that and if he is recalled from Australia

Not really trashed.
"Rooty is a good man. He has never engaged in racist language. I found it hurtful because Rooty was Gary Ballance's housemate". Rafiq says Root was on nights out when racist language directed at his Pakistan heritage was used.

"Maybe he didn't remember it, but it just shows the institution that a good man like him can not remember those things."

 

[Change at Barnham]

He has just trashed Joe root! Be interesting how the ECB react to that and if he is recalled from Australia

He said Joe Root was a good man and not a racist.
What he said was that Root was also on some of the nights out when he was abused by others.

Rafiq is being very clear that he doesn't what it to be about individuals, he's been saying the problem is institutional and the ECB is one of the biggest culprits.

 

[Rodney Thomas]

I thought he handled that incredibly well, and far from trashing Root, I think he used Root as a 'good guy' and 'never said a racist thing at all', but said that it showed how normal it was that a good guy like Root wasn't aware it was happening. That's how it sounded to me at least, he's used Root's statement as not Root turning a blind eye, but that the normality meant good guys like Root didn't see it as unusual.

Agreed

 

[Bold Seagull]

What will be interesting is what Joe Root does from here. Barney Roney made a very good point in a piece that said Root is basically untouchable as England Captain, he won't lose the captaincy for speaking out, he won't need to resign or lose a place on a board, or committee. He said his statement felt like it was written by a PR committee with a task of damage limitation. He wanted Root to speak from his heart, not with the politics he might think he holds as captain. If he hears this today, I wonder if it will change Root's take on this. He's his own man, not an ECB spokesperson.

 

[Publius Ovidius]

He said Joe Root was a good man and not a racist.
What he said was that Root was also on some of the nights out when he was abused by others.

Rafiq is being very clear that he doesn't what it to be about individuals, he's been saying the problem is institutional and the ECB is one of the biggest culprits.

But it is all about individuals. Yes the institutional racism is emphasised, but referring to root, ballance, that idiot Vaughan, has made it about individuals.

The coverup attempt by YCC is horrendous here, but to specifically mention Root’s name, you can see that the press will be after Root now …..especially the Aussie press led by Murdoch’s cronies.

This is a very damming testimony about YCC and I think the ECB will be hauled over the coals for this!

 

[Da Man Clay]

He has just trashed Joe root! Be interesting how the ECB react to that and if he is recalled from Australia

He didn’t trash him though, did he? Given the general avoidance of the issue I doubt even if he had trashed him it would make much of a difference.

 

[Bold Seagull]

But it is all about individuals. Yes the institutional racism is emphasised, but referring to root, ballance, that idiot Vaughan, has made it about individuals.

The coverup attempt by YCC is horrendous here, but to specifically mention Root’s name, you can see that the press will be after Root now …..especially the Aussie press led by Murdoch’s cronies.

This is a very damming testimony about YCC and I think the ECB will be hauled over the coals for this!

Rafiq didn't mention Root, he was asked a question "what did you think of Joe Root's statement". He answered that Root is a good guy and never engaged in any racist language.

Whether he likes it or not, Root is England captain, was Yorkshire captain and still a Yorkshire player. As far as I could tell, Rafiq was basically saying Root is a good guy and a good man. He's protected Root if anything because it's not him bringing him into it.

 

[Rodney Thomas]

But it is all about individuals. Yes the institutional racism is emphasised, but referring to root, ballance, that idiot Vaughan, has made it about individuals.

The coverup attempt by YCC is horrendous here, but to specifically mention Root’s name, you can see that the press will be after Root now …..especially the Aussie press led by Murdoch’s cronies.

This is a very damming testimony about YCC and I think the ECB will be hauled over the coals for this!

Are you actually watching live? That really isn't how it went down.

 

[Publius Ovidius]

He didn’t trash him though, did he? Given the general avoidance of the issue I doubt even if he had trashed him it would make much of a difference.

But by implication he did. To come out in the press saying that there was no way root didn’t hear this and revealing that he was ballance’s room mate, he has cast doubt on Root’s version of events of not hearing any racist stuff going on, which is in contrast to what is being said here.

I wonder how you go from being very best mates, and the way best mates treat each other, to this. Maybe when others heard them talking to eachother the way they obviously did, they assumed it was normal…at that point Ballance should have spoken in in defence of him and said what is ok between the two of them, is not ok for everyone else.

Still YCC and ECB are coming out of this so badly. Heads will roll at the ECB