Yet another piece of UKIP brilliance

[Herr Tubthumper]

My company would disintegrate in UK if UKIP came in to power, more interestingly our HR is now outsourced to India who apparently do not comply to the Data Protection Act so I am expecting a lot of Nigerean friends very soon with some tempting offers.

How does that work? If i was UK based and sent your UK office some information which was subsequently contravened by your Nigerian HR surely you're culpable?

The client I work with has a "highest law" rule which basically means the business process adhere to the most stringent of laws in the areas they work and this applies to outsourcing as well. Means I have to keep well up to speed with ever changing legislation.

 

[Beach Hut]

How does that work? If i was UK based and sent your UK office some information which was subsequently contravened by your Nigerian HR surely you're culpable?

The client I work with has a "highest law" rule which basically means the business process adhere to the most stringent of laws in the areas they work and this applies to outsourcing as well. Means I have to keep well up to speed with ever changing legislation.

Not really sure however as with large companies we had no choice and the letter arrived after it had actually happened, bit of a leap of faith but not much choice.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The fact we need a minimum wage at all is indicative of a catastrophic failure to manage our labour market, the capitalists have won.

These arguments about how much it should be and punishing the companies that employ cheap labour miss the point by a country mile.

The first time this country imposed restrictions on pay was just after the plague, when the working population was reduced by 30-40%. Never were the workers more powerful and able to name their price, moving from landowner to landowner who were desperate for workers to collect harvests etc.

How did the establishment react to this new development in worker power?

They imposed a MAXIMUM wage fixed at pre plague levels and restricted free movement, under the Statute of Labourers act.

So, what does this lesson teach us.............if you want to improve workers rights, control your labour market.

Anyone who argues otherwise is a Tory.

The world has moved on since the plaque. Just like there are many ways other than interest rates to cool a housing market (although it took a Canadian to recently tell us this) there are plenty of ways to control labour markets. We have just touched on two. At this moment in time, all things considers, I feel raising the minimum wage is best.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

at an EU level the cost of labour is more complex than minimum wages, especially as they can differ. its not just low skilled coming here to take the low end manual roles, there's the skilled roles that are moving out of the UK to where skills are cheaper. companies outsource office work to say Spain or Poland where the (non-minimum) wage costs are a fraction of what they are here. my compny is recruiting lots of programmers and data analysts, with virtually none of the positions coming to UK offices (only really senior management gets recruited here now).

The UK is a rip-off though. It's no wonder business are looking elsewhere for labour.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Oh. And it works both ways as me and the Frau have been able to utilize freedom of movement to our benefit. Instead of constantly moaning why not see how it can work for you. I'm sure I speak for many as well.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

My company would disintegrate in UK if UKIP came in to power, more interestingly our HR is now outsourced to India who apparently do not comply to the Data Protection Act so I am expecting a lot of Nigerean friends very soon with some tempting offers.

I reckon my industry would down size and shift to the EU if the UK left. Shame as it's a world leader in some areas and worth around 60b to the UK.

 

[beorhthelm]

How does that work? If i was UK based and sent your UK office some information which was subsequently contravened by your Nigerian HR surely you're culpable?

The client I work with has a "highest law" rule which basically means the business process adhere to the most stringent of laws in the areas they work and this applies to outsourcing as well. Means I have to keep well up to speed with ever changing legislation.

well thats your client's rule... not a legal requirement. others will do the minimum required. however, under DPA the company remains the custodian of the data and therefore responsible. they are likly to impose UK like levels of oversight and administrative control in the Indian office, and if theres one thing Indian do is follow process. i wouldnt worry about the data going to or accessed from India. other countries, including in the EU, i would be more concerned about.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

others will do the minimum required

This is what generally makes me think legislation is a good thing. If we left it to businesses I dread to think what would happen...probably nothing. And it's this "minimum required" attitude which makes business bleat about beurocracy ie they have to do something as opposed to nothing.

 

[beorhthelm]

This is what generally makes me think legislation is a good thing. If we left it to businesses I dread to think what would happen...probably nothing. And it's this "minimum required" attitude which makes business bleat about beurocracy ie they have to do something as opposed to nothing.

yet you gave an example of someone who raises their game. its odd to assume that companies will always race to the bottom when so many dont. usually quality and ethics create better more productive and profitable business. the problem with bureacracy is that it imposes costs to ensure compliance with something, which is not necessarily fulfilling the objectives anyway. data privacy for example, companies have far more interest in keeping data secure for their own advantage as they consider it a valuable asset, than legislators tell them to. think about it: Google isnt handing out information on you to everyone, they are selling a reference to an identifier in their system, but all the actual data stays with them. the last thing they want is the source data public as it loses any value.

 

[cunning fergus]

The world has moved on since the plaque. Just like there are many ways other than interest rates to cool a housing market (although it took a Canadian to recently tell us this) there are plenty of ways to control labour markets. We have just touched on two. At this moment in time, all things considers, I feel raising the minimum wage is best.

I disagree, the powerful imposed legislation to restrict British workers rights in 1360, and the powerful continue to do so with legislation 700 years later by creating the minimum wage.

I do however agree with Tony Benn and Bob Crow, who understood that in order to protect British workers interests you needed restrictions on the UK labour market.

Your view is to have unrestricted labour markets, so beloved of the Tories...........the minimum wage is merely a gaudy bauble to distract the weak minded into thinking that they are getting a fair deal.

We have been on this ground before and I know the plight of the British working class is not an issue you have any concerns about, so best leave it here.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

yet you gave an example of someone who raises their game. its odd to assume that companies will always race to the bottom when so many dont. usually quality and ethics create better more productive and profitable business. the problem with bureacracy is that it imposes costs to ensure compliance with something, which is not necessarily fulfilling the objectives anyway. data privacy for example, companies have far more interest in keeping data secure for their own advantage as they consider it a valuable asset, than legislators tell them to. think about it: Google isnt handing out information on you to everyone, they are selling a reference to an identifier in their system, but all the actual data stays with them. the last thing they want is the source data public as it loses any value.

I have no doubt businesses see data as a valuable asset.....for their benefit and purposes. But what if they decide to use it in a manner not benefiting the public? Quite a few of you on this thread just see the industry side of the argument. We the public need to be looked after as well.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I know the plight of the British working class is not an issue you have any concerns about, so best leave it here.

I support the working class in general, which includes the British.

 

[Eeyore]

According to a Nat West report in 2012, it was believed there were 4.6 million British people living and working abroad. According to the Daily Mail the number of foreign workers in Britain totals 2.4 million.

So we all benefit from migration. We live in a transient world. It's life now.

 

[cunning fergus]

Data protection is a relatively recent idea and therefore legislation will be new. It needs to be consistent across countries so it needs to be a EU directive. And it has to be in place; no doubt about it. And you seem to only be thinking of how this affects the economy. Data protection is in place to protect both business and individuals and in the case of the Cancer Research case you highlight very vulnerable people. It's new, and needs to be in place and is here to stay whether you agree with it or not. I'm very much aware of this ruling, in fact I took some training in it recently.

Can't be arsed to answer all your posts but will on this one........

1981 in the EU and 1984 in UK, other acts updating these since.

I said previously the motives were laudable, that does not however mean the legislation is good, some laws imposed by Govts can be shit because they are poorly planned, do you remember for example the 10p tax rate fiasco?

This is an EU regulation not a Directive, therefore the law goes straight onto the UK statute book without any vote in parliament by the UK's elected representatives. That how EU democracy works..........good eh?

Glad to hear you have had training, all firms will need to spend money doing that now, so more costs eh, thankfully businesses in Europe are doing really well at the moment so these additional costs won't have much effect on their profitability.

Well done EU.

 

[Beach Hut]

thankfully businesses in Europe are doing really well at the moment

Yes they are like Greece, France and Spain for instance ?

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Can't be arsed to answer all your posts but will on this one........

1981 in the EU and 1984 in UK, other acts updating these since.

I said previously the motives were laudable, that does not however mean the legislation is good, some laws imposed by Govts can be shit because they are poorly planned, do you remember for example the 10p tax rate fiasco?

This is an EU regulation not a Directive, therefore the law goes straight onto the UK statute book without any vote in parliament by the UK's elected representatives. That how EU democracy works..........good eh?

Glad to hear you have had training, all firms will need to spend money doing that now, so more costs eh, thankfully businesses in Europe are doing really well at the moment so these additional costs won't have much effect on their profitability.

Well done EU.

Whether you like it or not we need data protection. That given, you seem to miss the point that it is much more efficient and therefore less costly for businesses to deal with one single EU law than the minefield of numerous different rules scattered across the continent. It's simple common sense to have a single law with data in the modern world of communications. As you say, well done EU.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Glad to hear you have had training, all firms will need to spend money doing that now, so more costs eh

In the same way plumbers, sparks, doctor, airline pilots all need training in their fields , and need to keep current, I do as well.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

According to a Nat West report in 2012, it was believed there were 4.6 million British people living and working abroad. According to the Daily Mail the number of foreign workers in Britain totals 2.4 million.

So we all benefit from migration. We live in a transient world. It's life now.

This puts it in perspective. Thanks. My message to all the whingers is "what you all moaning about?"

 

[BadFish]

at an EU level the cost of labour is more complex than minimum wages, especially as they can differ. its not just low skilled coming here to take the low end manual roles, there's the skilled roles that are moving out of the UK to where skills are cheaper. companies outsource office work to say Spain or Poland where the (non-minimum) wage costs are a fraction of what they are here. my compny is recruiting lots of programmers and data analysts, with virtually none of the positions coming to UK offices (only really senior management gets recruited here now).

This really isn't anything to do with the EU though is it? This happens the world over just replace Spain and Portugal with India and the like. The search for cheap labour in a global market place effects every developed country around the world.

The question seems to be 'What can the UK offer within the UK job market?' I seem to remember that when the manufacturing base was dismantled in the 80's we were told that we would be the European hub for the financial sector. Is this still the case?

 

[BadFish]

No, incorrect.

It's not about minimum wage, it's about tradesman consistently being undercut by guys who are prepared to leave their homelands, live four to a room and don't have the same living costs.

Like in Auf Wiedersehen Pet?