[Humour] Would you vote leave or remain..

[BadFish]

Yes but unlike the EU, the UK electorate determines which party wins the most seats which in turn determines who is the Prime Minister. The EU is not the same and is similar in many ways to how FIFA is run, which most people would agree is not the best.

So it's not really any less democratic, just a different system and because FIFA do something similar you don't like it?

 

[Mustafa II]

Leave.

Brexit was/is a great opportunity.

The biggest failure has been that we have had an utterly clueless government and leadership since Brexit.

If we had more competance in government, then we would be seeing considerably more rewards right now.

But that's not to say future governments won't do better. The EU will ultimately fail, and once it does, we will be in a great position having had left it first.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

The referendum result then. I'd change my vote to leave to piss off the twats like that berk who stands outside parliament every day. The twats that protested after the vote. The "Not my PM" twats that protested after the last election. Basically anyone who is childish enough to not accept they lost.

Come off it Arthur. We all know that those who campaigned for Brexit did not know what Leave meant. They also know that had they defined it - the country would not have voted for it. There was a poll that suggested that 60 per cent of Leave voters thought we were staying in the single market. It's been an unmitigated cock-up. There may have been an opportunity - had we paused to work out what we as a country wanted (Cameron effed off and May drew lines apparently not understanding what they meant) we might have made a fist of it. And then there is Johnson.

Of course people are going to protest. As is their right.

 

[MJsGhost]

Leave.

Brexit was/is a great opportunity.

Yeah, but pesky economists like Adam Posen who, y'know... analyse things like this for a living, called that out as b******s long ago.





EDIT: Here's a shorter clip in case you're short of time (though you'll need to follow the link to watch it directly on YouTube):

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Leave.

Brexit was/is a great opportunity.

The biggest failure has been that we have had an utterly clueless government and leadership since Brexit.

If we had more competance in government, then we would be seeing considerably more rewards right now.

But that's not to say future governments won't do better. The EU will ultimately fail, and once it does, we will be in a great position having had left it first.

You are a rum cove.

Have you considered the possibility that Brexit has failed not because the Johnson government was too shit to do it properly, but because Brexit was a shit idea that was always unworkable?

What sort of future government do you think would make Brexit work? Given that in your apparent view the current right wing populist government has failed, presumably some sort of left wing, possibly Corbynista government would make it work?

But you are onto a winner with your reasoning. If Brexit is forevermore a damaging and foolish enterprise you can always blame whatever government is in charge at the time for not making it work.

How many times, do you think, one should keep doing the same thing that hasn't been working in the hope that somehow it will suddenly start to work? Let's see what a clever man says about such a strategy: “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.”

 

[Mustafa II]

You are a rum cove.

Have you considered the possibility that Brexit has failed not because the Johnson government was too shit to do it properly, but because Brexit was a shit idea that was always unworkable?

What sort of future government do you think would make Brexit work? Given that in your apparent view the current right wing populist government has failed, presumably some sort of left wing, possibly Corbynista government would make it work?

But you are onto a winner with your reasoning. If Brexit is forevermore a damaging and foolish enterprise you can always blame whatever government is in charge at the time for not making it work.

How many times, do you think, one should keep doing the same thing that hasn't been working in the hope that somehow it will suddenly start to work? Let's see what a clever man says about such a strategy: “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.”

Brexit hasn't failed. Everything is fine. It's gone as pretty much as badly as it could have done, but in the grand sceme of things, we're still doing okay.

Needless to say, had we had a better government in charge, it would have gone better, obviously. It's a shame that we didn't, but it's an ongoing process. The key thing is that we're out now. If we vote another incompetant Tory government in at the next election, then we deserve everything that's coming to us - but the opportunities are still there to us, and we have the rest of time to make the most of them.

I am confident that the 'united states of Europe' project would never have worked, and it is destined to fail. Leaving will prove to one of the best things that we have ever done, over time, regardless of what the short-sighted doom mongers believe.

The EU is a sinking ship. Other major countries will leave too. It is only a matter of time.

 

[Farehamseagull]

Have we got 49 Leeds fans on here or something?! The delusion is strong with them.

 

[MJsGhost]

But you are onto a winner with your reasoning. If Brexit is forevermore a damaging and foolish enterprise you can always blame whatever government is in charge at the time for not making it work.

Just this weekend, I couldn't help but overhear a conversation taking place in my next-door neighbour's garden. My neighbour's guest (Jeff) was, is and always will be an ardent brexiteer - a JRM acolyte who, funnily enough, made his money working for a hedge fund...

He trotted out this exact argument, insisting that Brexit is a massive missed opportunity because it has been watered down by the woke brigade and that the government hasn't the balls to make a proper fist of it. Obviously, he loves BJ and claims he was the only man who could have made it work (if not for the 'establishment') but that he's been hounded out by the mysterious forces that are really running the country. Jeff went on to say that if he were a younger man, he'd be leaving the country because it has gone to the dogs.

I got sick of listening to the drivel and went inside so I didn't have to hear any more (I am under strict orders from the wife not to fall out with our next-door neighbour as we have a planning application going in soon )

 

[BadFish]

 

[Greg Bobkin]

Leave.

Brexit was/is a great opportunity.

The biggest failure has been that we have had an utterly clueless government and leadership since Brexit.

If we had more competance in government, then we would be seeing considerably more rewards right now.

But that's not to say future governments won't do better. The EU will ultimately fail, and once it does, we will be in a great position having had left it first.

David Cameron (FOUR Prime Ministers ago) announced the date of the referendum on 20th February 2016. That's more than SEVEN years that people have had to prepare for this 'great opportunity'. And, once again, that's FOUR Prime Ministers who have had a crack at making it work – and NONE of them have managed it.

Now, I don't know if you're one of those people who lay the blame at the door of Remainers, Labour, Gary Lineker, the Wokerati or Channel 4 comedians – essentially anyone but, y'know, the people in charge of Brexit – but they buck stops with the Tories. Granted, they have been a shower, but some of the people in charge (David Davies, for example) LITERALLY had one job – to 'get Brexit done'. But it's not done. And even if people think it is 'done' it's "Not the Brexit I voted for".

I'm not sure if the EU will 'ultimately fail' – I'm not sure where you get the confidence to say that – but if it did, you can guarantee that the member countries will be much better prepared than the UK to survive without it.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

Brexit hasn't failed. Everything is fine. It's gone as pretty much as badly as it could have done, but in the grand sceme of things, we're still doing okay.

Needless to say, had we had a better government in charge, it would have gone better, obviously. It's a shame that we didn't, but it's an ongoing process. The key thing is that we're out now. If we vote another incompetant Tory government in at the next election, then we deserve everything that's coming to us - but the opportunities are still there to us, and we have the rest of time to make the most of them.

I am confident that the 'united states of Europe' project would never have worked, and it is destined to fail. Leaving will prove to one of the best things that we have ever done, over time, regardless of what the short-sighted doom mongers believe.

The EU is a sinking ship. Other major countries will leave too. It is only a matter of time.

1) That's hardly a ringing endorsement for something that was meant to make a massive improvement to people's lives
2) Tell that to the many people I know who run/ran business that have suffered – often to the point of being closed down – as a DIRECT consequence of Brexit and the negative cost and administrative issues that now come with dealing with the EU. They are most certainly not 'doing okay' – not even in 'the grand scheme of things'.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

I am confident that the 'united states of Europe' project would never have worked, and it is destined to fail. Leaving will prove to one of the best things that we have ever done, over time, regardless of what the short-sighted doom mongers believe.

You are perfectly entitled to that view. Of course we always had a veto on any perceived steps to a United States of Europe., and opt-outs as we took for the Euro. It could be of course, that you were the short-sighted doom monger.

 

[CaptainDaveUK]

So it's not really any less democratic, just a different system and because FIFA do something similar you don't like it?

It’s completely different, because the leaders can’t be voted out by the electorate, which leads to corruption. FIFA’s budget for the next three years is £11Billion, whereas the EU’s budget over the same period is something like £1/2Trillion. Corruption and the treatment of member states like Greece and Spain were two of many reasons why 52% voted to Leave.

 

[BadFish]

It’s completely different, because the leaders can’t be voted out by the electorate, which leads to corruption. FIFA’s budget for the next three years is £11Billion, whereas the EU’s budget over the same period is something like £1/2Trillion. Corruption and the treatment of member states like Greece and Spain were two of many reasons why 52% voted to Leave.

It is different but I don't accept that it is less democratic. Leaders are not directly voted for by the electorate in either Parliament. They are a step away and voted for by the people we elect.

To be honest, the FIFA thing seems like a bit of a red herring as the electorate don't vote for FIFA members.

 

[Greg Bobkin]

I am confident that the 'united states of Europe' project would never have worked, and it is destined to fail.

Not being funny, but I take all your predictions with a MASSIVE pinch of salt.

 

[CaptainDaveUK]

It is different but I don't accept that it is less democratic. Leaders are not directly voted for by the electorate in either Parliament. They are a step away and voted for by the people we elect.

To be honest, the FIFA thing seems like a bit of a red herring as the electorate don't vote for FIFA members.

The European Commissioners are voted for by MEPs, yes this is democratic but It is like the Conservative members (100,000 people) voting for their next leader who then becomes the Prime Minister. People generally thought, myself included, that when Liz Truss became PM, there should have been a general election. Yes we vote for our local MP but we also know that the party with the most seats will form a government and the leader of said party becomes the Prime Minister. The 30 people in the European Commission who run the EU are voted for by about 700 MEPs, who let’s face it hardly have a mandate from the people. Personally I prefer to see politicians held to account and voted out when appropriate, which can’t happen in the EU, which unfortunately leads to wide spread corruption.

 

[BadFish]

The European Commissioners are voted for by MEPs, yes this is democratic but It is like the Conservative members (100,000 people) voting for their next leader who then becomes the Prime Minister. People generally thought, myself included, that when Liz Truss became PM, there should have been a general election. Yes we vote for our local MP but we also know that the party with the most seats will form a government and the leader of said party becomes the Prime Minister. The 30 people in the European Commission who run the EU are voted for by about 700 MEPs, who let’s face it hardly have a mandate from the people. Personally I prefer to see politicians held to account and voted out when appropriate, which can’t happen in the EU, which unfortunately leads to wide spread corruption.

Don't they change every 5 years or something?

What is the widespread corruption you refer to?

 

[CaptainDaveUK]

Don't they change every 5 years or something?

What is the widespread corruption you refer to?

Yes one more year than the FIFA Presidency which is so democratic as we know.

Type “EU corruption Scandal” and take your pick. Like FIFA, the EU is set up in a way that makes corruption far more likely.

Sadly this happens in every walk of life but in many countries and across the EU it is endemic.

 

[BadFish]

Yes one more year than the FIFA Presidency which is so democratic as we know.

Type “EU corruption Scandal” and take your pick. Like FIFA, the EU is set up in a way that makes corruption far more likely.

Sadly this happens in every walk of life but in many countries and across the EU it is endemic.

Yes one more year than the FIFA Presidency which is so democratic as we know.

Type “EU corruption Scandal” and take your pick. Like FIFA, the EU is set up in a way that makes corruption far more likely.

Sadly this happens in every walk of life but in many countries and across the EU it is endemic.

Okay I did that, all the links are about a Qatar scandal. This appears to be about Qatar buying influence in the EU. Not sure this is anything to do with the time it takes to reelect a parliament.

Perhaps you can point to a better example?

If we are comparing though, do we have any serious proof that corruption is more common place in Europe than in Westminster? Come to think of it, it corruption levels the best metric to measure democratic levels?

I'm not so sure.

 

[Monkey Man]

I wish we were back in the EU.

Admittedly I'm only basing that view on economic, cultural, political, environmental, social, historical and humanitarian factors.