[Misc] Will the Unions bring everyone to their knees?

[FatSuperman]

I hope we all know the pertinent facts about this situation before we wade in on 'the unions'? No, oh quelle surprise.

Train operators have to sign contracts with the department of transport. Those contracts all state;

'During the contract term, the Operator shall not enter into any new Employment Agreements without prior written consent of the Secretary of State'

and

'The Operator's handling of industrial action will be subject always to the Secretary of State's direction.'

For clarity, that means that the train operator cannot change the employment contracts without the government being involved, and when strike action happens then they still can't do anything without the government. And in a shock move, the government are doing sweet F-all and pointing the finger at the unions. They know that the average Brit today is basically conditioned to believe whatever shit is posted in the papers.

I can't get my head around regular people who actually back the Tories, despite ALL THE BLOODY EVIDENCE. They will literally cheer tax breaks for millionaires and crooked politicians having parties, whilst slagging off train cleaners and nurses. I've got mates who think Boris is great because 'he'd be a laugh to go to the pub with'. **** me. Really? Someone with absolutely no morals and no regard for other humans is someone that we look up to is it? It doesn't piss me off that Boris does this or that. It pisses me off that people are so lazy they fall for it. Nobody even bothers to think for themselves.

The division being pushed in this country between 'the woke' and 'the gammons' is all exactly what the crooked wankers in charge want. We can sit here slagging each other off, whilst they just steal from us and blame foreigners. It's so ****ing tedious.

 

[clapham_gull]

what is this?

A classic track from a classic album.

( Must give it back to Beach Hut )

 

[London Irish]

https://twitter.com/amyhart1707/status/1539353544364523520?s=21&t=JjwyoS11sg0MFNvDUSzxWA

 

[WhingForPresident]

I hope we all know the pertinent facts about this situation before we wade in on 'the unions'? No, oh quelle surprise.

Train operators have to sign contracts with the department of transport. Those contracts all state;

'During the contract term, the Operator shall not enter into any new Employment Agreements without prior written consent of the Secretary of State'

and

'The Operator's handling of industrial action will be subject always to the Secretary of State's direction.'

For clarity, that means that the train operator cannot change the employment contracts without the government being involved, and when strike action happens then they still can't do anything without the government. And in a shock move, the government are doing sweet F-all and pointing the finger at the unions. They know that the average Brit today is basically conditioned to believe whatever shit is posted in the papers.

I can't get my head around regular people who actually back the Tories, despite ALL THE BLOODY EVIDENCE. They will literally cheer tax breaks for millionaires and crooked politicians having parties, whilst slagging off train cleaners and nurses. I've got mates who think Boris is great because 'he'd be a laugh to go to the pub with'. **** me. Really? Someone with absolutely no morals and no regard for other humans is someone that we look up to is it? It doesn't piss me off that Boris does this or that. It pisses me off that people are so lazy they fall for it. Nobody even bothers to think for themselves.

The division being pushed in this country between 'the woke' and 'the gammons' is all exactly what the crooked wankers in charge want. We can sit here slagging each other off, whilst they just steal from us and blame foreigners. It's so ****ing tedious.

Good post. As already outlined, I don't agree with the way the RMT generally conduct themselves with their total resistance to compromise/change, and there is obviously an element of a political undercurrent, but they had a clear mandate to resort to these measures and they shouldn't be blamed for doing so. There is only one place where the fingers should be pointed; at the ones who are shrugging their shoulders and absolving themselves of any wrongdoing.

In my opinion, the top brass at NR & RMT broadly want the same things, but there is a hideous elephant in the room which is getting in the way.

 

[rogersix]

I feel the underlying message will be that we are ultimately animals.

We breed and strongly protect our own. We want to provide what we can for them and protect them, it's instinctive.

Secondly, we show compassion for those less fortunate, but ultimately charity begins at home.

Mankind is a very selfish entity, yet words otherwise are very cheap.

are you calling for violent insurrection?

 

[GT49er]

Anyone who stands up against the Johnsons and Rees Moggs of this world gets a thumbs up from me.

Putin?

 

[BadFish]

I guess the benefit of this for Boris is that he can now blame Labour for all the problems in the UK.

Who would believe that though?

https://www.northstandchat.com/showthread.php?395101-Will-the-Unions-bring-everyone-to-their-knees

 

[rogersix]

Putin?

are they not all on the same team?

 

[Baldseagull]

I was thinking more of legislation against Unions, as Thatcher introduced:

Need to have a ballot before action
Secondary picketing banned
7 days notice of action......

I see Johnson & co wanting to bring in even more legislation to restrict Unions further.

There is a stronger mandate required for strike action than there is to become Prime minister.

 

[Baldseagull]

https://twitter.com/amyhart1707/status/1539353544364523520?s=21&t=JjwyoS11sg0MFNvDUSzxWA

Making her Dad proud.

 

[Stat Brother]

Seeing stuff like this makes me think the RMT and ALL the foreign owners of our rail network, are just lots of bald men arguing over a single comb - just the way this government likes it.

[tweet]1538757056492195841[/tweet]

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I hope we all know the pertinent facts about this situation before we wade in on 'the unions'? No, oh quelle surprise.

Train operators have to sign contracts with the department of transport. Those contracts all state;

'During the contract term, the Operator shall not enter into any new Employment Agreements without prior written consent of the Secretary of State'

and

'The Operator's handling of industrial action will be subject always to the Secretary of State's direction.'

For clarity, that means that the train operator cannot change the employment contracts without the government being involved, and when strike action happens then they still can't do anything without the government. And in a shock move, the government are doing sweet F-all and pointing the finger at the unions. They know that the average Brit today is basically conditioned to believe whatever shit is posted in the papers.

I can't get my head around regular people who actually back the Tories, despite ALL THE BLOODY EVIDENCE. They will literally cheer tax breaks for millionaires and crooked politicians having parties, whilst slagging off train cleaners and nurses. I've got mates who think Boris is great because 'he'd be a laugh to go to the pub with'. **** me. Really? Someone with absolutely no morals and no regard for other humans is someone that we look up to is it? It doesn't piss me off that Boris does this or that. It pisses me off that people are so lazy they fall for it. Nobody even bothers to think for themselves.

The division being pushed in this country between 'the woke' and 'the gammons' is all exactly what the crooked wankers in charge want. We can sit here slagging each other off, whilst they just steal from us and blame foreigners. It's so ****ing tedious.

Perhaps what you can’t get your head round isn’t actually true ? Disagreeing with what the unions are doing doesn’t mean supporting the Government. I don’t think the Government should be involved in the dispute and that is perfectly in line with the clause you mention. I do think that market forces will drive up wages as there are skill shortages elsewhere in the economy and if the rail workers are underpaid it is this fact that will undermine the current pay awards.

 

[Bold Seagull]

The chatter of modernising is being sucked into believing the private sector line of reducing costs - and not necessarily for the best. If only there had been a greater fight against Beechings cuts and we’d have a far more extensive rail network further reducing the car - but unfortunately that ship, sold on needing to ‘modernise’ and create ‘efficiencies’ sailed.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

I consider this a reasonable question.

The answer is no.

The sad things are these:

1. The workers have some cause for grievance, but not much
2. The union leadership see striking as a tool for facilitatiing confrontation (and The Revolution)
3. The Johnson government see this as an opportunity to justify upscaling anti union laws.

In an idea world, a key sector union would cede the right to strike for some benefits, like favourable pay incrementation compared with other sectors and perhaps more employment protection. This would be sensible because in key industries this would preclude irksome strikes like this one.

The RMT do not appear to want such an arrangement, because it would take away their 'freedom' to strike.
The Johnson government certainly don't, for much the same reason (it benefits tories when nominally publicly owned industry strikes because it justifies in the minds of some (you, perhaps) the idea of privatization and new laws on strikes).
Incidentally, this also means that Johnson does not care about the inconvenience of the strike as it provides him with a law changing opportunity, and the more disruption the better.

I agree with nearly all your post apart from point one. Particularlly the "not much". With inflation running so high a 3% increase is pretty poor - especially for those on low pay. But to even get that they have to agrees to 2000 people losing their jobs. The biggest thing though is the changes to their pensions which will see all of them out of pocket and some to the tune of thousands of pounds. Now remind me the last sector to go on strike about pensions ... ah .... yes ... Uni staff

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

The chatter of modernising is being sucked into believing the private sector line of reducing costs - and not necessarily for the best. If only there had been a greater fight against Beechings cuts and we’d have a far more extensive rail network further reducing the car - but unfortunately that ship, sold on needing to ‘modernise’ and create ‘efficiencies’ sailed.

Completely agree. For ‘modernizing’ read increase profits for shareholders. I don’t see what is standing in the way of re nationalizing the rail network. I would still oppose the strike action.

 

[El Presidente]

In answer to the original question.

Calling [MENTION=34942]Dr. No[/MENTION]

 

[El Presidente]

I agree with nearly all your post apart from point one. Particularlly the "not much". With inflation running so high a 3% increase is pretty poor - especially for those on low pay. But to even get that they have to agrees to 2000 people losing their jobs. The biggest thing though is the changes to their pensions which will see all of them out of pocket and some to the tune of thousands of pounds. Now remind me the last sector to go on strike about pensions ... ah .... yes ... Uni staff

Only members of UCU went on strike. Many have left that Union (me included) as unhappy with culture and strategy of leadership.

 

[Machiavelli]

The chatter of modernising is being sucked into believing the private sector line of reducing costs - and not necessarily for the best. If only there had been a greater fight against Beechings cuts and we’d have a far more extensive rail network further reducing the car - but unfortunately that ship, sold on needing to ‘modernise’ and create ‘efficiencies’ sailed.

Agree completely about Beeching. What it achieved was to marginalise the provinces, and it was the marginalisation of the provinces (along with other factors, granted) that led to a surge behind Brexit.

 

[beorhthelm]

Completely agree. For ‘modernizing’ read increase profits for shareholders. I don’t see what is standing in the way of re nationalizing the rail network. I would still oppose the strike action.

Network Rail was nationalised about 20 years ago. no shareholders, operating profits go back to railway.

 

[darkwolf666]

Nothing to do with outdated labour intensive technology then.

The job market changes we need to adapt to those changes.

But the point is print had moved with technology. I started my days as a compositor, setting lead based type by hand - over the next 30 years my job morphed into something completely different, due to technological changes.

The print unions did move with technological changes, but at the same time wanted to stand up for the rights of its members.

The destruction of the print union by Mrs Thatcher was purely one of political motivation and the hatred of unions that appears to be shared by some on these boards - driven by envy!

The current government appear to be playing the same game.

While unions and their leaders may not be perfect, I do believe they have the best interests of their members at heart, for those that voted for action - can the same be said of HMG and for those that voted for them?