[Albion] What exactly would the next manager do that would make everything good?

[GT49er]

I want a club with a future, not a fast ride in a clapped out Cortina with a Jagermeister in one hand and a peroxide blond with no knickers on my lap.

............"Cortina with a Jagermeister in one hand and a peroxide blond with no knickers"?

Well, if you don't want them....................................

 

[Justice]

As a matter of interest....given he's on a 6 year contract with 5 years left....how much would it cost to sack him?

l’m guessing not as much as relegation would.

 

[DJ NOBO]

Not going to discuss whether its his fault or not. I've followed football for a long time and its always the managers fault in every football team ever and I see no reason why Potter would be the exception.

What I'm wondering is what the next manager (until it becomes his fault as well) is going to do that will make everything great finally establishing the club in its well-deserved, quality wise obvious position somewhere around the Champions League positions?

Lets have a thread without the blame game - just some basic constructive debate. The Magic Mr X surely got the magic solution - but what does it look like?

Set pieces. Set pieces. Set pieces.
When you’re a lesser Prem team you have to be effective at them.
But Whether it be defending them or attacking we are league one standard.
And Believe it or not Swansman, they used to be a strength.
A manager with better know how could surely improve this.

 

[Justice]

Well, I'm going to respond to this, because this is as good a summary of our current predicament that you'll find. The only thing I'll add is that GP is carrying out TB's wishes. How many DS players did Hughton blood? He gave Tilley 20 seconds, but that was about it (March and Dunk were picked way before he arrived).

Sanchez started today, made a cracking save, exuded real presence, and scintillating distribution. We may get to sell Ryan in the next window for a decent fee, and lose him off the wage bill.
While he hasn't come through the DS, Lamptey is as exciting as it gets. Enjoy him while he lasts, think about the transfer fee we'll receive.
Although everyone was lauding Southampton's set-up seven years ago, they released Ben White. We picked him up, and have developed him superbly. He's a cracking poster boy for our set-up. He will also go for a big, big fee.
Solly also came through, and is attracting plaudits far and wide.
Alzate played a season in L2 and received great acclaim. Yet that's hardly preparation for the PL. Potter identified him pre-season, and started selecting him early on.
Molumby has PL experience now, Sanders is not far off.
The 20yo Connolly already has 20-odd PL appearances to his name. There are not many other strikers in the PL of that age. I'm sure some bright spark will pop up and point out his performance today, or his miss. I don't want to defend either, but it might be worth contemplating how well Kane or DC-L were doing at that age.
And then there's Roberts, Walton, Ostigard, Richards, Longman all poised, and then the likes of Weir, Jenks, and plenty more to come.

The best metric to predict PL position is player wages. Ours is about where we are. If you're bright and patient, you try and cheat/beat that metric, and that's what TB is trying to do. Most banging on on this thread are neither bright nor patient.

Although that all becomes irrelevant if we get relegated. Could be years before we make it back if we ever do.

 

[trueblue]

Although that all becomes irrelevant if we get relegated. Could be years before we make it back if we ever do.

It doesn't really become irrelevant because as well as huge pots of cash comparative to other Championship clubs (especially in the post-COVID age), we'd also have a wealth of young talent on reasonable wages very likely to thrive at that level. They could gain great experience en route to promotion - as Ben White did last year.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

............"Cortina with a Jagermeister in one hand and a peroxide blond with no knickers"?

Well, if you don't want them....................................

 

[Farehamseagull]

Is it their fault though? Why is Dunk struggling? Because he is shit? Or because he is playing in a 3 with zonal marking? Why can't Ryan make a save any more? Because he isn't suddenly a decent shot stopper? Or because of the defensive line, because of zonal marking, because of coaching, because he has had a bust up behind the scenes? Why does Trossard look bang average? Because he is shit or because he hasn't played in his most natural postion all season?

I'm not saying the players shouldn't take some blame. But it's also about how they are managed. It has to be, otherwise what exactly is the point of a manager?

Also, if they are so bad why is he playing them? Why isn't Mac or Alzate playing instead of Tross? Why hasn't Dunk been dropped? Why did Connolly and Maupay start today? That is his decision.

I think you’re letting the players off massively there.

Dunk - he’s an experienced international with the perfect skill set to play in a back three. If he’s not able to perform in that role or adapt to zonal marking then he’s not the player we thought he was. White and Webster have managed it ok. And he performed really well for Potter last season so I don’t think you can say his dramatic loss of form is down to Potter’s management And as for Dunk being captain?! The lack of leadership from him is telling. Give it to Webster;

Ryan - What is Potter supposed to do when he consistently lets in soft shots and offers no confidence to the defence on crosses and set pieces because he can’t claim the ball. GP can’t parry or catch the ball himself. Ryan simply wasn’t doing his job well enough. Rightly he’s been dropped now, it was the only option;

Trossard - brilliant sometimes, utter crap, goes totally missing and looks totally disinterested most other times. Again, what can Potter do about that sort of inconsistency?

 

[vagabond]

It's interesting that so many people seem to think Eddie Howe would be a massive improvement when, year after year, his team shipped ridiculous numbers of goals but survived because of their strikers. Even if he could get a bit more out of our currently sub-standard forwards, Howe might well have us heading the same way Bournemouth went last season, and fast.

It’s incredibly naive isn’t it, Eddie Howe.

A manager I felt was overrated to being with, but now having taken his team down, and our manager kept us up, these people want us to swap. Ludicrous.

 

[Perfidious Albion]

Eddie Howe? I remember when Bournemouth were our rivals that he was vilified on here as a pompous clown ...now certain people are calling for to come here.... I don’t get it .
What might a new manager bring ? Perhaps an extensive network of contacts to find us a forward , on loan perhaps who could find the net . I am remembering Gus and the number of Spanish players that we had. Perhaps some basic coaching of how to defend corners?
But, I am on the fence about GP... and in the end Tony will do what Tony will do.

 

[DJ NOBO]

It’s incredibly naive isn’t it, Eddie Howe.

A manager I felt was overrated to being with, but now having taken his team down, and our manager kept us up, these people want us to swap. Ludicrous.

Naivety coming from you?

You focus on his one bad season out of ten, but Howe took Bournemouth from League Two to the fringes of Europe in what, six years? That’s astounding. He’d be good for us. Although I’d prefer Potter to get more time with a decent striker brought in on January 1.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Not going to discuss whether its his fault or not. I've followed football for a long time and its always the managers fault in every football team ever and I see no reason why Potter would be the exception.

What I'm wondering is what the next manager (until it becomes his fault as well) is going to do that will make everything great finally establishing the club in its well-deserved, quality wise obvious position somewhere around the Champions League positions?

Lets have a thread without the blame game - just some basic constructive debate. The Magic Mr X surely got the magic solution - but what does it look like?

With the tools we have:

1) Set pieces (spot on [MENTION=2437]DJ NOBO[/MENTION] ) as they are dire at both ends of the pitch
2) Not convinced 3 / 5 at the back is right. To an extent we have been forced into it by a lack of proper left back but four at the back with a holding midfielder would cover a lot of the breaks straight through us. Good analysis on MOTD on Liverpool (yes I know) who play a 4 but get Henderson to cover when one of the full backs goes high - so you could still use Lamptey in an attacking way. We could buy a specific CDM in the January window but there are plenty at the club who could do a job there in the meanwhile
3) Play Lallana as a "10" behind two strikers. So I'm looking at a 4-1-2-1-2 before you accuse me of Mike Bassetry.
4) Related to 2, realise that Dan Burn is not a left back.
5) Instil a bit of leadership, willing and confidence. I thought that was Potter's shtick. We look rudderless

With the tools we need:

6) Build the side around a new, proven striker.

 

[warmleyseagull]

Reading through these posts, there is the tacit dilemma that we all face as non ITK pundits: we don't know whether the players are not good enough, or whether the system is mistaken, or, perhaps, a bit of both. Pretty much every post fall one side of the argument or the other, but, to repeat, we cannot know the truth, therefore cannot readily answer the question.

One comment that sticks in my mind was by Pep Guardiola after the lockdown game; went something like that he admires Potter because he is trying to play a creative way without the ammunition to guarantee success. "It is easy for me, as I have some of the best players in the world" Pep continued.

Ancelotti mentioned something similar a few weeks ago. Pardew a few months ago said candidly on TV that Potter's way would not be his (yes, I know we wouldn't want Pardew but has awareness of what you need to do to survive at this level).

I agree with many of the comments about players underperforming, but to a large degree their ability and confidence relies on a system that matches their ability; Bielsa gets that very well, not so sure GP does.

I cannot agree that managers always dictate success or failure: it is the quality of players that does that. Assuming that quality correlates to wages, then this must be true because the League table (with Burnley as outlier) very closes correlates with wage bill by end of season. Put it another way: do we seriously think a GP managed Liverpool would have 12 points after 14 games?

My instinct is that GP does over analyse; react to opposition's perceived strengths rather than seek to impose ours; tinkers too much. If I am right, then a new manager would do those three things differently.

 

[sydney]

we are not going to get a next manager , we need our current crop of players to grow a decent pair of nuts between them , get a jerking back bone and have a go at scoring a few more goals , we have proved that we can get a goal when we NEED one so why not start the game with the mindset of scoring 3 or 4 for ****sake ....it's not rocket science.

 

[sydney]

[QUOTEer)
My instinct is that GP does over analyse; react to opposition's perceived strengths rather than seek to impose ours; tinkers too much. If I am right, then a new manager would do those three things differently.[/QUOTE]

yes ... so rather than go out and play our own game and impose ourselves on the opposition he tailors the set up to suit the opposition .....that has bottom 3rd written all over it don't you think ...??

 

[boik]

I think we probably (possibly) all agree that we are creating at least enough good chances, and conceding relatively few bad chances.

Therefore it seems a bit strange to shout about systems, motivatiion, players out of position. Would that create even more chances. How many chances do we actually have to create?

We have a lack of striking quality, which means we rush and miss a good few chances. This results in a lack of confidence which leads to rushing and missing. We either need to find a new clinical striker, or for a few spawny goals to go in to give our existing strikers more confidence to take their time and make more certain with their chances. Ideally I would like both.

We ARE creating chances. That bit doesn't need to change. I'll get shouted down, but I'm happy with Potter. He's getting the team to create enough chances, whilst bringing through some decent youngsters. Most of them wont make it to the top level, but you have to give them a chance to find out.

Potter IN!

 

[Milano]

[QUOTEer)
My instinct is that GP does over analyse; react to opposition's perceived strengths rather than seek to impose ours; tinkers too much. If I am right, then a new manager would do those three things differently.

yes ... so rather than go out and play our own game and impose ourselves on the opposition he tailors the set up to suit the opposition .....that has bottom 3rd written all over it don't you think ...??[/QUOTE]

I think he tries to counter the opposition, which is fair enough. I don’t think he changes it quickly enough though, he doesn’t react, it’s all pre-planned.
An example is Leicester where Rodgers admitted that we surprised them with formation, the result was we were the better team in the first 15 minutes and should have scored. Rodgers tweaked it, Potter didn’t do anything to counter and slowly we were overrun.

Yesterday he got it wrong, SU were always going to sit in, so Maupay and Connolly are not the correct two for that as there’s no space behind, where as Liverpool it worked well as they don’t sit in.
Having got it wrong he compounded it by waiting far too long to bring on Welbeck. The decision to move March and have Zeqiri at LW was also baffling, that should have been a straight swap with Connolly.

Having said all that this is still NOWHERE NEAR as bad as the last 4 months under Hughton, nothing like the Muff or Cardiff games.

Tony should not replace Potter yet and I don’t think he will.

 

[vagabond]

I think we probably (possibly) all agree that we are creating at least enough good chances, and conceding relatively few bad chances.

Therefore it seems a bit strange to shout about systems, motivatiion, players out of position. Would that create even more chances. How many chances do we actually have to create?

We have a lack of striking quality, which means we rush and miss a good few chances. This results in a lack of confidence which leads to rushing and missing. We either need to find a new clinical striker, or for a few spawny goals to go in to give our existing strikers more confidence to take their time and make more certain with their chances. Ideally I would like both.

We ARE creating chances. That bit doesn't need to change. I'll get shouted down, but I'm happy with Potter. He's getting the team to create enough chances, whilst bringing through some decent youngsters. Most of them wont make it to the top level, but you have to give them a chance to find out.

Potter IN!

[emoji122][emoji122][emoji122][emoji122]

 

[7oaksgull]

This

 

[7oaksgull]

I think we probably (possibly) all agree that we are creating at least enough good chances, and conceding relatively few bad chances.

Therefore it seems a bit strange to shout about systems, motivatiion, players out of position. Would that create even more chances. How many chances do we actually have to create?

We have a lack of striking quality, which means we rush and miss a good few chances. This results in a lack of confidence which leads to rushing and missing. We either need to find a new clinical striker, or for a few spawny goals to go in to give our existing strikers more confidence to take their time and make more certain with their chances. Ideally I would like both.

We ARE creating chances. That bit doesn't need to change. I'll get shouted down, but I'm happy with Potter. He's getting the team to create enough chances, whilst bringing through some decent youngsters. Most of them wont make it to the top level, but you have to give them a chance to find out.

Potter IN!

Spot on

 

[Pint of Ale and a Burger]

Potter is doing most things right with the players he has at his disposal.
I see what the club is trying to achieve as putting in the foundations of a way of playing that creates a standard for players to be taught at the academy,played in the first team and also make recruitment far simpler and less of a gamble.
Its a long process but I think what we are seeing this first half of the season leading into January is the final weeding out of players that simply don't fit into this way of playing.
Potter is doing an excellent job of creating the foundations and then we can start to increase individual positions quality from the academy and transfer market.
Its a long term commitment which I believe will pay off in terms of success.
I honestly can't see another manager being better than potter at what the club wants to achieve.
I think rather than time for a new manager its now time for a couple of new players in January just to increase the quality and put the ball in the back of the net and then I think we will be fine in the second part of this season.
Let's stick with potter please.