[News] Vegan raw food influencer dies of starvation aged 39

[Neville's Breakfast]

This isn't a thread about influencers, it is a thread about one particular influencer. One that we really don't know enough about to be making judgements.

I fully agree with what you are saying but closing this thread is not sweeping the issue under the carpet. A more general thread would be far more useful to discuss what needs to be discussed.

This one is upsetting people.

I don’t mind whether the thread is closed or not. I don’t think it would make much difference to the nature or quality of the debate. Perhaps it’s a discussion that people (not you) just won’t allow at the moment but I am interested in the psychologies at play here from all angles. As teachers we are often trying to keep up with issues that we have no direct life experience of.

 

[Littlemo]

I think it brings up the interesting question of digital literacy, who we should be reading and listening to online and how to look at what’s being said in a critical way.

This isn’t something that’s taught, librarians have been trying to get it into the school curriculum for some time but aren’t being allowed (not so much the subject but lots of red tape.)

It’s more important than ever because the internet has essentially sprung up, anyone can post anything they want unchecked, and there are many people who will read and be influenced by it. We need to start teaching people, kids and adults, how to properly assess sources and be more critical of what they believe in.

 

[BBassic]

It's a sad story whichever side of the debate you fall on. My other half worked in an ED unit as part of her placement on her psychology degree and from the little she told me it sounds horrific, just an awful disease to be afflicted with.

 

[Dibdab]

Nothing healthy about a raw food diet. Physically you’re missing key nutrients. Mentally you’re missing enjoying food.

Id wager plenty of people following a proper raw food diet are getting plenty more nutrients than half the population that are living largely on processed crap.

 

[Billy the Fish]

This thread is classic social media - pick a side and fight to the death for it.

People interpreted the OP as an attack on vegans and people with EDs, which they see as protected characteristics, which in turn makes the influencer immune from criticism.

She's been putting out content that must be incredibly harmful to people with body and/or eating issues. I don't see why that should be swept under the carpet.

 

[beorhthelm]

Id wager plenty of people following a proper raw food diet are getting plenty more nutrients than half the population that are living largely on processed crap.

nutrients yes, calories no. most calorific foods are less digestable raw, cant extract the calories. human digestion has been tuned to processed foods, cooking being the original process.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

This.

Animals don't cook their food, and the last cow I saw didn't look like it was going to starve soon, despite its diet of almost exclusively raw grass.

This isn't a very good argument. Ruminants have three stomachs so they can digest grass. We don't have enough stomach or the cellulase necessary to extract nutrition from grass. We have been cooking a mixed diet for thousands of years and have thrived because this suits us, with the cooking helping deconstruct the contents of a variety of foods and destroy bacteria and fungi that may be harmful.

To opt for a raw veg diet requires carefully balancing a range of different plants/seed/fruit. Because the gains from cooking are lost you will have to eat a much greater bulk of food to obtain sufficient nutrition. Like a cow. Only moreso because we don't have three stomachs and cellulase.

And the food will need to be very carefully washed. I would recommend spending as much time washing the food as one would have spent cooking it.

Anthropomorphic arguments don't work. Would you eat like a cat? Exclusively meat, including mice and birds? No vitamin C (cats don't need it)? Good luck, you skurvey dog!!

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

This thread is classic social media - pick a side and fight to the death for it.

People interpreted the OP as an attack on vegans and people with EDs, which they see as protected characteristics, which in turn makes the influencer immune from criticism.

She's been putting out content that must be incredibly harmful to people with body and/or eating issues. I don't see why that should be swept under the carpet.

Not entirely. There is an interesting conversation on the wisdom of a raw veg diet. And a sideline on mental health.

No culture war here. Not even a war about whether fermented vegetables constitutes 'raw'.

 

[el punal]

do any of these 'influencers' know much about their subject matter thought their main attribute is fleecing the gullible.

It seems that way doesn’t it? Aimed mainly at a younger, immature audience who are easily led I would imagine.

 

[Dibdab]

nutrients yes, calories no. most calorific foods are less digestable raw, cant extract the calories. human digestion has been tuned to processed foods, cooking being the original process.

Plenty of calories in Advocados, olives, nuts. There are plenty of people on raw diets (I'm not one!) that do just fine and aren't painfully thin. You just have to plan your food well. This poor girl sounds like she basically had anorexia.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Agreed.

Or better still, people should learn to not be so easily influenced, then, the interest in being an influencer may disappear.

What's wrong with having a mentor anyway?

It's a sad story whichever side of the debate you fall on. My other half worked in an ED unit as part of her placement on her psychology degree and from the little she told me it sounds horrific, just an awful disease to be afflicted with.

There isn't really a side to the debate is there? Is anyone saying they are pleased she's dead?

I haven't read the whole thread. I did get a sense that some were criticizing the OP for posting gratuitous clickbait. But the reality is that there is a certain irony in that someone advocating a certain lifestyle was killed by that lifestyle. If there is a debate it is perhaps about whether advocating that lifestyle/diet is itself a symptom of mental illness, and whether it is wrong for the unpoliced internet to indulge and encourage the mentally ill.

Anyway, the best solution to influencers is, I suspect to be an ignorer. I can offer advanced training in this if anyone wants it. The full training course lasts up to ten seconds.

 

[BBassic]

There isn't really a side to the debate is there? Is anyone saying they are pleased she's dead?

No no, I don't think anyone's pleased. Poor choice of words on my part perhaps.

 

[Littlemo]

Plenty of calories in Advocados, olives, nuts. There are plenty of people on raw diets (I'm not one!) that do just fine and aren't painfully thin. You just have to plan your food well. This poor girl sounds like she basically had anorexia.

That isn’t necessarily true. Plenty of people can look ok on the outside but not be ok on the inside.

I’ve had treatment for ED in the past, the very basis of that treatment is that restriction like this is inherently unhealthy. Cooked food is actually quite important, just as some nutrients can be lost through cooking, many foods actually are better absorbed through cooking, so the cooking stage is actually quite important.

 

[Billy the Fish]

Not entirely. There is an interesting conversation on the wisdom of a raw veg diet. And a sideline on mental health.

No culture war here. Not even a war about whether fermented vegetables constitutes 'raw'.

Which prompted me to Google it.

The Raw Food Diet: A Beginner's Guide and Review

This is a detailed review of the raw food diet. It explains what to eat, provides a sample menu and examines the science behind this diet.

www.healthline.com

Sounds like a bit of a slog, but as always with these things it's horses for courses and doable of you really want to with the right knowledge and application.

About 10 years ago I'd become overweight so I cut carbs and alcohol for three months and went to the gym 4 times a week. Was the best I've ever felt and the best shape I'd been in but there's pros and cons to everything. The biggest con was how boring I was, I had literally nothing to talk about at the pub, I was boring myself telling people about it. I also realised I love getting smashed and freshly baked bread is amazing so decided to stick with an "everything in moderation" approach.

 

[Eric the meek]

I've just read this thread, and it saddens me that there are so many assumptions and so much outrage based on those assumptions. I can't remember so many people being so outraged so quickly.

The death is still being investigated. According to the report below, her family await the release of the medical report and death certificate.

For those who are prone to jump to conclusions, look where it can take you:

'Despite the possible negative aspects of Samsonova's dietary approach, numerous loyal followers remain unconvinced that her eating habits played a role in her passing. Instead, they contend that chemicals present in the fruit she consumed are responsible for her demise'.

Never mind the fact that she avoided all 5 of the essential food groups for the last 4 years of her life then.

Vegan influencer Zhanna D’Art’s death: Nutritionist declares ‘you can’t survive on fruits’, warns influencers against promoting misleading eating habits

According to Dr. Rebecca Reynolds, a nutritionist based in Sydney, if Zhanna Samsonova's diet indeed comprised solely of "fruits, sunflower seed sprouts, fruit smoothies, and juices," there is no question that she would have eventually faced serious health complications, as outlined in the report.

economictimes.indiatimes.com

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I've just read this thread, and it saddens me that there are so many assumptions and so much outrage based on those assumptions. I can't remember so many people being so outraged so quickly.

The death is still being investigated. According to the report below, her family await the release of the medical report and death certificate.

For those who are prone to jump to conclusions, look where it can take you:

'Despite the possible negative aspects of Samsonova's dietary approach, numerous loyal followers remain unconvinced that her eating habits played a role in her passing. Instead, they contend that chemicals present in the fruit she consumed are responsible for her demise'.

Never mind the fact that she avoided all 5 of the essential food groups for the last 4 years of her life then.

Vegan influencer Zhanna D’Art’s death: Nutritionist declares ‘you can’t survive on fruits’, warns influencers against promoting misleading eating habits

According to Dr. Rebecca Reynolds, a nutritionist based in Sydney, if Zhanna Samsonova's diet indeed comprised solely of "fruits, sunflower seed sprouts, fruit smoothies, and juices," there is no question that she would have eventually faced serious health complications, as outlined in the report.

economictimes.indiatimes.com

The only outrage on this thread seems to have been aimed in quite a personal way at the OP. Thankfully that has died down and the debate has developed in quite an interesting and useful way.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

That isn’t necessarily true. Plenty of people can look ok on the outside but not be ok on the inside.

I’ve had treatment for ED in the past, the very basis of that treatment is that restriction like this is inherently unhealthy. Cooked food is actually quite important, just as some nutrients can be lost through cooking, many foods actually are better absorbed through cooking, so the cooking stage is actually quite important.

Would it be possible for you to share the types of treatment available ? It feels a bit personal to ask but was it when you were school age ? Please tell me to mind my own business if necessary. As mentioned earlier my interest comes from being a school teacher.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

This isn't a very good argument. Ruminants have three stomachs so they can digest grass. We don't have enough stomach or the cellulase necessary to extract nutrition from grass. We have been cooking a mixed diet for thousands of years and have thrived because this suits us, with the cooking helping deconstruct the contents of a variety of foods and destroy bacteria and fungi that may be harmful.

To opt for a raw veg diet requires carefully balancing a range of different plants/seed/fruit. Because the gains from cooking are lost you will have to eat a much greater bulk of food to obtain sufficient nutrition. Like a cow. Only moreso because we don't have three stomachs and cellulase.

And the food will need to be very carefully washed. I would recommend spending as much time washing the food as one would have spent cooking it.

Anthropomorphic arguments don't work. Would you eat like a cat? Exclusively meat, including mice and birds? No vitamin C (cats don't need it)? Good luck, you skurvey dog!!

Some really interesting information in that post and something for me to read further on. Thank you.

 

[beorhthelm]

Plenty of calories in Advocados, olives, nuts. There are plenty of people on raw diets (I'm not one!) that do just fine and aren't painfully thin. You just have to plan your food well. This poor girl sounds like she basically had anorexia.

for 1000 calories, you're looking at about 3 avocados, a Kg of olives, 6 packets of peanuts*. doable but a bit . or a bit over half a loaf of bread, which is much more palatable. a lot of planning needed, and bizarre after millennia of learning which foods are easy to eat to discard it for a lifestyle. its for good reason ancestors took nuts and olives, crushed them down, extracted the oils and put them in with other things.

*nuts is interesting example of another issue with nutritional information. they show data for lab extraction, which isnt how our digestion works. in case of nuts a large proportion remains locked up and passes through.

 

[Littlemo]

Would it be possible for you to share the types of treatment available ? It feels a bit personal to ask but was it when you were school age ? Please tell me to mind my own business if necessary. As mentioned earlier my interest comes from being a school teacher.

No it was as an adult. I was treated by a psychologist, referred to them by my GP so it was all NHS.

We worked through parts of this: Centre for Clinical Interventions which, although it’s Australian based is NHS approved. It was really useful and helped me a lot.